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Milk Price- Please read Mod note in post #1

delaval

24/6/16

Recently we saw three posters close their accounts over disagreements in the dairy threads. While there is a lot of frustration and discontent with current milk prices and the processing industry, the recent tendency for dairy threads to become tit-for-tat arguments isn’t tolerable for those not involved.

All farming sectors go through difficult periods and during such times there may need to be changes in how threads are moderated.

Dairy threads are going to be more closely monitored and subject to stricter moderation for a while.

To that end we won’t tolerate baiting of posters, constantly reviving old arguments, posters with agendas or crusading for a cause.

Whether it’s discussion of the business or politics of the dairy or other sectors, we expect civility and tolerance toward each other and other opinions as diversity of opinion is needed as a source of different ways of looking at a situation.

"The aim of argument, or of discussion, should not be victory, but progress." - Joseph Joubert

Also please be aware that what you may post as light-hearted banter can be read totally differently by someone adversely affected by the subject matter and evoke a reaction you hadn’t intended.

The ‘Off-Season’ forum, and its anonymous posting, is available for anyone to chat about their situation.

The Mod Team.

I was wondering would it be a help if we posted our milk prices. I would hope that if someone is low that help could be given, on the other hand if high perhaps your tips could help us all.

I would suggest posting your processors base inc Vat for comparison
Post your Nett price for others to help or be helped
I think that solids should be included.
I suggest any seasonal/liquid contract price be excluded or seperated.

I feel that we as farmers do a lot of bitching about processor prices and rightly so IMO. I also feel that we should not worry about it as we can do nothing about base price but we certainly do something about it at farm level.

What do you all think?

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RightTurnClyde

kevthegaff wrote: »

Was talking to a friend who left for glanbia last year, he was saying glanbia are nearly top of milk league while arra were bottom. Jes us couldn't listen to the nonsense any longer, cut him short. 1 month out of 12 and he's blowing like mad. Lot of the "Big Fellas" around here moved. Funny thing the more profitable enterprises seemed to stay

Kev, if you remember last year at the time of the MSA signing, Glanbia were nearly top of the league for the few months before and after. Glanbia seemed very competitive at the time. I told my coop I'd sign if they could guarantee that they'd match Glanbias prices going forward. Glanbia really did seem to be setting the prices that time.

( they did guarantee and have stuck with Glanbias prices since...I didn't sign though)

RightTurnClyde

whelan2 wrote: »

Spoke with a farmer yesterday who didnt sign the msa and moved to strathroy last year, he said the amount of pressure lifted off him mentally is unreal and a better milk price to boot

Wonder would/will Brexit affect Strathroy

mahoney_j

kevthegaff wrote: »

Was talking to a friend who left for glanbia last year, he was saying glanbia are nearly top of milk league while arra were bottom. Jes us couldn't listen to the nonsense any longer, cut him short. 1 month out of 12 and he's blowing like mad. Lot of the "Big Fellas" around here moved. Funny thing the more profitable enterprises seemed to stay

Have a look at kpmg audited figures on the journal Kev .our base price is stronger than glanbias fact at 3.6 and 3.3 .now when a+b_c price is included we are third from bottom of pile ,only dairygold and aurivo are below us .our price based on kg m/s is 3.125 e Glanbia 3.182 euro dsirygold 2.990 euro and take Barryroe at top 3.364 euro .high solids milk to an extent is penalised with us in Arrabawn

Farmer Ed

kevthegaff wrote: »

Was talking to a friend who left for glanbia last year, he was saying glanbia are nearly top of milk league while arra were bottom. Jes us couldn't listen to the nonsense any longer, cut him short. 1 month out of 12 and he's blowing like mad. Lot of the "Big Fellas" around here moved. Funny thing the more profitable enterprises seemed to stay

Any truth in the speculation that some of the guys who left Arrabawn might have left a few bills behind them? I wonder how they are managing for credit now?

mahoney_j

Farmer Ed wrote: »

Any truth in the speculation that some of the guys who left Arrabawn might have left a few bills behind them? I wonder how they are managing for credit now?

