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Lurker's Log

mbarr

After lurking for the entirety of the mentored novices thread and being consumed by envy in the run-up to DCM and on the day itself I've decided to keep a log in the hopes of getting myself uninjured to the start line of a marathon in 2016.

Background:
Started running in June this year, I had been walking 20-30km around the city every evening as a way of losing weight (went from 95 to 85kg) then started running (85-75kg) with the sole focus of running the Warriors Run. I grew up on the side of Knocknarea, it's always been in my head to get that done at some stage so I figured why not this year?
Absolutely loved running my route through Drumcondra, Glasnevin and the Royal Canal, and began to take in parts of Phoenix Park on my long runs. I knew I was addicted when I made the decision to move to Stoneybatter mainly to be closer to the park. I picked up a drinking injury during the fleadh in Sligo and ended up not making the Warriors Run, but at that stage I had signed up for the race series half marathon and had something to work towards recovering for.

Current state of affairs:
I've ran 3 races and a parkrun since taking up running;
Ransboro 10k (July): 50:06
Knocknarea 8 mile (August): 1:05:48
Race Series Half Marathon (September): 1:48:26
Sligo Parkrun (September): 21:36

Totally all over the place, and all very soft I think.

Training:
I'm currently making it up as I go along, after reading Jack Daniel Running Formula and P&D Advanced Marathoning, and I'm running just over 40 miles a week (6 runs) with a tempo run, intervals and a long run in there. Long run is currently 13 miles.

Plans:
I'm signed up for the Gingerbread half marathon and the Jingle Bells 5k, and I'm planning on running the Rotterdam Marathon in spring. I'm 90% sure I will use the P&D 33-55 miles/week plan to train for this, as I think I need the structure.

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tang1

Ah here Rotterdam/Amsterdam one weekend the Canaries the next, you lucky SOB. Enjoy it, and defo bring the runners.

Younganne

Great Report M and very gutsy performance, especially for a first marathon, you dug dip and got there. all the training paid off..

Enjoy hols and definitely bring the gear, few easy miles in the sun, what could be better!!

Ososlo

That was an epic report and a little bit tear-inducing

Big big congrats to you and I'd take the week off at the very least if I were you. 10-12 days even.... just don't rush it and enjoy the break!

Firedance

Aw Mark, fantastic

well done, your first marathon, where all the lessons are learned

you were brilliant and thank for carrying part of me on the route

Hope the body is ok this week, look forward to catching up with you soon

FIRESTARTER

mbarr

Firedance wrote: »

Aw Mark, fantastic well done, your first marathon, where all the lessons are learned you were brilliant and thank for carrying part of me on the route Hope the body is ok this week, look forward to catching up with you soon

FIRESTARTER

Hehe, I was bopping along to that in my head after going through my insane list of fire related compound nouns!

Been sailing the western Canary islands for the week, tough life! Great for recovery as I've spent very little time on my feet and have been well distracted.
Got my first recovery run done today in Santa Cruz de La Palma, beautiful town but wild hilly. Slowed down to a walk up the hills to keep the heart rate somewhat down and ran the slowest 5k I've ever ran. My legs have been feeling like I grew new ones over the past few days, all soreness and stiffness from the marathon gone. I realised it's the first time since I started running that my legs haven't been sore in some way! Enjoying this recovery lark. Read about the Sligo Way Ultra they're organising this year and thought I'd love to be in a position to do that in a couple of years. New long term goal!

Looking forward to reading the Boston race reports, only managed to tune into the thread at the end to follow the last bit but it sounded horrendous, hope all are recovering well and enjoying the post race atmosphere

mbarr

All quiet on here, I initially was rather proud of how conservatively I was managing my recovery but starting to realise that I've actually given up running as a hobby and taken up drinking heavily instead.

Come to a few realisations since the marathon, as much as I want to it would be silly to run DCM this year. I have a major non-running related goal for the summer, I want to sail around Ireland on my boat, and I can't focus on two things at once. I sat down after Rotterdam and did the math, 4 weeks recovery, 8 weeks 10k training before starting into 18 weeks DCM training. Recipe for disaster I think so not going to do that. Going to target the Warriors run and the race series half, Gingerbread Half in November, basically do the same thing as I did last year! Target a spring marathon and do DCM 2017 with a much better base. Gotta thank Firedance for implanting this germ of sense in my mind!

Firedance

here's another germ of sense.... the London 2017 Ballot opens in the morning!! welcome back

Murph_D

Hard luck, G. You're normally good on the uphill so maybe some wind tunnel training? :pac:

Surprised you didn't pass that guy in km 3, unless you were using him as a shield?

Sounds like better race than time suggests all the same. 5k is so bloody hard to get right.

