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Squatting in Ireland

um7y1h83ge06nx

I'm curious about the legal situation in Ireland around squatting after reading the case of the squatting Traveller family in Longford. Here's the link:

link

To summarise this family engaged the services of a locksmith where the locksmith helped them gain entry not to their house but to a house that was un-occupied for 2 months and being prepared for another family.

Are the council nor exercising their full legal rights here? They got a High Court eviction action but I'm surprised that they could not just call the Gardai and have them removed and arrested, surely it's trespass at least?

What would happen if I went away for the day or a holiday and came back to find out someone had gained entry to my house and claimed they were squatting?

Not having a rant but just a bit alarmed that something like this can appear to go on without immediate consequences and arrests, so would love to know the legal situation around this. Thanks.

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GavMan

Council probably didn't want to give oxygen to a fire and make a bad situation worse for them.

It's all about PR and image these days and they took the softly softly approach

whippet

GavMan wrote: »

Council probably didn't want to give oxygen to a fire and make a bad situation worse for them.

It's all about PR and image these days and they took the softly softly approach

When you are dealing with a hot topic like homelessness, minorities and children /deletion by mod// you have to be careful how you deal with matters .. As you will feel the wrath of every possible lobby group and bleeding heart leftie in the country.

Personally I would have considered it breaking and entry.

um7y1h83ge06nx

Yeah I would hope you guys are right.

Pity the council felt the need to tread carefully with an issue like this, might just leave them open to copycat incidents in the future.

A relatively expensive option too I would imagine to obtain a High Court eviction action, certainly more so than just calling the Gardaí.

nuac

/Mod//

Whippet
I have taken the liberty of slightly amending your above post

Gatling

This is from a few years back very similar story actually

http://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/squatter-sets-up-home-in-nama-ghost-estate-170799.html

L1011

Gatling wrote: »

This is from a few years back very similar story actually

http://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/squatter-sets-up-home-in-nama-ghost-estate-170799.html

He entered a derelict house and restored it (the judge in that case threw it out as they decided he hadn't intended to commit an offence based on the work done) to a liveable standard while homeless; whereas in this case they've entered a house that was prepared for someone else on the housing list while having a house available to them. I wouldn't consider them particularly similar stories.

Fred Swanson

This post has been deleted.

Claw Hammer

L1011 wrote: »

He entered a derelict house and restored it (the judge in that case threw it out as they decided he hadn't intended to commit an offence based on the work done) to a liveable standard while homeless; whereas in this case they've entered a house that was prepared for someone else on the housing list while having a house available to them. I wouldn't consider them particularly similar stories.

It is very similar. The key issue isin both cases is if they intended to commit an offence after gaining entry. The fact of other accommodation being available is not conclusive. The guards do not want to be caaled out to civil disputes. The council could have thrown them out but would have left themselves open to an injunction application and a case going to the European Court of Human Rights. has the Council ever heard of a house-sitter?

um7y1h83ge06nx

Claw Hammer wrote: »

The guards do not want to be caaled out to civil disputes.

But would this not be a criminal case rather than civil?

I know if I came home some day and found a bunch of people relaxing in my sitting room or kitchen and telling me they weren't leaving I would be less than happy. If the Gardaí told me they couldn't do anything and that it was a civil dispute I'd probably go nuclear and explode.

Fred Swanson

This post has been deleted.

Claw Hammer

Braylee Immense Collarbone wrote: »

But would this not be a criminal case rather than civil?

I know if I came home some day and found a bunch of people relaxing in my sitting room or kitchen and telling me they weren't leaving I would be less than happy. If the Gardaí told me they couldn't do anything and that it was a civil dispute I'd probably go nuclear and explode.

So what if you explode. The guards do not go looking at title deeds and making decisions on a persons right to be in a particular place. Get yourself some good locks.

Mrs OBumble

L1011 wrote: »

... while having a house available to them. I wouldn't consider them particularly similar stories.

I don't condone their action, and would have expected an arrest.

But to say that they have a house available to them is not true, either. They'd been offered a house which was totally unsuitable for small children: surrounded by a car repair business and with no fence between the front of the house and the road.

Claw Hammer

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

I don't condone their action, and would have expected an arrest.

But to say that they have a house available to them is not true, either. They'd been offered a house which was totally unsuitable for small children: surrounded by a car repair business and with no fence between the front of the house and the road.