Lads yer spouting ****e with accusations like that .how about lads that left dairygold /Glanbia for arra ???.bet some of them left debt but paid it off over time .i know a good few who left for dairygold who still trade with arra ,no issues trade is trade ,business is business

whelan2

The farmer I was talking to yesterday couldn't leave until everything he owed glanbia had been paid. Which took a while

rangler1

whelan2 wrote: »

The farmer I was talking to yesterday couldn't leave until everything he owed glanbia had been paid. Which took a while

Tbf it's the least he might do, glanbia isn't a bank......yet

Farmer Ed

mahoney_j wrote: »

Lads yer spouting ****e with accusations like that .how about lads that left dairygold /Glanbia for arra ???.bet some of them left debt but paid it off over time .i know a good few who left for dairygold who still trade with arra ,no issues trade is trade ,business is business

I didn't suggest everyone who left. But am I not right in saying one of the issues some people had with Arrabawn was that they was an effort made by the co op a while back to tidy up out of control trading accounts? I heard figures of people in 2013 having trading accounts of 100k plus obviously something had to be done to bring that under control. It was reported in the media at the time that some got a bit offended when limits were put on credit.

http://www.agriland.ie/farming-news/arrabawn-will-fight-to-retain-its-milk-pool/

whelan2

rangler1 wrote: »

Tbf it's the least he might do, glanbia isn't a bank......yet

Why would anyone be allowed leave without settling up first

Water John

That's new to me about needing to settle all matters before leaving.
Milk supply to processor is quite separate from trading. Some who have moved continue trading as before.
What you may or may not owe on a trading acc has nothing to do with moving who you supply milk to. Certainly did not apply to any Dairygold/Arrabawn switches.
It is up to each farmer and his trade merchant to settle any accounts. Nothing to do with milk account. There is no charge or lein involved.
Of course everyone has a duty to pay any bills, exhorbitant intererst aside.
In most cases the shares in the coop are a multiple of what might be owed any way.
I even don't see why superlevy should tie one to a processor. This is to be paid down over three years. Stick to that and issue a cheque each year.

People are being walked on and its being endorsed by some.

Farmer Ed

Co op rules are clear. If you have shares in a co op and you leave then the shares should be ofset against anything you owe. The problem arises if the bill is larger than the share value. In that case the co op would have the same right as any other merchant to use what ever means available to collect the debt. What may be a problem now with the 90 days notice to leave, is that a farmer with a trading account could have his milk cheque confiscated for 3 months and then have his shares issued to him as a loan note. Great plan endorsed by Icos to put manners on people wanting to move co ops.

Farmer Ed

rangler1 wrote: »

Tbf it's the least he might do, glanbia isn't a bank......yet

Not sure the minister would agree with you.

Watch: Glanbia details its new advance payment scheme for farmers @agrilandIreland http://www.agriland.ie/farming-news/122393/

atlantic mist

ireland processing facilities only running at 57%, eu average is 70%

our processors wouldnt improve plant inefficiencies as they would have to pay us in line with the rest of europe, that would be a shame all right. If they would stop under cutting prices when exporting/selling it is easily achievable we are leading the charge with new zeland with accepting lower price for milk as they are trying to clear the market of higher producers

Few cents of a difference required to move supply to 365 and maximise processing facilities reduce or hold peak milk, surely the two/three cent difference in milk price paid would justify the millions spent on plant sitting their only being half used whats the capital cost on every liter, plus the effect on local communities and economy providing employment all year round instead of seasonal work, would love to see actual costings not hypothetical

suggestion that peak supplies will be determined by coop shareholding as done in new Zealand at a future point, all about re filling the coop coffers and once against they aim directly at the supplier where does it stop?

kowtow

atlantic mist wrote: »

ireland processing facilities only running at 57%, eu average is 70%
If they would stop under cutting prices when exporting/selling it is easily achievable we are leading the charge with new zeland with accepting lower price for milk as they are trying to clear the market of higher producers

There is the great fallacy of the marginal milk market - you can't take high cost producers out of the market in any real sense, because they still (and always will) have a liquid market to fill. They might well cut back to the extent that they don't produce a surplus, but only for a very short cycle.

