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"Stealing" things from the public domain

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  • 18-02-2017 1:17am
    #1
    Faint_Floss
    Registered Users Posts: 12 ✭


    Hi all,
    I was wondering on the legality of taking something unowned or discarded, for instance taking rubbish from a bin on the street, would this be legal, as long as the bin isn't locked/has restricted access?
    Tagged:


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    #2
    Mrs OBumble
    Registered Users Posts: 25,689 ✭✭✭✭Mrs OBumble


    Faint_Floss wrote: »
    Hi all,
    I was wondering on the legality of taking something unowned or discarded, for instance taking rubbish from a bin on the street, would this be legal, as long as the bin isn't locked/has restricted access?

    I believe you need a waste collectors oetmit to do it legally.


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    #3
    Samuel T. Cogley
    Registered Users Posts: 10,684 ✭✭✭✭Samuel T. Cogley


    Theft and the word 'stealing' have very specific legal meanings. As does Public domain but putting that aside and the myriad of other offences that might present themselves have a look at this.


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    #4
    Faint_Floss
    Registered Users Posts: 12 ✭Faint_Floss


    "4.—(1) Subject to section 5 , a person is guilty of theft if he or she dishonestly appropriates property without the consent of its owner and with the intention of depriving its owner of it."

    It looks like theft implies there is an owner of the property, if someone disposes something, are they still the legal owner of the item?


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    #5
    Samuel T. Cogley
    Registered Users Posts: 10,684 ✭✭✭✭Samuel T. Cogley


    Faint_Floss wrote: »
    "4.—(1) Subject to section 5 , a person is guilty of theft if he or she dishonestly appropriates property without the consent of its owner and with the intention of depriving its owner of it."

    It looks like theft implies there is an owner of the property, if someone disposes something, are they still the legal owner of the item?

    They're still the owner but:

    (2) For the purposes of this section a person does not appropriate property without the consent of its owner if—

    (a) the person believes that he or she has the owner's consent, or would have the owner's consent if the owner knew of the appropriation of the property and the circumstances in which it was appropriated, or

    Now my wife old undies - you can probably assume I wouldn't consent. That breeze block that I've sneakily stashed at the bottom of the bin that's going to cost me €3 in weight to get lifted, I'd think it's reasonable to assume I'm not going to be too miffed if you wander off with it.

    In addition:

    (4) If at the trial of a person for theft the court or jury, as the case may be has to consider whether the person believed—

    (a) that he or she had not acted dishonestly, or

    (b) that the owner of the property concerned had consented or would have consented to its appropriation, or

    (c) that the owner could not be discovered by taking reasonable steps,


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    #6
    Victor
    Registered Users Posts: 78,259 ✭✭✭✭Victor


    Faint_Floss wrote: »
    It looks like theft implies there is an owner of the property, if someone disposes something, are they still the legal owner of the item?
    Yes. Until such time as the waste collector takes it into their possession.

    There was a case in the last few years where one waste contractor got an injunction against another for stealing the contents of recycling bins.

    "Where there's muck, there's money"


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    #7
    Mrs OBumble
    Registered Users Posts: 25,689 ✭✭✭✭Mrs OBumble


    Victor wrote: »
    Yes. Until such time as the waste collector takes it into their possession.

    And a waste collector in this situation is defined as someone with a waste collection permit.

    Leads the crazy situation where I cannot legally put an unwanted piece of furniture in the street outside my house with a sign saying "free to anyone who wants it" - because if someone takes it away and they don't have a waste permit, they're breaking the law.

    Instead I have to take pictures, advertise on Freecycle et al, and make personal contact with the recipient of my gift. Very inefficient.


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    #8
    Samuel T. Cogley
    Registered Users Posts: 10,684 ✭✭✭✭Samuel T. Cogley


    Mrs OBumble wrote: »
    And a waste collector in this situation is defined as someone with a waste collection permit.

    Leads the crazy situation where I cannot legally put an unwanted piece of furniture in the street outside my house with a sign saying "free to anyone who wants it" - because if someone takes it away and they don't have a waste permit, they're breaking the law.

    Instead I have to take pictures, advertise on Freecycle et al, and make personal contact with the recipient of my gift. Very inefficient.

    Hmmm... given our weather and the prevailing access to the internet, I have to say I disagree. It's far too easy for people to take the mickey with your solution, I'm sad to say.


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    #9
    nuac
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 6,769 Mod ✭✭✭✭nuac


    Mrs OBumble wrote: »
    And a waste collector in this situation is defined as someone with a waste collection permit.

    Leads the crazy situation where I cannot legally put an unwanted piece of furniture in the street outside my house with a sign saying "free to anyone who wants it" - because if someone takes it away and they don't have a waste permit, they're breaking the law.

    Instead I have to take pictures, advertise on Freecycle et al, and make personal contact with the recipient of my gift. Very inefficient.

    The Germans seem to have solved that problem

    I have seen in Germany old furniture, books, TVs etc left on doorsteps for collection by whoever wants them


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    #10
    Victor
    Registered Users Posts: 78,259 ✭✭✭✭Victor


    Mrs OBumble wrote: »
    And a waste collector in this situation is defined as someone with a waste collection permit.

    Leads the crazy situation where I cannot legally put an unwanted piece of furniture in the street outside my house with a sign saying "free to anyone who wants it" - because if someone takes it away and they don't have a waste permit, they're breaking the law.

    Instead I have to take pictures, advertise on Freecycle et al, and make personal contact with the recipient of my gift. Very inefficient.
    Flip side is a friend renovating a house, took off the front door and placed it in the garden. He went inside and within minutes someone was trying to take the door.


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    #11
    Fred Swanson
    Closed Accounts Posts: 21,730 ✭✭✭✭Fred Swanson


    This post has been deleted.


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    #12
    Victor
    Registered Users Posts: 78,259 ✭✭✭✭Victor


    Fred Swanson wrote: »
    This post has been deleted.
    You are responsible for how your waste is disposed of.

    If the third party decides they don't want it after all and chuck, you have responsibilities.


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    #13
    Faint_Floss
    Registered Users Posts: 12 ✭Faint_Floss


    Surely putting up a sign saying "Free to anyone who wants it" constitutes as sufficient consent on the owners behalf?
    My two cents.


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