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Why Can't We Have Nice Things?

  • 16-04-2024 10:35am
    #1
    Bluefoam
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,748 ✭✭✭


    Bus Connects _ I fully support it, but as well as the changes to bus routes, we also need the changes to the road layouts, new junctions, and improved bike lanes.

    Liffey Bus Gates _ Love it, more of this type of thing

    Shared Streets _ A’La Capel St. & Parliament St. are great, least have more

    Dun Laoghaire Living Streets _ Great Concept, lets do more of this

    Coastal Cycle Route _ More please

    Grand Canal Cycleway _ Super!

    Metro _ Long overdue!

    What I can’t understand for the life of me, is why we aren’t in a constant programme of installing Luas lines. Once one is complete, we should have the next one ready to start construction. The N11 & the Malahide road are both perfect examples of roads that would suit a tram… both have high passenger numbers and can’t cope with current traffic levels. We also need a loop line to connect everything up.

    I also can’t believe that one of the worst bottlenecks in Dublin is being developed, the building has been knocked, but they haven’t sorted out the problem with the awkward kink, mystery disappearing bike lane… Instead, they are building a new building to the same footprint as the old one at Kiely’s in Donnybrook… If they’d sorted it out, they could’ve put in a proper bike lane, or even futureproofed the road for a future Luas. By not doing it, they’ve put the city back another century.

    Dublin is struggling to deal with current levels of congestion, let alone the population growth or future increases. We’re fucked!



Comments

  • #2
    Thelonious Monk
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,597 ✭✭✭✭Thelonious Monk


    NIMBYs, short-termism and parish pump politics are probably to blame for most things in this country. there's a train track about 10 meters from where i'm sat now on my couch and if they told me the house needed to go for upgrades i'd accept it as being for the greater good assuming i'd be compensated fairly. doesn't seem to be a common stance though.



  • #3
    daheff
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,918 ✭✭✭daheff


    we can't keep putting in Luas systems. theres limited capacity to do this. We should instead be focusing on an underground Metro system in the city (between the canals anyways). There is a cost to it, but ultimately its a longer term benefit to the city. so less faffing about please and just get on with it.



  • #4
    Bluefoam
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,748 ✭✭✭Bluefoam


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122025711#Comment_122025711

    I don't understand the need for a metro between the canals…? I agree if it's coming in from outside the city, but the city centre is small and managable by foot, bike, bus, existing trains and trams. The congestion seem to come from people driving into or driving through the city. We need a more efficient way to get people in and out without using cars…



  • #5
    alentejo
    Registered Users Posts: 938 ✭✭✭alentejo


    I think an underground metro in Dublin would be fantastic. I suspect we need 3 or 4 of them, however I fully accept the cost might be too great. We defo need more Luas Lines - One from the city centre via the Rathmines-Rathgar-Terenure-Templeogue axis would be great. Way too many buses planned on this route



  • #6
    Tenzor07
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,032 ✭✭✭Tenzor07


    Like the Monk says, it's down to a complex and long winded planning system which is probably one of the worst in the western world, you'd need a legal team just to understand the complexity of it all…

    Nothing can be built without a objection that could delay or cancel a project… anything from someone who doesn't like the location of a Bus stop, or doesn't want a tree cut down…

    And I think the cross town underground system will NEVER happen.. the costs would make building the new hospital in St. James' look like a bargain!



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  • #7
    maisie45
    Registered Users Posts: 188 ✭✭maisie45


    well, re your fantasy list as it pertains to Dunlaoghaire Roads…..,

    The Coastal Mobility Route is a white elephant, hardly used at all, if it was the council would be boasting about usage, silence speaks volumes.

    The traffic diverted from this road is now clogging up Tivoli Road, latest proposal is to make Tivoli one way so huge traffic increase in Monkstown farm. If you lived in this area you would have some idea of traffic volumes.

    The Living Streets plan, well, will see if it actually does anything for DL, I doubt it, people avoid driving to the town now and this will increase once the Tivoli Road traffic diversions cause major problems

    If cars and taxis and buses cant get into or out of the town then all that will survive is chain coffee shops.

    Was in Bray recently, no problem driving in or out of the town, loads of parking, the place was hopping from early evening, now I know where people are going.



  • #8
    Bluefoam
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,748 ✭✭✭Bluefoam


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122026015#Comment_122026015

    They are boasting about usage… I saw a post by DLRCC that 20,000 using it per day(?)

