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STOVES questions and answers here(see mod note in post 1)

paddy147

The amount of threads getting posted each day about stoves is unreal and taking away from other plumbing issues.

Can I suggest to the members and also the mods a dedicated "sticky" thread about stoves and nothing else.

Thanks.:)

Hi Folks. This sticky has been suggested by a regular poster and contributed to quite well. It seems to have generated a lot of interest. While advertising is not permitted under forum charter a balanced view of multiple suppliers is allowed. The rule of thumb is if you are unsure just ask. But keeping it simple and discussing the techanical details of multiple suppliers will be safe. Keep pricing out of the thread and only reply if requested to by PM -Personal message. An instant permant ban will result for breach of charter on advertising.

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Digital Society

Robbie.G wrote: »

You need to remove the fire back to fit the stove and flue.
A flue must not be reduced in size from original

What if original will squeeze through? Can i just slide it in then?

Rented house so removing fireback will be an issue.

limericklad87

Hi guys,

Recently had a stove insert installed but whether I'm imagining it or not I got a smell of smoke in the upstairs bedroom.

Prior to getting the original installer back I'm getting a camera check done for piece of mind. When this new guy called by he first pointed out the lack of a fresh air vent in the room. Am I right in saying this is a legal requirement and secondly should the original installer have ran the 'metal piping" the whole way up the chimney

Robbie.G

Digital Society wrote: »

What if original will squeeze through? Can i just slide it in then?

Rented house so removing fireback will be an issue.

It won't squeeze through as it has to be solid piping for the first 600mm

mrtom

Joe1919 wrote: »

I note your stove has a folded type baffle with a horizontal section. I seen a similar problem with a friends 7 kw Chinese cast iron stove with a similar type baffle arrangement. The stove tended to smoke slightly when adding peat briquettes. But it was very bad when coal was added as the loose coal dust (slack) use to flare up immediately when added to fire and smoke and dust use to bellow out into room.
Anyhow, I note that this problem does not seem to occur on stoves that I am familiar with where the baffle plate is continually at an angle (about 45) even though many of these stove flues are not lined and just feed into ordinary clay chimneys.
So we suspected that the horizontal part of the baffle was directing the smoke forward and outwards into the room. We removed the baffle and replaced it with a square flat piece of 3mm steel plate that was big enough to sit on back of fire plate/brick and reach the retaining lugs at front. This new 'baffle' was now running at 45 degrees approx and had no horizontal bit.
The result was that the stove did not smoke. However, this new baffle is lower and nearer fire and it was noted that the glass and front door gets a lot hotter, so I cannot give a general recommendation for this action. However, in this case the 7kw stove is large compared to room size (13 X 13 feet) and this arrangement seems OK so far, as the stove does not need to be over fueled or driven hard so to speak.

A response from the manufactures:

Sorry to hear of your issue of smoke into the room. Whilst we would class puffs of smoke into the room to be normal on certain installations, a continuous stream is not common on FX5W stoves, in fact almost unheard of.

The only instances we have come across were due to one of two things namely; mis-location of the baffle plate (see below) or lack of flue draught and/or flow.

Please see the image below showing the correct location of the baffle plate:

?ui=2&ik=283999d4ad&view=fimg&th=15499d6b9c2109e9&attid=0.1&disp=emb&attbid=ANGjdJ-pnAZ-msL_mxQuU-PedM8e0eS9BfRn9f9RVyIZn-L60XZU7O7R1QqE7cJjjC7zshH_xKhKQEkldHeYe-HdTXmmi9_ONo1QkncWbOA6PZ-XOVgLhR_NeJyWRrU&sz=w1088-h714&ats=1462872672306&rm=15499d6b9c2109e9&zw&atsh=1

?ui=2&ik=283999d4ad&view=fimg&th=15499d6b9c2109e9&attid=0.1&disp=emb&attbid=ANGjdJ-pnAZ-msL_mxQuU-PedM8e0eS9BfRn9f9RVyIZn-L60XZU7O7R1QqE7cJjjC7zshH_xKhKQEkldHeYe-HdTXmmi9_ONo1QkncWbOA6PZ-XOVgLhR_NeJyWRrU&sz=w1088-h714&ats=1462872672306&rm=15499d6b9c2109e9&zw&atsh=1

Please make sure that the baffle is the right way around and the right way up and that the small shelf support at the rear is cleaned off properly before re-fitting the plate.

