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Dairy Chit Chat- Please read Mod note in post #1

Timmaay

24/6/16

Recently we saw three posters close their accounts over disagreements in the dairy threads. While there is a lot of frustration and discontent with current milk prices and the processing industry, the recent tendency for dairy threads to become tit-for-tat arguments isn’t tolerable for those not involved.

All farming sectors go through difficult periods and during such times there may need to be changes in how threads are moderated.

Dairy threads are going to be more closely monitored and subject to stricter moderation for a while.

To that end we won’t tolerate baiting of posters, constantly reviving old arguments, posters with agendas or crusading for a cause.

Whether it’s discussion of the business or politics of the dairy or other sectors, we expect civility and tolerance toward each other and other opinions as diversity of opinion is needed as a source of different ways of looking at a situation.

"The aim of argument, or of discussion, should not be victory, but progress." - Joseph Joubert

Also please be aware that what you may post as light-hearted banter can be read totally differently by someone adversely affected by the subject matter and evoke a reaction you hadn’t intended.

The ‘Off-Season’ forum, and its anonymous posting, is available for anyone to chat about their situation.

The Mod Team.

10 away from the 10000 posts! Frazz I think it's fair to say this thread has been a success!

Indeed it was! First thread can be found here- http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056872221

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Comments

Dawggone

Markcheese wrote: »

Dunno how true it is but i've heard that
Its possible to find glyphosate residue in bread, beer, meat and milk, and those that eat them.and thats in germany and france not usa.. not that surprising really when you see how much its used now, pre-harvest spraying of cereals in europe and round-up ready maize and soya and other feed from outside.. its routinely in crops.. so routinely in our guts, probably be 20 years or so till it becomes a health issue in the americas.. and the replacement to glyphosate will be well ready then.. i'll get my (tinfoil ) hat ...

Pre harvest dessication with glyphosate is banned in a good few European countries. It will be getting a total ban in the near future, imho.

darragh_haven

Dawggone wrote: »

Mowing, pre-mowing, or topping?

I presume its mowing. Waste of diesel otherwise

pedigree 6

I was reading tim o Leary's letter in the journal and he took umbrage about bill o keefe's letter last week about him saying do we need to crossbreed now.
Bill o keefe breeds british freisians with high Bf and Pr % and top fertility.

He then goes on to compare research on his own farm saying that in a 10 week breeding season he had 10% empty for the crossbred and 24% for his Holstein.

My own experience here I had 8% empty after a 10 week breeding period with and i'm not going to call them Holstein because everyone thinks of the American show cows. They are not them, they may be black and white but they are now a different breed to Holstein. A good name may be the Irish Friesian.

I buy my stock bulls as calves and the ebi's coming out now for stock is exeptional. The last few years the bulls have had Pr.2 and F.3 and then fert scores of 209 and 206.

You can't lump these in with whatever Holsteins he had on the farm and say they are all that way.
Anyway probably treated all the stock in the same way and it suited the lower producing cows.

But what farmers are milking and breeding now on some (not all some have US and others NZ cows) farms are a different breed of cows.
The dutch have their dutch friesians.
The british have their british fiesians.
And we have our irish friesians.

[Deleted User]

Dawggone wrote: »

Pre harvest dessication with glyphosate is banned in a good few European countries. It will be getting a total ban in the near future, imho.

We do it on places we know needs liquid sunshine under trees/heavy grazed patches etc. Maybe 40 across 1900 acres of cereals and osr last year. Some people baling everything do it all.
On thorium salts one of the chiefs best friends is what you would call stupidly intelligent from Oxbridge types. One day got to the topic. And she said it was the next step as only few took of heat produced with much less waste.

yewtree

Milking a crossbred herd here, base would have been a very milky Holstein herd. I found it very hard to get these cows in calf and fat/protein% were terrible. I started crossbreeding in 2008 and I am very happy with fertility results similar to what was said in the letter. I agree that there are excellent B+W herds that don't need to crossbreed. My problem was the Holstein herd was too extreme and couldn't operate in a spring calving system and using Jersey on these cows fixed the issues of infertility/fat& protein % in one generation.

Timmaay

yewtree wrote: »

Milking a crossbred herd here, base would have been a very milky Holstein herd. I found it very hard to get these cows in calf and fat/protein% were terrible. I started crossbreeding in 2008 and I am very happy with fertility results similar to what was said in the letter. I agree that there are excellent B+W herds that don't need to crossbreed. My problem was the Holstein herd was too extreme and couldn't operate in a spring calving system and using Jersey on these cows fixed the issues of infertility/fat& protein % in one generation.

