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Star Wars: The Force Awakens [** SPOILERS FROM POST 4472 ONWARD **]

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Comments

  • #6362
    Theboinkmaster
    Registered Users Posts: 3,963 ✭✭✭Theboinkmaster


    cowboyBuilder wrote: »
    That's really sad, this industry can really **** up child actors

    George Lucas should give the family some cash to get him treated right.


  • #6363
    david75
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 7,611 ✭✭✭david75


    It wasn't the industry screwed him up. It was years of abuse from Star Wars fans, both on the street and online and just in his everyday life..


  • #6364
    david75
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 7,611 ✭✭✭david75


    Just thinking about what someone said earlier about Finn and buffoonery. If you think about it, he's lived in a military situation his whole life and isn't a clone. So he finally gets to relax and be unregimented and be himself for the first time.


    Just a thought.


  • #6365
    Tony EH
    Registered Users Posts: 18,895 ✭✭✭✭Tony EH


    That was me and it still isn't convincing I'm afraid.

    His whole character is silly though. He's supposed to be kidnapped by the First Order as a child, which means that the First Order has been around over 20 years?

    He then spends his entire life serving as a Stormtrooper in a highly regimented and extremely rigid military system, knowing nothing else but that system.

    But, his "first" mission was on Jakku? A mission where he sees civvies getting killed by his mates and it makes him chuck a wobbler and freak out?

    What the hell did he think the First Order was about for the previous 20 years? What was HE doing for the last 20 years. He can't have been on toilet detail for 2 decades.

    The whole thing is ridiculous and very ill thought out. He's easily the weakest character in film.

    I know it's a bit silly dissecting films such as Star Wars, but it's the little details that count toward maintaining a believable character in a believable world and the Finn character fails.

    That character is a wasted opportunity too. He should have been far more serious and very conflicted, given what we know of his past. His realisation of what the First Order were about and his turning to the resistance should have had more of an oomph. But what happens is that he sees Stormtrooper Steve die and a few civilians get killed, he flips out, takes off his helmet and starts cracking jokes.

    This isn't a go at John Boyega. He does ok with what he's got. It's more to do with the writing and direction. He's simply there for unneeded comic relief, because these days it has to be jammed into everything. And frankly, that kind of stuff is best left to Han and Chewie.


  • #6366
    NIMAN
    Registered Users Posts: 32,951 ✭✭✭✭NIMAN


    Can I ask all you SW experts a question re: VIII?

    I was looking at the images of the 'stars' coming into Belfast for the filming down my neck of the woods this weekend just passed, and I seen Luke, Rey and Kylo and this other guy. I had never seen him before and later found out he was the director!

    I had to look him up in IMDB and his record to date isn't exactly filled with big films or anything, so my big question is what has he done to be granted the prestige of directing SW 8 & 9?


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  • #6367
    Chain Smoker
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,484 ✭✭✭Chain Smoker


    NIMAN wrote: »
    Can I ask all you SW experts a question re: VIII?

    I was looking at the images of the 'stars' coming into Belfast for the filming down my neck of the woods this weekend just passed, and I seen Luke, Rey and Kylo and this other guy. I had never seen him before and later found out he was the director!

    I had to look him up in IMDB and his record to date isn't exactly filled with big films or anything, so my big question is what has he done to be granted the prestige of directing SW 8 & 9?
    He's only directing 8, and considering Colin Trevorrow (Jurassic World) is directing 9, I dunno if he's the one you should be asking questions about.

    He's technically very solid (check out his Breaking Bad episodes, even) and definitely has it in him to make something really good, more so than Abrams. So far his only done original projects, and imo, despite them all being fairly solid works, he's the kind of guy who could benefit hugely from having some restraints.
    I'm a big supporter of hiring Johnson, haven't been a big fan of his previous films but he's the kind of guy who could make something genuinely special here.


    Trevorrow, on the other hand, done a very nice semi-indie flick but has failed to prove himself in any way at all yet.