If this is correct and the stove is still smoking then there is only one possible further reason and that is flue draught and flue flow. Whilst a pascal reading of 20 should normally be satisfactory, this is a negative pressure reading and does not give an indication of the actual volume flow. I note that the rear vent outlet is being used and this does require more draught than the top vent for obvious reasons, there being a horizontal take-off from the back of the stove. There may be an obstruction of some kind in the system where the liner has become pinched or blocked in some way or leakage of air into the flue-way and will require further investigation. A good way to confirm this would be to remove the baffle plate from the stove completely before firing on one occasion and if this does not totally eliminate smoke when the door is opened then it confirms that lack of flue flow is the only possible issue. It is not advisable to operate the stove continuously with the baffle plate completely removed but will help identify the issue.

Regards,

Peter
Fireline Technical

Joe1919

mrtom wrote: »

A response from the manufactures:

Sorry to hear of your issue of smoke into the room. Whilst we would class puffs of smoke into the room to be normal on certain installations, a continuous stream is not common on FX5W stoves, in fact almost unheard of.

The only instances we have come across were due to one of two things namely; mis-location of the baffle plate (see below) or lack of flue draught and/or flow.

Please see the image below showing the correct location of the baffle plate:

Please make sure that the baffle is the right way around and the right way up and that the small shelf support at the rear is cleaned off properly before re-fitting the plate.

If this is correct and the stove is still smoking then there is only one possible further reason and that is flue draught and flue flow. Whilst a pascal reading of 20 should normally be satisfactory, this is a negative pressure reading and does not give an indication of the actual volume flow. I note that the rear vent outlet is being used and this does require more draught than the top vent for obvious reasons, there being a horizontal take-off from the back of the stove. There may be an obstruction of some kind in the system where the liner has become pinched or blocked in some way or leakage of air into the flue-way and will require further investigation. A good way to confirm this would be to remove the baffle plate from the stove completely before firing on one occasion and if this does not totally eliminate smoke when the door is opened then it confirms that lack of flue flow is the only possible issue. It is not advisable to operate the stove continuously with the baffle plate completely removed but will help identify the issue.

Regards,

Peter
Fireline Technical

I suppose you should remove the baffle and light fire as suggested by manufacturer to check and report back to them and see what they will do. I am not sure where you should go from there. Would the manufacturer or supplier send someone out to check stove or is this the installers job?
You could try posting problem in 'consumer issues' forum on boards to see whether the stove manufacturer or supplier or installer has an obligation to look after you better here.
Best of luck.

rpmcs

To be honest and to the best of my knowledge any stove sold since September last year has to have a certification done by a independent test body.
Normally they are put in mechanical flue to test and this puts draught between 12 and 20 pascal's and they would not get passed if it didn't operate in this environment .
So I'd be surprised if the company can be pushed to do more if this is the case.
But some company's state there stoves work good with less draught.

So if the shop who you bought stove were willing to swap stove may be your best bet....but it's more as a good will rather than they have too.
The other problem is that even a different stove from a another manufacturer may still have same problem if the problem is with the flue.

So first I would look at having a chimney survey done with camera inspection.

mrtom

rpmcs wrote: »

To be honest and to the best of my knowledge any stove sold since September last year has to have a certification done by a independent test body.
Normally they are put in mechanical flue to test and this puts draught between 12 and 20 pascal's and they would not get passed if it didn't operate in this environment .
So I'd be surprised if the company can be pushed to do more if this is the case.
But some company's state there stoves work good with less draught.

So if the shop who you bought stove were willing to swap stove may be your best bet....but it's more as a good will rather than they have too.
The other problem is that even a different stove from a another manufacturer may still have same problem if the problem is with the flue.

So first I would look at having a chimney survey done with camera inspection.

Good information there. I think this particular stove, FX5W has features like 95% of the front is an opening door and the angled baffle plate directing gases straight outwards which exasperate the issue. All of these features & spec which drew me to it in the first place, The chimney was lined during the install so would a camera be necessary?

Kash

Hello all.

I have a Parkray Consort 15B stove, which I love. Heats water and the radiators. But we're extending our house, and will need 4 more radiators. How/where can I find out how many radiators my stove will support?

Wearb

Kash wrote: »

Hello all.

I have a Parkray Consort 15B stove, which I love. Heats water and the radiators. But we're extending our house, and will need 4 more radiators. How/where can I find out how many radiators my stove will support?

You need to find the boiler output of your stove. Then measure your existing rads and get onto a rad makers site so that you can work out the output of your existing rads. Then you will be able to workout if you have any spare capacity.
In any case, you are unlikely to have all your rads on at the same time.

Kash

Wearb wrote: »

You need to find the boiler output of your stove. Then measure your existing rads and get onto a rad makers site so that you can work out the output of your existing rads. Then you will be able to workout if you have any spare capacity.
In any case, you are unlikely to have all your rads on at the same time.