Used to be that way here and I'd have saved alot of grief if I used JE on anything leggy here 4years ago, but wasnt my choice back then. However I've stuck with the more br fr high EBI B&W, likes of PBM, and alongside plenty of culling the last few years, and as a result I'm fairly close to what I need, this year's heifers in particular had a tough spring, being housed so long after calving, and they all held condition very nicely. I've maybe 20% of the herd with the likes of 1/4 or 1/8th JE now and I think that's as far as I need to go, anything pure leggy gets left to the bull now.

pedigree 6

yewtree wrote: »

Milking a crossbred herd here, base would have been a very milky Holstein herd. I found it very hard to get these cows in calf and fat/protein% were terrible. I started crossbreeding in 2008 and I am very happy with fertility results similar to what was said in the letter. I agree that there are excellent B+W herds that don't need to crossbreed. My problem was the Holstein herd was too extreme and couldn't operate in a spring calving system and using Jersey on these cows fixed the issues of infertility/fat& protein % in one generation.

Years ago we used to have a flying herd.
We've always been a spring herd.
But anyway it used to be a scramble to buy heifer calves in the spring. But the only people usually selling heifers were the Holstein show type breeders and the fertility was terrible of some of these.
They were gone in a few years.
You'd get the few that would last. Then we bought some Monty crosses and they all lasted and we still have some and then offspring from these. Monty purebred are not as fertile but the crossbreeds are. We also had a pb jersey cow who went to 6 lactations but her daughter by a hf went to 12 lactations.
So anyway I stopped buying in as it was hard to get the cows I wanted so I started ai and breeding my own from the earliest calving cows.
Then I wanted to go back to stock bulls but the only bulls for sale were the Holsteins from the show breeders and I wasn't gone on some of the bf bulls.
So that's when I started buying bull calves off commercial high ebi spring breeders who then weren't selling bulls.

If you are are milking holstein all year round and keep carrying over cows and want to go to spring calving crossing to jersey will give you an immediate boost with fertility and solids. No doubt about it.

But what ebi has done is identify the highest fertility, bf and protein stock in the country and breed ai bulls out of them.

yewtree

Timmaay wrote: »

Used to be that way here and I'd have saved alot of grief if I used JE on anything leggy here 4years ago, but wasnt my choice back then. However I've stuck with the more br fr high EBI B&W, likes of PBM, and alongside plenty of culling the last few years, and as a result I'm fairly close to what I need, this year's heifers in particular had a tough spring, being housed so long after calving, and they all held condition very nicely. I've maybe 20% of the herd with the likes of 1/4 or 1/8th JE now and I think that's as far as I need to go, anything pure leggy gets left to the bull now.

pedigree 6 wrote: »

Years ago we used to have a flying herd.
We've always been a spring herd.
But anyway it used to be a scramble to buy heifer calves in the spring. But the only people usually selling heifers were the Holstein show type breeders and the fertility was terrible of some of these.
They were gone in a few years.
You'd get the few that would last. Then we bought some Monty crosses and they all lasted and we still have some and then offspring from these. Monty purebred are not as fertile but the crossbreeds are. We also had a pb jersey cow who went to 6 lactations but her daughter by a hf went to 12 lactations.
So anyway I stopped buying in as it was hard to get the cows I wanted so I started ai and breeding my own from the earliest calving cows.
Then I wanted to go back to stock bulls but the only bulls for sale were the Holsteins from the show breeders and I wasn't gone on some of the bf bulls.
So that's when I started buying bull calves off commercial high ebi spring breeders who then weren't selling bulls.

If you are are milking holstein all year round and keep carrying over cows and want to go to spring calving crossing to jersey will give you an immediate boost with fertility and solids. No doubt about it.

But what ebi has done is identify the highest fertility, bf and protein stock in the country and breed ai bulls out of them.

Agree on EBI made it a lot easier to pick bulls. i don't use as much Jersey anymore as most of the cows have 25-50% jersey in them. the bulls i pick now are probably very similar to what you use Tim (high EBI genomic bulls). I have found its important to keep some size in the cows, have some cows with 75%+ Jersey and they are too small (450 kg). It limits milk solids production, they will only peak at 20-22 litres and % protein/fat are no better than other cows in the herd.

kowtow

pedigree 6 wrote: »

I was reading tim o Leary's letter in the journal and he took umbrage about bill o keefe's letter last week about him saying do we need to crossbreed now.
Bill o keefe breeds british freisians with high Bf and Pr % and top fertility.

He then goes on to compare research on his own farm saying that in a 10 week breeding season he had 10% empty for the crossbred and 24% for his Holstein.

My own experience here I had 8% empty after a 10 week breeding period with and i'm not going to call them Holstein because everyone thinks of the American show cows. They are not them, they may be black and white but they are now a different breed to Holstein. A good name may be the Irish Friesian.

I buy my stock bulls as calves and the ebi's coming out now for stock is exeptional. The last few years the bulls have had Pr.2 and F.3 and then fert scores of 209 and 206.