  • #6368
    johnny_ultimate
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Computer Games Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 29,080 CMod ✭✭✭✭johnny_ultimate


    'Other guy' aka Rian Johnson has established himself, over three films (and a TV series) of increasingly larger scale as somebody capable of telling genre stories with genuine flair and unique twists. He's properly scaled up in his career, as opposed to the unfortunate recent trend of granting young, inexperienced directors the keys to AAA franchises which has yet to pay any real dividends (Treverrow, Gareth Edwards, Josh Trank). I would hope the more gradual progression of Johnson's career to date will manifest itself in a more confident Episode VIII than it would have been with a different director.

    I rewatched Looper again recently, and it filled me with quite a bit of confidence about Johnson's suitability for Star Wars (having previously thought he would have been better off sticking with original features). Looper's a great example of taking a grand, potentially dense sci-Fi concept but not getting weighed down by it. Instead it's honed down to a surprisingly intimate, character driven story that works in harmony with the more epic tale playing out in both the foreground and background. That's precisely what's needed in Episode VIII IMO. The Star Wars universe is vast, but it's always been at its best when focusing on a handful of characters and their place in it. If the sort of storytelling philosophy seen in Looper (and of course Brick and Brothers Bloom too) can be carried over without getting jumbled up in the demands of a franchise blockbuster, Johnson certainly has the capability of turning in something special. He's the boldest, most intriguing choice of director for any Star Wars film yet, a welcome change of pace from the safe hands of Abrams.

    Episode IX, of course, I'm far less optimistic about :pac:


  • #6369
    david75
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 7,611 ✭✭✭david75


    Rian Johnson is also writing 8 and 9 as well as directing 8. I have a whole lot more faith in him that I do Trevrow or whatever his name is. Jurassic world didn't cut it at all.


  • #6370
    Sad Professor
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 22,668 CMod ✭✭✭✭Sad Professor


    Trevorrow and Derek Connolly are writing Episode 9. It was originally reported that Johnson would be contributing a treatment but that doesn't really mean anything. Trevorrow likes to do his own thing. He threw out the script for Jurassic World when he came onboard and re-wrote it weeks before production started.


  • #6371
    david75
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 7,611 ✭✭✭david75


    Sad Professor wrote: »
    Trevorrow and Derek Connolly are writing Episode 9. It was originally reported that Johnson would be contributing a treatment but that doesn't really mean anything. Trevorrow likes to do his own thing. He threw out the script for Jurassic World when he came onboard and re-wrote it weeks before production started.


    You're kidding me. That doesn't inspire confidence at all. JW was awful on just about every level. And he wrote it? Oh god


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  • #6372
    Mr Freeze
    Registered Users Posts: 6,618 ✭✭✭Mr Freeze


    Sad Professor wrote: »
    Trevorrow and Derek Connolly are writing Episode 9. It was originally reported that Johnson would be contributing a treatment but that doesn't really mean anything. Trevorrow likes to do his own thing. He threw out the script for Jurassic World when he came onboard and re-wrote it weeks before production started.

    Not good.


  • #6373
    Sad Professor
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 22,668 CMod ✭✭✭✭Sad Professor


    david75 wrote: »
    You're kidding me. That doesn't inspire confidence at all. JW was awful on just about every level. And he wrote it? Oh god

    In fairness to him, I think he did a good job all things considered. The script for Episode 9 won't be as rushed as JW was. And Disney may be flexible on the release date if they run into problems.

    Based on Safety Not Guaranteed, I think Trevorrow/Connolly are good writers. The big question mark is Trevorrow's directing ability. I'm reluctant to judge him on the basis of JW since I doubt he had much creative freedom on it. I mean, Marc Webb showed a lot of flair in 500 Days of Summer that you won't find in his Spider-Man films.

    Johnson is easy to like. He's made 3 independent films that are very much is own. Had he taken a big budget for-hire gig like Webb and Trevorrow we might feel different about him.


  • #6374
    david75
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 7,611 ✭✭✭david75


    Sorta have the feeling 9 will be a big action film I suppose much like Jedi was in terms of what is it, 3 or 4 battles going on at once? Maybe he's good at that stuff?