The output of the stove is 14kw, but only 9 of that goes to the water/rads. Assuming I don't have existing capacity, would simply replacing existing rads with smaller versions (or singles) free up some capacity to use in the new rooms?

Wearb

Putting in smaller rads won't work. If it has been correctly sized in the first place, reducing its size will mean that it will not be able to bring room up to temp.

Cathellen

I have a Stanley lismore stove suppoosed to heat room and radiators. I have it for three years and have been back and forth to stanley trying to get it to work. There is very very litle heat from the stove to the room and the radiators at best are on the upper side of warm...not hot. Stanley are saying it has to be an installation problem I had this checked but having it checked again on their advice. We put plenty of fuel in it . I don't know where the heat is going. The water in the tap is not hot either only warm. i am so dissappointed with it . I have never seen any review from anyone on this stove. Any suggestions what it might be if installation proves ok??

BarryD

Wearb wrote: »

Putting in smaller rads won't work. If it has been correctly sized in the first place, reducing its size will mean that it will not be able to bring room up to temp.

Surely reducing the size of the existing rads may help? Putting in single rather than double etc. There'd be less water circulating then in the existing part of the house, so scope for distributing more to new part. Longer pipe run and circuit though. Though less heat output into existing rooms as you say.

Kash

Wearb wrote: »

If it has been correctly sized in the first place, reducing its size will mean that it will not be able to bring room up to temp.

That's the thing, I don't think they have ever been correctly sized - all rads are the same size regardless of the room size, the largest room actually has the only single :rolleyes:

BarryD wrote: »

There'd be less water circulating then in the existing part of the house, so scope for distributing more to new part.

That is my logic too. I'll obviously talk to my plumber, but I like to know a little about the topic before I jump in.

Wearb

That is totally flawed logic. Yes there will be less water circulating, but then there will be less heat distributed. If what you are saying was correct, we could all halve the size of our rads without any consequences.

BarryD

Wearb wrote: »

That is totally flawed logic. Yes there will be less water circulating, but then there will be less heat distributed. If what you are saying was correct, we could all halve the size of our rads without any consequences.

Not really if I follow the poster correctly - if he has say x litres circulating around his present system and he reduces the sizes of his present rads and inserts new ones to bring it back up to x litres, then little is lost except in the longer pipe runs? Sure, he'll have less heat output to his present rooms for the amount of fuel that he's burning up to now but that seems to be accepted.

Wearb

Have it your own way then. I am not going to get into the finer details of it all. Agree in one sentence, disagree in another. Whole paragraph is too confusing for me.

BarryD

Sure, what it hinges on I guess, is whether the original installer figured out the heat required to heat the present rooms to a certain temperature and sized stove boiler etc to suit? Poster seems to think not, who knows. I'm sure they'll get good advice before proceeding. He/ she could also improve insulation, draught proofing in existing rooms so they require less heat output too.

Kash

The original owners of this house painted around their furniture rather than move it, and everything is sited strangely (light switches on far walls rather than near the door etc.) so my faith in anything being planned properly is not very high

We have since improved insulation and so on, but as our new extension is in progress, I need to make a call on whether we put radiators linked up to the existing system in each room, or go with something else. The existing radiators only heat half way down in any case, so I'll have to see what the plumber says.

The Last Beep

I'm currently having a chimney breast opened up to make room for a Henley Cambridge 7.5kW free standing stove. My original plan was to put in bricks behind he stove and down the two sides and then have wooden beam as the mantle above the stove. Obviously I had in my mind that with the beam being combustible material I need certain clearance from the top of the stove to it but today the installers have said that they wouldn't install a stove if here was a wooden beam there at all.

That makes sense to me and I'm happy to try and find a stone alternative but I'd now concerned about how clearance I need to leave all around the stove, would anyone have experience with this and know what the recommendations are or clearance at sides, back and above to non-combustible materials?

Joe1919

The Last Beep wrote: »

I'm currently having a chimney breast opened up to make room for a Henley Cambridge 7.5kW free standing stove. My original plan was to put in bricks behind he stove and down the two sides and then have wooden beam as the mantle above the stove. Obviously I had in my mind that with the beam being combustible material I need certain clearance from the top of the stove to it but today the installers have said that they wouldn't install a stove if here was a wooden beam there at all.

That makes sense to me and I'm happy to try and find a stone alternative but I'd now concerned about how clearance I need to leave all around the stove, would anyone have experience with this and know what the recommendations are or clearance at sides, back and above to non-combustible materials?

There is a general minimum clearance recommendation for non-boiler stoves of 150mm (6 inches) at sides and top, and 50mm (2 inches) at rear from non-combustibles (solid stone , brick, concrete block etc.) materials that are at least 75mm (3 inches) thick.