You can't lump these in with whatever Holsteins he had on the farm and say they are all that way.
Anyway probably treated all the stock in the same way and it suited the lower producing cows.

But what farmers are milking and breeding now on some (not all some have US and others NZ cows) farms are a different breed of cows.
The dutch have their dutch friesians.
The british have their british fiesians.
And we have our irish friesians.

Is it me or is every black and white in Ireland alternately referred to as either HO or FR - particularly when registering calves?

Having assumed my scraggy herd was mainly FR type (if it was anything) ICBF tells me that apart from the bit of MO and RBT I know about it's all a varying % of HO.

Makes the confusing task of picking AI bulls even more confusing, I've resorted to doing it by looks, milk, and calving ease - or occasionally pulling out the Sire catalogue at milking and seeing if the girls have a particular gra for one or the other of them.

I think a defined Irish FR would be a great thing, particularly if someone would explain patiently to me how to tell one from a HO or any other B&W chancer that comes along...

pedigree 6

kowtow wrote: »

Is it me or is every black and white in Ireland alternately referred to as either HO or FR - particularly when registering calves?

Having assumed my scraggy herd was mainly FR type (if it was anything) ICBF tells me that apart from the bit of MO and RBT I know about it's all a varying % of HO.

Makes the confusing task of picking AI bulls even more confusing, I've resorted to doing it by looks, milk, and calving ease - or occasionally pulling out the Sire catalogue at milking and seeing if the girls have a particular gra for one or the other of them.

I think a defined Irish FR would be a great thing, particularly if someone would explain patiently to me how to tell one from a HO or any other B&W chancer that comes along...

Ya even with the bulls I buy it just gives what percentage is either Holstein or friesian.
What the horse board did was give the Irish horse its own studbook and even subsections in that with the traditional Irish horse so you know exactly on the passport what the animal is.

I do know what icbf is at trying to compare proofs from across the breeds.
But if you could give the high ebi black and white that we're breeding now a different name it would avoid confusion with other types/breeds.

Do as in the horses set a breed standard e.g say a cow that calves every 365 days is in.
Has to give so many litres with so much protein and butterfat percentages is in.
Etc, etc.
They are setting up new studbooks and breeds with the horses for sport, why not our cows?

Dawggone

A man called to my house last night accompanied by his wife and son. The son began to explain that he had gotten a job in a local boatbuilder and didn't want to farm. The parents were of retirement age. Farm is for sale.

223ha
Recent buildings less than 15yrs old. Cubicles for 150 cows and rotary parlor.
80ha irrigation.
1.5mill litres milk production rights.
Can be bought lock, stock etc. turnkey

Anyone interested?
I'm off to pop in to see it more out of courtesy than anything because I've no interest in more feckin cows.

RightTurnClyde

Dawggone wrote: »

A man called to my house last night accompanied by his wife and son. The son began to explain that he had gotten a job in a local boatbuilder and didn't want to farm. The parents were of retirement age. Farm is for sale.

223ha
Recent buildings less than 15yrs old. Cubicles for 150 cows and rotary parlor.
80ha irrigation.
1.5mill litres milk production rights.
Can be bought lock, stock etc. turnkey

Anyone interested?
I'm off to pop in to see it more out of courtesy than anything because I've no interest in more feckin cows.

Dawg, is it up on Safer

Milked out

Dawggone wrote: »

A man called to my house last night accompanied by his wife and son. The son began to explain that he had gotten a job in a local boatbuilder and didn't want to farm. The parents were of retirement age. Farm is for sale.

223ha
Recent buildings less than 15yrs old. Cubicles for 150 cows and rotary parlor.
80ha irrigation.
1.5mill litres milk production rights.
Can be bought lock, stock etc. turnkey

Anyone interested?
I'm off to pop in to see it more out of courtesy than anything because I've no interest in more feckin cows.

Cows and all?

kevthegaff

Milked out wrote: »

Cows and all?

How much??

Dawggone

RightTurnClyde wrote: »

Dawg, is it up on Safer

No it isn't, and won't be, as the son will stay on as a 5% shareholder in the company for 3 or more years. That avoids Safer getting their paws on it.

Spent a lovely morning with the family.
Excellent operation and quite profitable.
Everything done to the last...
They grow cereals for seed and have two herds of cows. One Hol herd and one Jersey herd (purebred).
They have a calf to veal operation for about 3.5k calves per year. This is on 5yr rolling contract (upwards only) with an abattoir.
Ebitda never under €450k in the last 9years.
Calf houses were temp controlled.
Dwelling house is a nice old Manoir in top condition. Farm can be bought without dwelling house.
The land is in two lots with an option on a further 127ha belonging to his brother that is retiring next year. Fine farm. Excellent quality land in large workable parcels.

Five full time workers...