  • #6375
    Kidchameleon
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,482 ✭✭✭Kidchameleon


    Anyone is an improvement on Abrams


  • #6376
    aloyisious
    Registered Users Posts: 11,536 ✭✭✭✭aloyisious


    Tony EH wrote: »
    That was me and it still isn't convincing I'm afraid.

    His whole character is silly though. He's supposed to be kidnapped by the First Order as a child, which means that the First Order has been around over 20 years?

    He then spends his entire life serving as a Stormtrooper in a highly regimented and extremely rigid military system, knowing nothing else but that system.

    But, his "first" mission was on Jakku? A mission where he sees civvies getting killed by his mates and it makes him chuck a wobbler and freak out?

    What the hell did he think the First Order was about for the previous 20 years? What was HE doing for the last 20 years. He can't have been on toilet detail for 2 decades.

    The whole thing is ridiculous and very ill thought out. He's easily the weakest character in film.

    I know it's a bit silly dissecting films such as Star Wars, but it's the little details that count toward maintaining a believable character in a believable world and the Finn character fails.

    That character is a wasted opportunity too. He should have been far more serious and very conflicted, given what we know of his past. His realisation of what the First Order were about and his turning to the resistance should have had more of an oomph. But what happens is that he sees Stormtrooper Steve die and a few civilians get killed, he flips out, takes off his helmet and starts cracking jokes.

    This isn't a go at John Boyega. He does ok with what he's got. It's more to do with the writing and direction. He's simply there for unneeded comic relief, because these days it has to be jammed into everything. And frankly, that kind of stuff is best left to Han and Chewie.

    That sound's like combat fatigue, PTSD.


  • #6377
    johnny_ultimate
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Computer Games Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 29,080 CMod ✭✭✭✭johnny_ultimate


    Kidchameleon wrote: »
    Anyone is an improvement on Abrams

    Except, for example, Michael Bay, Brett Ratner, Zack Snyder, Tyler Perry, Chris Columbus, Gore Verbinski, Tim Burton (modern Tim Burton, anyway), Aaron Seltzer, Jason Freidberg, George Lucas, Gavin O'Connor, Jon M Chu, M Night Shyamalan, Bill Condon, Gavin Hood, Tim Story, Kevin Smith, Roland Emmerich, McG, Pitof and the many, many other middling or worse work(wo)men churning out films often devoid of even rudimentary visual/storytelling competence or imagination.

    Did I mention George Lucas?


  • #6378
    Falthyron
    Registered Users Posts: 2,835 ✭✭✭Falthyron


    johnny_ultimate wrote: »
    Except, for example, Michael Bay, Brett Ratner, Zack Snyder, Tyler Perry, Chris Columbus, Gore Verbinski, Tim Burton (modern Tim Burton, anyway), Aaron Seltzer, Jason Freidberg, George Lucas, Gavin O'Connor, Jon M Chu, M Night Shyamalan, Bill Condon, Kevin Smith, Roland Emmerich, McG, Pitof and the many, many other mediocre or worse work(wo)men churning out films often devoid of even basic visual/storytelling competence.

    Did I mention George Lucas?

    You forgot the legendary Uwe Boll. :D


  • #6379
    Frank O. Pinion
    Registered Users Posts: 1,584 ✭✭✭Frank O. Pinion


    johnny_ultimate wrote: »
    the unfortunate recent trend of granting young, inexperienced directors the keys to AAA franchises which has yet to pay any real dividends (Treverrow)
    Is $1.6 billion not a real dividend?


  • #6380
    johnny_ultimate
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Computer Games Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 29,080 CMod ✭✭✭✭johnny_ultimate


    Obviously should have clarified artistic dividends ;)


  • #6381
    Sad Professor
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 22,668 CMod ✭✭✭✭Sad Professor


    In fairness, the system is kinda rigged against these guys. Nolan is the template, but he didn't get complete creative freedom until TDK. And even that was a test to see if they would trust him again. So it took him 3 studio films to gain the artistic freedom needed to make Inception. Had one of three films disappointed, he was screwed and Inception wouldn't have been made.

    As I've suggested before, though, Treverrow seems to have friends in high places. Bird, Spielberg, etc, who seem to rank him very highly. They were pushing him for Episode 7 but Disney weren't having it.