    "The Coastal Mobility Route has been shown to have attracted people into the area and allows a wide range of people to use the route for transport as well as recreation purposes.  It is one of the best performing routes in the Dublin region and seems to have been accepted as a positive contribution to the area with most local businesses welcoming it." TU University Study

    https://www.tudublin.ie/research/news/tu-dublin-studies-find-that-the-coastal-mobility-cycle-route-in-dun-laoghaire-has-become-well-established-and-effective.html



  • #9
    bk
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 23,163 Mod ✭✭✭✭bk


    What I can’t understand for the life of me, is why we aren’t in a
    constant programme of installing Luas lines. Once one is complete, we
    should have the next one ready to start construction. The N11 & the
    Malahide road are both perfect examples of roads that would suit a tram…
    both have high passenger numbers and can’t cope with current traffic
    levels. We also need a loop line to connect everything up.

    They seem to be planning to build multiple Luas lines post Metrolink. There is a map of a post 2042 Luas network that includes half a dozen new Luas lines. The reason they aren't currently doing it, is because all the folks who would have traditionally worked on designing new Luas lines are currently working on Metrolink.

    Metrolink is one of the biggest projects in the history of the state and it is sucking up many resources.

    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122025711#Comment_122025711

    Not really, plenty of space for more Luas lines, you just have to decide to prioritise road space for public transport instead of cars.

    It is completely normal for a Dublin sized city to have many tram lines. Take Amsterdam, yes it has 6 Metro lines (really 3 that branch), but it also has 19 tram lines.

    This idea that we should build lots of Metro lines is an idea largely pushed by the motoring industry. It sounds good, a nice sound bite, but they know perfectly well that we can't afford many Metro lines and would take decades to deliver and it would leave the streets above choked by cars.

    Luas lines are much cheaper and quicker to build so can deliver gains much more quickly and create safer and more peaceful streets.

    That isn't to say that we don't need Metrolink or even another 2 Metro lines, but we also need a comprehensive tram network that replaces the core bus routes which are way over capacity.



  • #10
    Strumms
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 26,054 ✭✭✭✭Strumms


    because we don’t do forward planning.

    Like if a football manager got to August… “ shît I don’t have a goalkeeper “….

    You’ve known all along you’ll need one, known all summer, so what’s the excuse !?

    The metro and the lack of it, shows entirely how backarsed backwards the country is, how we have no effective leadership at government level, in any party. That such a significant and needed piece of infrastructure just got and continues to get kicked down the road…..

    Luas has been successful so why were more lines not built ? We don’t have the talent in politics to make it happen is my guess…. The talent or people who care enough beyond forging a lucrative career for themselves…. Nothing will change.

    Second runway at the airport took forever, sports facilities and so on.



  • #11
    the_amazing_raisin
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,142 ✭✭✭✭the_amazing_raisin


    Anyone willing to take a bet that all the current talk of the Metro North is just electioneering and the project will be shelved again as soon as the ballots are cast?

    I'd really love to see it go ahead, but it's been talked about for decades and will be talked about endlessly for decades to come

    "The internet never fails to misremember" - Sebastian Ruiz, aka Frost



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  • #12
    bk
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 23,163 Mod ✭✭✭✭bk


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122026930#Comment_122026930

    No, it is a real project, with a massive project team working on it, hundreds of millions already been spent on it, the railway order is currently progressing through ABP and in parallel contracts and tenders for the project are being worked on. There has actually been teams out doing ground measurements, etc.

    There is always some possibility for something to go badly wrong, once in a lifetime recession, etc. But it is definitely much more then just electioneering.



  • #13
    halfpastneverr
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 114 ✭✭halfpastneverr


    Government ineptitude, Dublin having no autonomy from central government with regards to funding public transport projects, no directly elected mayor with power, ABP and courts effectively taking over planning decisions from local authorities, and good auld fashion nimby-ism where I've seen improved public transport plans being portrayed as everything from an invasion of privacy to increasing crime!

    My favourite nimby-ism is locals in Inchicore were up in arms over cutting down some trees, removing on street parking and small bits of large gardens to facilitate busconnects and a vastly improved bus service. It would 'remove the village feel' they said, the village being a traffic choked car park most of the week. Instead of fighting them, Inchicore will be served by an hourly bus instead once busconnects is implemented, instead of the multiple frequent routes it has and could have had. Bravo!



  • #14
    bk
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 23,163 Mod ✭✭✭✭bk


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122027593#Comment_122027593

    Have you meet our local councillors! At best they are completely useless, at worst they are corrupt. ABP had to be created because of the amount of brown envelope planning decisions that were being made at local level.

    In general local councils are useless at doing anything. Look at roads, they use to be built by local councils, it was a complete disaster, years overruns and way over budget. The national government too over major road building via the NRA now TII and they built a fantastic intercity motorway network in just ten years, on time and on budget.

    DCC have zero interest in removing on street parking to make space for more bus lanes, Luas lines, cycle paths, wider footpaths, as they make money from paid parking. Again it took the national level NTA to tell them cop themselves on and force the removal of on street parking.

    DCC couldn't build a bike lane to save their life. Look at the "new" bike lane on Griffith Avenue, took them 4 years to build a relatively crap cycle lane, not much more then some paint on the ground that was supposed to only take 6 months!