Timmaay

Fcuk sake, Dead cow in the paddock with a fresh reseed, clearly from bloat. Not much I could have done, only spotted her by chance passing by with the tractor.

orm0nd

Timmaay wrote:

Fcuk sake, Dead cow in the paddock with a fresh reseed, clearly from bloat. Not much I could have done, only spotted her by chance passing by with the tractor.

Bollix

whelan2

Timmaay wrote: »

Fcuk sake, Dead cow in the paddock with a fresh reseed, clearly from bloat. Not much I could have done, only spotted her by chance passing by with the tractor.

Was she milked this morning

Timmaay

Timmaay wrote: »

Fcuk sake, Dead cow in the paddock with a fresh reseed, clearly from bloat. Not much I could have done, only spotted her by chance passing by with the tractor.

That's 2 cows who should of been culled a month ago but were incalf that the knackery will be taking. Not using estruamate on the culls after putting the bull last yr has proven to be a 1600e mistake. Bollox indeed.

Timmaay

whelan2 wrote: »

Was she milked this morning

She had to have been, in the same paddock as last night but I would defo have noticed her where she was lying.

whelan2

Timmaay wrote: »

She had to have been, in the same paddock as last night but I would defo have noticed her where she was lying.

That's crap. Mine broke out this morning across the yard how they didn't end up on the road I don't know

RightTurnClyde

Dawggone wrote: »

No it isn't, and won't be, as the son will stay on as a 5% shareholder in the company for 3 or more years. That avoids Safer getting their paws on it.

Spent a lovely morning with the family.
Excellent operation and quite profitable.
Everything done to the last...
They grow cereals for seed and have two herds of cows. One Hol herd and one Jersey herd (purebred).
They have a calf to veal operation for about 3.5k calves per year. This is on 5yr rolling contract (upwards only) with an abattoir.
Ebitda never under €450k in the last 9years.
Calf houses were temp controlled.
Dwelling house is a nice old Manoir in top condition. Farm can be bought without dwelling house.
The land is in two lots with an option on a further 127ha belonging to his brother that is retiring next year. Fine farm. Excellent quality land in large workable parcels.

Five full time workers...

Any indication of price including house

RightTurnClyde

Timmaay wrote: »

Fcuk sake, Dead cow in the paddock with a fresh reseed, clearly from bloat. Not much I could have done, only spotted her by chance passing by with the tractor.

Tim, I feel your pain. 9000L cow dropped dead walking across the collecting yard evening milking yesterday. No sign of any illness. She knocked out 24litres yesterday morning. A super cow, sickening

Dawggone

RightTurnClyde wrote: »

Any indication of price including house

I'd say if you offered 5 x ebidta it would be put to bed. No native will touch it.

I'll know for certain next week...

kevthegaff

Timmaay wrote: »

That's 2 cows who should of been culled a month ago but were incalf that the knackery will be taking. Not using estruamate on the culls after putting the bull last yr has proven to be a 1600e mistake. Bollox indeed.

Had a jex cow kept bloating so, sick of giving liquid paraffin and sticking a needle in her, took my 350 from the factory

RightTurnClyde

Dawggone wrote: »

No native will touch it..

Why so?

Milked out

Dawggone wrote: »

RightTurnClyde wrote: »

Any indication of price including house

I'd say if you offered 5 x ebidta it would be put to bed. No native will touch it.

I'll know for certain next week...

No native due to market sentiment or work involved?

Sam Kade

kevthegaff wrote: »

Had a jex cow kept bloating so, sick of giving liquid paraffin and sticking a needle in her, took my 350 from the factory

How do them yokes make so much as calves or maiden heifers when they are worthless as culls?

Dawggone

Milked out wrote: »

No native due to market sentiment or work involved?

Because it would mean that they would have to hire five full time staff...

atlantic mist

Dawggone wrote: »

No it isn't, and won't be, as the son will stay on as a 5% shareholder in the company for 3 or more years. That avoids Safer getting their paws on it.

Spent a lovely morning with the family.
Excellent operation and quite profitable.
Everything done to the last...
They grow cereals for seed and have two herds of cows. One Hol herd and one Jersey herd (purebred).
They have a calf to veal operation for about 3.5k calves per year. This is on 5yr rolling contract (upwards only) with an abattoir.
Ebitda never under €450k in the last 9years.
Calf houses were temp controlled.
Dwelling house is a nice old Manoir in top condition. Farm can be bought without dwelling house.
The land is in two lots with an option on a further 127ha belonging to his brother that is retiring next year. Fine farm. Excellent quality land in large workable parcels.

Five full time workers...

quite profitable why not just get a good manager easily afforded there
are ye bringing back in quotas thou??? can i increase cow no?? jerseys would have to go, is it in pasture or some tillage?? my own house isnt tempurate controlled sure dont need the dwelling could move in with them:)