A greater clearance is desirable (imo), especially on top, to allow more heat to get away from stove and into room, as the top and sides of the stove get very hot and radiate a lot of heat, especially when burning coal.

rpmcs

Not correct.
Building regs say minimum to combustibles (ie wooden beam)
Is 300mm or if manufacturer recommends greater to use higher distance.
So for instance if your stove has been tested to have timber closer ...say 250mm ...by manufacturer in certifications in testing,
you still have to adhere to building regs of 300 mm.

But say stove certification says 450mm
Well then you have to go to this figure to comply with building regs .

Reason for this is simple.

To get CE cert all stove get tested by independent body.
In this testing they measure heat transferred.. (above, sides and back) from stoves .
So a distance stated is when they reach a point away from stove where the temperature does not reach above a certain point.
It's not just plucked out of thin air and should be taken seriously.

So if you put a beam or wooden mantle in below this distance there is a real chance it could get hot enough to go on fire.
And in my opinion not many insurance companys will stand over this, so you may find you invalidate that too if not adhered too.

rpmcs

Just looked at henlys manual for the 7.5 Cambridge and they appear to state 800mm behind to combustibles and 700mm each side...
Don't seem to state above so maybe you
Need them to email you this clearly.

Don't take persons verbal on phone..
Lots of company's will verbally tell you what you want to hear on phone but in email it's more legal.

Just my thoughts anyhoo.

dathi

Joe1919 wrote: »

There is a general minimum clearance recommendation for non-boiler stoves of 150mm (6 inches) at sides and top, and 50mm (2 inches) at rear from non-combustibles (solid stone , brick, concrete block etc.) materials that are at least 75mm (3 inches) thick.

A greater clearance is desirable (imo), especially on top, to allow more heat to get away from stove and into room, as the top and sides of the stove get very hot and radiate a lot of heat, especially when burning coal.

http://www.environ.ie/sites/default/files/migrated-files/en/Publications/DevelopmentandHousing/BuildingStandards/FileDownLoad%2C37240%2Cen.pdf
page 27 its 300mm from top not 150mm

ike

The Last Beep wrote: »

I'm currently having a chimney breast opened up to make room for a Henley Cambridge 7.5kW free standing stove. My original plan was to put in bricks behind he stove and down the two sides and then have wooden beam as the mantle above the stove. Obviously I had in my mind that with the beam being combustible material I need certain clearance from the top of the stove to it but today the installers have said that they wouldn't install a stove if here was a wooden beam there at all.

That makes sense to me and I'm happy to try and find a stone alternative but I'd now concerned about how clearance I need to leave all around the stove, would anyone have experience with this and know what the recommendations are or clearance at sides, back and above to non-combustible materials?

I'm waiting on my builder to come and make a start on ours, So I'd be interest to hear how you got on..

BarraOG

Hi,

I'm looking for a Multi-fuel, Non-boiler 4kW Stove for our sitting room and I'm wondering if a Cassette Stove is a sensible solution. I like the idea of avoiding having to choose and pay for a mantlepiece but I'm wondering if this saving offsets the cost of placing the stove higher up than the current opening:

Cavity dimensions: 50cm(width)*35cm(depth)*82cm(height)

Is it a major operation to relocate the opening? How expensive roughly speaking might it be to install compared to installing an insert or freestanding stove?

Fell free to PM any specific model recommendations as I'm struggling to find 4kW stoves.

Thanks very much,

Barra

gaillimh

Hi.
Anybody got any experience of the Henley Thames slimline 8kwh stove?
Thinking of getting this instead of the Henley Achill 6.6 kWh insert in my sitting room which is 27'6" x 14'9".

Cheers for any opinions

ELBAOS

Hi Guys

Just wondering has any1 any thoughts/reviews on these?? I see alot of reviews against back boilers so trying to decide will i bother with them so!have roughly 15 rads in house but could zone it maybe so the draw from stove wouldn't be as much does that make sense? I wanted double sided to do large open plan kitchen/living area (kitchen 8.5m x4.6 /living area 5.6x4.8). Will have oil central heating along with MHRV.

boru-600b-insert-double-sided-boiler-stove

WOODFIRE RX DS DOUBLE SIDED INSET BOILER STOVES

ELBAOS

meridian74

Hi
I am planning on installing a wood burning stove into a bungalow that should heat an open plan sitting room, dining room and kitchen area an no back boiler. I am looking at the more contemporary designs and have come across the Heritage Belvedere. 15KW output and sold from Right Price Tiles. It seems the most reasonably prices ca€1650-€1700 plus flue etc.
Does anybody have any experience with these stoves? Any alternative recommendations? I have seen Dovre Astroline and Nordpeis Duo 1 as well but more expensive.