A person cannot just be arrested. There has to be a warrant for their arrest or they have to be suspected of committing or about to commit certain offences.

um7y1h83ge06nx

Scary stuff then.

A pretty smart move by them to use locksmiths.

If this was to become a new scam I doubt good locks would work as a locksmith would just bypass them.

Although seeing as it is your property you could always "break-in" yourself and reclaim it back. Seems all a bit medieval and un-civilised that it would come to that.

punisher5112

I find it amazing the guy is disabled and not able to read or write but was well able to find a locksmith.

Disabled????????

Disability really has been diluted these days.

It's a sad sad place to be with all this rubbish going on and the parasites can get away with it.

Canadel

Braylee Immense Collarbone wrote: »

Scary stuff then.

A pretty smart move by them to use locksmiths.

If this was to become a new scam I doubt good locks would work as a locksmith would just bypass them.

Although seeing as it is your property you could always "break-in" yourself and reclaim it back. Seems all a bit medieval and un-civilised that it would come to that.

Alarm systems are pretty much vital nowadays.

Though before reading this thread I thought that was just in case of a break in. Not a sit in!

mookishboy

The guy who opened the door was not a locksmith. I saw it happening.

turnikett1

If you squat a premise for 12 years then the property belongs to you. Obviously 12 years is a very long time to squat somewhere so I'm not even sure if an instance of that has ever happened.

If you had a derelict property for years and came back to suddenly find squatters there, you could obviously charge them with suspected vandalism (by breaking in the door) and trespassing, probably a few other charges too. Though legally as far as I know they are allowed to stay until a court verdict has been reached. Though to be honest if the actual landlord of a house came back, found squatters in the house and told them to leave you can be assured that they would leave, after some sort of discussion has taken place. It's generally when the police or banks evict squatters that they resist.

As far as I know there is no real legal consensus on squatting (bar the 12 year rule), and so, it's a very grey area in Ireland. That said, the authorities are very quick to evict squatters and deny them any rights, not that squatters really have any rights here...

I used to squat in Ireland

Fred Swanson

This post has been deleted.

Fred Swanson

This post has been deleted.

4ensic15

turnikett1 wrote: »

If you squat a premise for 12 years then the property belongs to you. Obviously 12 years is a very long time to squat somewhere so I'm not even sure if an instance of that has ever happened.

If you squat you only get the interest of the person you squat against. If there is a lease the squatting against the landlord only starts when the lease runs out. Many people have acquired title on the 12 year rule. The land registry has accepted numerous applications based on a possessory title.

Nomis21

If the legal owner turns up after twelve years, he doesn't get his property back.

It's called 'Adverse possession'.

30 years if it's a building owned by the state.

http://www.cahirsolicitors.com/adverse-possession

4ensic15

Nomis21 wrote: »

If the legal owner turns up after TEN years, he doesn't get his property back.

It's called 'Adverse possession'.

20 years if it's a building owned by the state.

And your source for this?

4ensic15

Nomis21 wrote: »

If the legal owner turns up after twelve years, he doesn't get his property back.

It's called 'Adverse possession'.

30 years if it's a building owned by the state.

http://www.cahirsolicitors.com/adverse-possession

Changed your story now. You are quoting an outline guide. Note that it say that after 12 years the legal owner MAY be unable to recover possession. It also comments that no 2 cases are the same.
You should stick to the day job.

Labarbapostiza

Fred Swanson wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

No, it's a criminal offence for them to be there without consent

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/2002/act/9/section/24/enacted/en/html

Breaking down the door to enter would aggravate the situation but it's still an offence. The 2002 act does seem to have council houses in mind.

Mrs OBumble

mookishboy wrote: »

The guy who opened the door was not a locksmith. I saw it happening.

What is the definition of "locksmith"?

goz83

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

What is the definition of "locksmith"?

noun a person who makes and repairs locks

Massey N

Hi
Just wondering whats the Squatter law situation if someone breaks in /changes locks on a vacant premise
Thanks
M

Samuel T. Cogley

Massey N wrote: »

Hi
Just wondering whats the Squatter law situation if someone breaks in /changes locks on a vacant premise
Thanks
M

It's criminal damage. They won't again AP rights for 12 years.