It's like trying to put MacDonalds out of business by standing outside giving away free milk shakes -

Dawggone

kowtow wrote: »

It's like trying to put MacDonalds out of business by standing outside giving away free milk shakes -

+1000.

Buford T. Justice XIX

atlantic mist wrote: »

ireland processing facilities only running at 57%, eu average is 70%

our processors wouldnt improve plant inefficiencies as they would have to pay us in line with the rest of europe, that would be a shame all right. If they would stop under cutting prices when exporting/selling it is easily achievable we are leading the charge with new zeland with accepting lower price for milk as they are trying to clear the market of higher producers

Few cents of a difference required to move supply to 365 and maximise processing facilities reduce or hold peak milk, surely the two/three cent difference in milk price paid would justify the millions spent on plant sitting their only being half used whats the capital cost on every liter, plus the effect on local communities and economy providing employment all year round instead of seasonal work, would love to see actual costings not hypothetical

suggestion that peak supplies will be determined by coop shareholding as done in new Zealand at a future point, all about re filling the coop coffers and once against they aim directly at the supplier where does it stop?

Teagasc did an analysis a few years ago on the relative profitabilities of seasonal v year round milk supply.

The most profitable for farmers was seasonal supply and the most profitable for processors was year round supply.

Water John

That makes sense Buford. So should we have seasonal pricing for late Autumn and early Spring?
Lets say a down time of 6/8 weeks for both.

kowtow

Buford T. Justice V wrote: »

Teagasc did an analysis a few years ago on the relative profitabilities of seasonal v year round milk supply.

The most profitable for farmers was seasonal supply and the most profitable for processors was year round supply.

The difference in that report linked above was - I think - 0.5c saving to processors from a flat supply curve, but 1.5c extra cost to producers.

The report - which seemed very objective and common sense to me - highlighted the extreme simplicity with which it's calculations were reached but to me they seemed as good an approach as any.

It does set you thinking about whether the right product mix combined with less seasonal supply, or just a bit more ingenuity along the way, might give us a more robust approach which didn't depend on large scale investments, paid for in advance at top dollar, and only really productive during a short part of the year.

One thing I am increasingly certain of - no matter what the efficiency arguments might be - is that one big factory, or one big processor are the road to ruin where Irish dairy is concerned.

If the extra cost of seasonal capacity for the whole country amounts to only 0.5c / litre, how does that compare with the notional saving of merging the biggest processors?

Buford T. Justice XIX

Water John wrote: »

That makes sense Buford. So should we have seasonal pricing for late Autumn and early Spring?
Lets say a down time of 6/8 weeks for both.

That's the thing. The down time is actually used to upgrade the plant and do any refurbishment required so while it's not productive in terms of drying milk, it is productive in terms of ensuring that peak supply can be processed without major mishap.

It's been a long long time since there was a breakdown in a plant that needed major movement of milk supplies fro processing.

Buford T. Justice XIX

kowtow wrote: »

The difference in that report linked above was - I think - 0.5c saving to processors from a flat supply curve, but 1.5c extra cost to producers.

The report - which seemed very objective and common sense to me - highlighted the extreme simplicity with which it's calculations were reached but to me they seemed as good an approach as any.

It does set you thinking about whether the right product mix combined with less seasonal supply, or just a bit more ingenuity along the way, might give us a more robust approach which didn't depend on large scale investments, paid for in advance at top dollar, and only really productive during a short part of the year.