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  • #6382
    johnny_ultimate
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Computer Games Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 29,080 CMod ✭✭✭✭johnny_ultimate


    Yeah I blame the system more than I do the individual directors. Just remains disheartening to see promising young talent turning out bland studio fodder rather than taking the opportunity to scale upwards more gently - although I'm sure the offers they get are too good to refuse.

    But then Hollywood has bested even tried and tested directors. Kim Jee-woon? Ingmar Bergman?


  • #6383
    Kidchameleon
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,482 ✭✭✭Kidchameleon


    johnny_ultimate wrote: »
    Except, for example, Michael Bay, Brett Ratner, Zack Snyder, Tyler Perry, Chris Columbus, Gore Verbinski, Tim Burton (modern Tim Burton, anyway), Aaron Seltzer, Jason Freidberg, George Lucas, Gavin O'Connor, Jon M Chu, M Night Shyamalan, Bill Condon, Gavin Hood, Tim Story, Kevin Smith, Roland Emmerich, McG, Pitof and the many, many other middling or worse work(wo)men churning out films often devoid of even rudimentary visual/storytelling competence or imagination.

    Did I mention George Lucas?

    There is zero imagination on show in TFA, absolutely ZERO!


  • #6384
    david75
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 7,611 ✭✭✭david75


    Kidchameleon wrote: »
    There is zero imagination on show in TFA, absolutely ZERO!

    Millions of Star Wars fans both hardcore and casual seem to disagree with you.


  • #6385
    Kidchameleon
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,482 ✭✭✭Kidchameleon


    david75 wrote: »
    Millions of Star Wars fans both hardcore and casual seem to disagree with you.

    Millions of viewers != good film


  • #6386
    david75
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 7,611 ✭✭✭david75


    Kidchameleon wrote: »
    Millions of viewers != good film


    Gaggle of naysayers = it must be awful!


  • #6387
    Tony EH
    Registered Users Posts: 18,895 ✭✭✭✭Tony EH


    Mr. chameleon does have a point though. While it's a fairly entertaining film (even with its very large flaws), it's completely bereft of any real ideas or imagination. A film that's very much a safe and by the numbers riff on the original Star Wars.


  • #6388
    Myrddin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 33,733 ✭✭✭✭Myrddin


    Tony EH wrote: »
    A film that's very much a safe and by the numbers riff on the original Star Wars.

    After the complete smouldering mess Lucas left the franchise in, I think a safe, by the numbers Star Wars film was exactly what was needed. They've restored the faith of a lot of film, and can now, afford to push the boat out for the remaining two.


  • #6389
    Tony EH
    Registered Users Posts: 18,895 ✭✭✭✭Tony EH


    I don't disagree at all. But I think that that is what's informing a lot of peoples assessment of this film. The fact that this film didn't completely suck donkey balls, like the prequels, allows a ton of people to give it a pass that they wouldn't necessarily do under different circumstances.


  • #6390
    Myrddin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 33,733 ✭✭✭✭Myrddin


    Tony EH wrote: »
    I don't disagree at all. But I think that that is what's informing a lot of peoples assessment of this film. The fact that this film didn't completely suck donkey balls, like the prequels, allows a ton of people to give it a pass that they wouldn't necessarily do under different circumstances.

    So if the prequels were never made, we'd all be a lot more harsh on Ep 7? Hmm, can't say I agree...I enjoyed it for what it was, a thoroughly enjoyable Star Wars romp...just as much as I enjoyed it for setting the record straight. Ok, we can all admit it was damn near a reboot than a sequel, but again, I enjoyed the hell out of it (twice now). Lest we also forget, it's only one part out of a trilogy, so there were more questions raised in it than were answered - I reckon we can really only judge the whole thing after Ep 9


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  • #6391
    david75
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 7,611 ✭✭✭david75


    Just reading that something like 24 people with terminal illnesses all got to see FA up to a month before its release. A Lucasfilm or bad robot employee travelled to each of their homes or hospitals, all over the place, and before the film was shown to them JJ would call them and talk to them and explain a few things and wish them well.


    That's a class act.


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