    Look at Fingal County Council doing everything possible to block the development and expansion of Dublin Airport, despite it being of national strategic importance!

    There are some really good people working in local councils, but unfortunately they are hamstrung by local councilors, the only way we get anything done in this country is by national level bodies.



  • #15
    Podge_irl
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 27,571 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122026820#Comment_122026820

    The second runway at the airport was more or less perfectly planned and executed.



  • #16
    KylaDecker
    Registered Users Posts: 7 ✭KylaDecker


    I completely agree with your opinion. Love the idea of Liffey Bus Gates and share your views on the need for more initiatives like this. The Dun Laoghaire Living Streets, Coastal Cycle Route and Grand Canal Cycleway projects are truly remarkable. We must agree that the development of the Luas network is a long-awaited necessity. New Luas lines need to be built to provide more efficient traffic in the city and cope with the problems of congested roads such as the N11 and Malahide Road. And the development of infrastructure for cyclists is not only a concern for comfort, but also a contribution to reducing traffic jams.



  • #17
    the_amazing_raisin
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,142 ✭✭✭✭the_amazing_raisin


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122080024#Comment_122080024

    Cycled into Dublin from Swords last week, gotta say the gaps in the cycle lanes are both hilarious and frustrating

    Somewhere around Santry the cycle path just ends and you're on the road with the cars. It's like the planners just said "okay, we need you to just stop existing for a few kilometres"

    Then going past Santry demesne there's a cycle path painted on one of the worst finished pavements ever. It's amazing we can make lovely smooth roads for the range rovers and force pedestrians and cyclists onto the worst surfaces this side of gravel.

    I'm amazed babies can get any sleep when they're walked in their prams with all the shaking

    I still beat the bus in, was racing a 41c all the way. Despite the hassle I'll probably cycle again the next time I'm heading in

    I cannot understand anyone driving into Dublin these days. I've done it myself a few times and it's just the most horrible way to drive. Walking is literally easier and quicker in the city centre

    "The internet never fails to misremember" - Sebastian Ruiz, aka Frost



  • #18
    magicbastarder
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 50,510 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    Cycled into Dublin from Swords last week, gotta say the gaps in the cycle lanes are both hilarious and frustrating

    any excuse to post this:

    https://www.google.com/maps/@53.4321645,-6.2300131,3a,75y,240.86h,83.14t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sETPVk0kQDVIxACA8pgFmgg!2e0!6shttps:%2F%2Fstreetviewpixels-pa.googleapis.com%2Fv1%2Fthumbnail%3Fpanoid%3DETPVk0kQDVIxACA8pgFmgg%26cb_client%3Dmaps_sv.tactile.gps%26w%3D203%26h%3D100%26yaw%3D30.189672%26pitch%3D0%26thumbfov%3D100!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu

    where that chap is cycling is the sole cycling infrastructure provided just north of the main airport roundabout to carry cyclists between the north of the airport and the city. travelling in both directions. and all pedestrians too…



  • #19
    Tenzor07
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,032 ✭✭✭Tenzor07


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122080264#Comment_122080264

    That route hasn't changed in i'd say at least 25+ years? Have to cross through 3 sets of traffic lights in a couple of hundred metres?

    d1.jpg

    d2.jpg



  • #20
    mikeybhoy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,260 ✭✭✭mikeybhoy


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122027009#Comment_122027009

    I hope your right



  • #21
    bikeman1
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,364 ✭✭✭bikeman1


    The cycle route into town from Swords is truly awful and dangerous. With Fairview - North Strand completing soon, the Swords road will overtake it to be the most dangerous cycle corridor.

    Thankfully the plans are in for a complete redesign. There are easy wins along the way, simple paint jobs, until work commences.



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  • #22
    the_amazing_raisin
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,142 ✭✭✭✭the_amazing_raisin


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122087741#Comment_122087741

    Is there a complete plan that can be viewed online? Or is it just a set of bike paths that may or may not join up?

    I didn't feel the route was particularly dangerous at any point, just unpleasant and annoying through most of Santry and Drumcondra

    "The internet never fails to misremember" - Sebastian Ruiz, aka Frost



  • #23
    LXFlyer
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,151 ✭✭✭✭LXFlyer


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122099443#Comment_122099443

    It’s part of the Swords Core Bus Corridor scheme.

    https://swordsscheme.ie

    Clicking on Volume 1 - General Alignment Drawings will bring you to the technical drawings.



  • #24
    the_amazing_raisin
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,142 ✭✭✭✭the_amazing_raisin


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122100299#Comment_122100299

    Excellent, thanks for that, will have a read later

    Now let's hope it gets built

    "The internet never fails to misremember" - Sebastian Ruiz, aka Frost



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