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RTE rejects Muslims cleric request for prayer

bear1

For once I'm happy with the decision from RTE.
Bad enough having the Angelus still played out but my favourite part of the clerics comment is this:

Expressing disappointment at the decision by RTÉ, Dr Selim said: “In Muslim countries the commencement of the period of fasting and its end is marked with a prayer call chanted through load speakers placed on the top of the minarets. It is also aired through radio and TV channels.”

Yeah. In Muslim countries.
Maybe we should say "sure, as soon as you start blaring the Angelus in Muslim countries then we can".

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Wibbs

Lux23 wrote: »

If we have the angelus, they why not this? Either we do it all or none of them (latter is better for me).

TBH L and while I get your point and would agree with the latter point, I'm not in agreement with this kinda cultural relativism. The angelus is watered down to nothing these days and fine. An alien would be hard pressed to figure what bloody religion it was. Now it's more a local "tradition" of sorts. And while Christianity particularly Catholicism has massively waned in its cultural importance for this country, it held it for 1500 years. Islam, Buddhism, Hinduism, whatever are foreign cultural beliefs* and I have no bones about saying that and I see zero reason to pander to them. Just as I wouldn't expect the Saudis to be cool about cultural beliefs that are foreign to them. Indeed though I consider the place a corrupt little medieval kip, I admire their stones for sticking to their cultural beliefs.

*Judaism has been here for not far off a 1000 years so would get more leeway.

Ush1

stoplooklisten wrote: »

It's the protestants that are up to no good with their bells here.

Why not?

Because it's showing favour towards one religion in a supposedly secular state.

Wibbs

Ush1 wrote: »

Because it's showing favour towards one religion in a supposedly secular state.

Don't like Christmas either I take it?

[Deleted User]

Wibbs wrote: »

Don't like Christmas either I take it?

You know what annoys me? The way that American retailers now refer to the Christmas period as "Holiday".

"New game, coming Holiday 2016" sounds f*cking stupid.

Superhorse

All religion = Cults.

Ush1

bear1 wrote: »

I don't think this is a valid point. It's a predominantly catholic country.

Is it? That's one point and so what? It's supposed to be secular and have a constitution to protect minorities. I don't agree with having the Angelus on RTE by the way, I think the state broadcaster should have no slant on any religion.

bear1 wrote: »

At the end of the day this would never be allowed in a Muslim country (stand to be corrected) and I don't see the reason to have it introduced in a Catholic country.
Besides, the man is a bonafide idiot.
I would prefer to have the Angelus also removed however, if I had to chose between the two...

I thought that wasn't important?

Ush1

Wibbs wrote: »

Don't like Christmas either I take it?

Huh? Do you honestly think Christmas or "Xmas", is a religious festival or a cultural one?

Not sure what that has to do with the Angelus on RTE anyway.

osarusan

Wibbs wrote: »

Don't like Christmas either I take it?

Christmas is about the birth of Santa.

Polo_Mint

I think RTE should replace the Angela's with this every evening

Carlos Orange

I love people getting hot under the collar about the angelus existing.
Maybe when I eventually retire and am home at 6pm it will bother me.
Assuming TV still exists.

9de5q7tsr8u2im

There's some amount of gobsh*ts around on here, its funny how some people would actually welcome muslim prayers on RTE.

Like think about it, do you see muslim countries welcoming the tradition of christmas and easter into their festive calender?
NOT HAPPENING!

Like if we really do allow these muslim traditions openly into our society i don't think paddys day will be around for much long and can be people going to jail for that

bear1

Ush1 wrote: »

Is it? That's one point and so what? It's supposed to be secular and have a constitution to protect minorities. I don't agree with having the Angelus on RTE by the way, I think the state broadcaster should have no slant on any religion.

I thought that wasn't important?

It's a valid point though and I believe the only one needed. There are mosques in Ireland are there not? So that is the constitution upheld.
But a mosque gives them their private spot which effects no one else who doesn't want to be effected by it.
Placing a bloody Muslim prayer on a national broadcaster for all to see is OTT.
What isn't important?
In this case should we also appease all other minorities and have nothing but prayers throughout the day on TV?

Carlos Orange

bear1 wrote: »

In this case should we also appease all other minorities and have nothing but prayers throughout the day on TV?

According to the wikipedia page the Angelus on RTE doesn't actually have any Catholic religious imagery or prayer.

legocrazy505

bear1 wrote: »

It's a valid point though and I believe the only one needed. There are mosques in Ireland are there not? So that is the constitution upheld.
But a mosque gives them their private spot which effects no one else who doesn't want to be effected by it.
Placing a bloody Muslim prayer on a national broadcaster for all to see is OTT.
What isn't important?
In this case should we also appease all other minorities and have nothing but prayers throughout the day on TV?

The poster just said they're secular and don't want the state broadcaster to have any bias towards a religion (that should include Christianity). So your whole post is basically putting words in their mouth after they just told you they're secular.

[Deleted User]

LuckyDude12 wrote: »

There's some amount of gobsh*ts around on here, its funny how some people would actually welcome muslim prayers on RTE.

Like think about it, do you see muslim countries welcoming the tradition of christmas and easter into their festive calender?
NOT HAPPENING!