One thing I am increasingly certain of - no matter what the efficiency arguments might be - is that one big factory, or one big processor are the road to ruin where Irish dairy is concerned.

If the extra cost of seasonal capacity for the whole country amounts to only 0.5c / litre, how does that compare with the notional saving of merging the biggest processors?

That was the argument advanced to merge the regional health boards into one authority and the elimination of duplication.

I wonder how that turned out:D:D:D

kowtow

Buford T. Justice V wrote: »

That was the argument advanced to merge the regional health boards into one authority and the elimination of duplication.

I wonder how that turned out:D:D:D

haha yes, it's the same problem every time.

Health
Compulsory Health Insurance
Water
Endless agricultural levies & quangos

I never understood why Irish radio hosts are willing to talk endlessly about the details / debate the relative merits of all of these innovations & structural reforms without shouting at whichever politician is on:

"BUT WE ARE ALREADY PAYING FOR IT, WHEN DO WE GET A REFUND?"

Water John

Its the merry go round of Irish life and we all just shrug our shoulders.

May be we can get some of those new Inds in the Dail to shout stop.

We are great a running after the wrong problem and easily diverted to it.

Sadly, it costs us in the bottom line.

Farmer Ed

Water John wrote: »

Its the merry go round of Irish life and we all just shrug our shoulders.

May be we can get some of those new Inds in the Dail to shout stop.

We are great a running after the wrong problem and easily diverted to it.

Sadly, it costs us in the bottom line.

To be fair on a more positive note. I read a report somewhere that Shane Ross had a bit of a showdown with Enda when he refused to sign of on a political appointment without the proper procedures being followed. Fair play to Ross, it may well be a more positive than negative thing that people have to be seen to be accountable for this government to last.

kevthegaff

Any hints on prices stabilising this month?

Buford T. Justice XIX

kevthegaff wrote: »

Any hints on prices stabilising this month?

Kerry will probably hold as the AGM is later in the month and it's bad enough having farmers at it without having angry farmers at it:rolleyes:

fepper

Buford T. Justice V wrote: »

Kerry will probably hold as the AGM is later in the month and it's bad enough having farmers at it without having angry farmers at it:rolleyes:

its the kerry coop agm thats on later in this month who dont buy or pay you for your milk

whelan2

Farmer Ed wrote: »

Not sure the minister would agree with you.

Watch: Glanbia details its new advance payment scheme for farmers @agrilandIreland http://www.agriland.ie/farming-news/122393/

Would it not be in Glanbia's best interest to pay an extra cent or 2 per litre rather than spending money on schemes to prolong farmers agony? Is it not supposed to be farmer owned?Agreed on pedigree 6 post wtf was Minister Creed doing being seen to promote these schemes

stanflt

whelan2 wrote: »

Would it not be in Glanbia's best interest to pay an extra cent or 2 per litre rather than spending money on schemes to prolong farmers agony? Is it not supposed to be farmer owned?Agreed on pedigree 6 post wtf was Minister Creed doing being seen to promote these schemes

I'd be very worried about taking part in that scheme- if you take the 2cpl and milk price doesn't recover to 30cpl in 2020 the money will automatically deducted from your milk price- so if you took 2cpl every month from now till then you could realistically be looking at a milk price of 15cpl in 2020

whelan2

stanflt wrote: »

I'd be very worried about taking part in that scheme- if you take the 2cpl and milk price doesn't recover to 30cpl in 2020 the money will automatically deducted from your milk price- so if you took 2cpl every month from now till then you could realistically be looking at a milk price of 15cpl in 2020

Wonder is there much interest in it. Apparently there wil be no repayments this year, so does that mean a crap price for the rest of the year?

stanflt

whelan2 wrote: »

Wonder is there much interest in it. Apparently there wil be no repayments this year, so does that mean a crap price for the rest of the year?

Can you see milk price going over 30cpl base price

Not in the distant future unfortunately