Like if we really do allow these muslim traditions openly into our society i don't think paddys day will be around for much long and can be people going to jail for that

Like.

bear1

legocrazy505 wrote: »

The poster just said they're secular and don't want the state broadcaster to have any bias towards a religion (that should include Christianity). So your whole post is basically putting words in their mouth after they just told you they're secular.

And how am I putting words in the posters mouth? I was asked a question and I answered

I also said I'd prefer the Angelus not to be aired so I'm in agreement with the OP on this.

Sleepy

Wibbs wrote: »

Judaism has been here for not far off a 1000 years so would get more leeway.

Interesting. Do we fund the mutilation or their children through the HSE? Or allow religious clerics to perform unnecessary surgery?

stoplooklisten

Ush1 wrote: »

Because it's showing favour towards one religion in a supposedly secular state.

Yeah, so what?
I understand the theory. Read my earlier story. What state would you like with emulate? Sweden? Holland? Australia?

MonkieSocks

This should be an Ecumenical matter

RobertKK

The Angelus has been around for several decades at this stage, it is like a part of TV/radio cultural history at this stage.

The Muslim call to prayer has no historical link to Ireland and it's media, and it is not something we should start.

jacksie66

This post has been deleted.

Maireadio

NO religious bell services on the airwaves, not MORE of them, please.

Of course there should be no Muslim televised prayers but that begs the question of why there is ANY televised prayers of ANY religion? Especially as this is not the Catholic Republic of Ireland.

The_Kew_Tour

Ya all for getting rid of all religion on airwaves.

If Catholics need a timer reminder everyday that's their problem.

conorhal

andekwarhola wrote: »

It's an unfortunate byproduct of ideological discourse. People can't let themselves simply come down on a side at a given moment so immediately sit behind discursive shibboleths like 'double standards' as if pointing that out in itself constitutes some sort of radical intellectual position.

Well when you're defending the indefensible, whataboutery is pretty much your only way to avoid painting your argument into a corner.

[Deleted User]

Has anyone ever gone to the Quaran website? You can get the verses called out to you and, better yet, choose the kind of voice you want. Some sound like they're auditioning for the X-Factor, while others sound like they're pissed off with the whole thing.

Maireadio

bear1 wrote: »

I don't think this is a valid point. It's a predominantly catholic country.
At the end of the day this would never be allowed in a Muslim country (stand to be corrected) and I don't see the reason to have it introduced in a Catholic country.
Besides, the man is a bonafide idiot.
I would prefer to have the Angelus also removed however, if I had to chose between the two...

Ireland isn't a Catholic country though so it's not the same. A high percentage of the population are Catholic but that does not a Catholic country make.

bear1

Maireadio wrote: »

Ireland isn't a Catholic country though so it's not the same. A high percentage of the population are Catholic but that does not a Catholic country make.

So the country isn't catholic but the majority of the population is catholic?

12Phase

Maireadio wrote: »

Ireland isn't a Catholic country though so it's not the same. A high percentage of the population are Catholic but that does not a Catholic country make.

While I would love that to be the case and for Ireland to actually take being a Republic seriously and to be far more secular. It is absolutely not a totally secular state and it is basically de facto catholic.

Take a look at the preamble to the constitution for example:

In the Name of the Most Holy Trinity, from Whom is all authority and to Whom, as our final end, all actions both of men and States must be referred,
We, the people of Éire,
Humbly acknowledging all our obligations to our Divine Lord, Jesus Christ, Who sustained our fathers through centuries of trial,
Gratefully remembering their heroic and unremitting struggle to regain the rightful independence of our Nation,
And seeking to promote the common good, with due observance of Prudence, Justice and Charity, so that the dignity and freedom of the individual may be assured, true social order attained, the unity of our country restored, and concord established with other nations,
Do hereby adopt, enact, and give to ourselves this Constitution.

Prayers in the Oireachtas:

http://www.oireachtas.ie/viewdoc.asp?fn=/documents/a-misc/prayer.htm

Prayer

Direct, we beseech Thee, O Lord, our actions by Thy holy inspirations and carry them on by Thy gracious assistance; that every word and work of ours may always begin from Thee, and by Thee be happily ended; through Christ our Lord. Amen.

The above prayer is said at the commencement of each day's business in the Dáil by the Ceann Comhairle, and in the Seanad by the Clerk of the Seanad.

The fact that about 97% of PUBLIC schools are Catholic.

It's more of a poorly defined, a la carte Republic with large elements of a legacy of having being a de facto corporatist catholic state.

...

It's made great strides towards being a more secular state, but it's certainly not structured like France or the US which are proper republics (even though Americans can be crazily religious their structures are pretty much secular).

It's not that unusual in Europe though. Many countries still technically have state religions, the UK is a fairly extreme example and actually still has 26 bishops of the Church of England forming part of the House of Lords i.e. the upper chamber of the legislature and the head of state and head of the Church of England are on and the same thing.

Ireland's a bit more progressive than that and does guarantee absolute religious freedom, but the state itself is riddled with Catholic influences and insertions.

Masala

...the bold Dr. will be wanting us to stop eating pork next!!!
,,,,and pray 4 times a day.
...and cover our arms on hot days
....and tell our wimem to stay in kitchen and not to speak.

All of a sudden being Catholic is not so bad! LONG LIVE the ANGELUS!

qo2cj1dsne8y4k

No call of prayer.