Younganne

You on the beer mile training Murph:eek:

Murph_D

Oops, how did that happen?

That reply was supposed to be on BG's log!

mbarr

Firedance wrote: »

here's another germ of sense.... the London 2017 Ballot opens in the morning!! welcome back

Done! Fingers crossed

mbarr

Had my first slightly quicker run last night, and a return to my favourite circuit of the park. headed off way too quickly and received a warning stabbing pain in my right ankle after 1k. Stretched it out, slowed down and prayed there'd be no recurrence and luckily the rest of the run was lovely.

11.4k @ 5.22/km

Totally still recovering from the marathon, today is M+25 days I think so another week of easy running after this one and should be ready to transition to some sort of basebuilding plan.

Great to see the 2016 Novices thread starting up! I'm behind on my reading already!

aquinn

Lot of lurkers coming out.

I hope sail training in the Canaries was fun and well prepped for Round Ireland adventure.

mbarr

5 days in a row running last week, 52k in total, same again planned for this week, getting back to some sort of consistency. I'm loving "just running" without worrying about heart rate, pace, plan, etc. It feels great to take on hills rather than back off and try to keep the heart rate in range. One more week of this craic and then I'm going to start that McMillan 10k training(with the focus on working up to 3x2 miles@10k pace)focusing on running under 43 minutes. I ran just under 45 during a tempo run at some stage so sub 43 should hopefully be achievable.

The plan calls for a buildup session every two weeks with some intervals, tempo runs and long runs thrown in there. I'd like to peak at around 80 km a week, long run building to 25km.

snailsong

Good to hear you're enjoying it, that's why we do it.

I reckon you're aiming very low with sub 43. Maybe as the training progresses a more suitable target will suggest itself. Based on your marathon and the progress you've been making, 43 should be easy for you.

mbarr

snailsong wrote: »

Good to hear you're enjoying it, that's why we do it.

I reckon you're aiming very low with sub 43. Maybe as the training progresses a more suitable target will suggest itself. Based on your marathon and the progress you've been making, 43 should be easy for you.

Thanks! To be honest this will be my first phase of "fast" training so I wanted to set something relatively soft, I'm still dreading the first session though! 6X 1 mile @ 6:55 sounds tough enough to me for the moment, even with 3 mins recovery.

snailsong

That MacMillan programme is known to be very tough. If you can't hit all the targets in training it's not necessarily the end. Some people just perform better in races. I think I do.

Firedance

mbarr wrote: »

I'd like to peak at around 80 km a week, long run building to 25km.

The what now? I thought we'd fixed you moved you to miles - there's no going back now!!

That looks like a savage session, tough yes but you'll enjoy it.

mbarr

Firedance wrote: »

The what now? I thought we'd fixed you moved you to miles - there's no going back now!!

That looks like a savage session, tough yes but you'll enjoy it.

I think Rotterdam broke me a bit, I came home thinking in kilometres! I will change back when I'm training for longer than 10ks again but in the meantime I'm going to try to take the opportunity to be bilingual. It's hard though, km paces mean nothing to me as yet. And running mile repeats at a km pace seems odd I guess. I will probably revert to miles after about a week of just being confused.

annapr

mbarr wrote: »

I think Rotterdam broke me a bit, I came home thinking in kilometres! I will change back when I'm training for longer than 10ks again but in the meantime I'm going to try to take the opportunity to be bilingual. It's hard though, km paces mean nothing to me as yet. And running mile repeats at a km pace seems odd I guess. I will probably revert to miles after about a week of just being confused.

the beauty of garmin is that you can program a workout into garmin connect in miles and your watch will convert it to Km's

(or vice versa if you're imperially inclined)

Myles Splitz

mbarr wrote: »

Thanks! To be honest this will be my first phase of "fast" training so I wanted to set something relatively soft, I'm still dreading the first session though! 6X 1 mile @ 6:55 sounds tough enough to me for the moment, even with 3 mins recovery.

The problem with this program is that the faster you are the easier it is paradoxically

Judging by your goal I would amend the plan to actually get you better results

SIMPLE EIGHT-WEEK WORKOUT SEQUENCE FOR A FAST 10K

Week #1: 5 x 1M
3-minute jog between 1M repeats

Week #2: 10-12 x 400m
Run the 400m repeats at 5K race pace; 200m jog between

Week #3: 1.5M + 4 x 1200m
5-minute jog between 1.5M repeats, 3-minute jog between 1200m repeats

Week #4: 3M Tempo Run or 5K Race
One simple prediction method is to double your 5K time and add 1 minute to get your 10K time. Are you on track for your goal 10K time?

Week #5: 2 x 1.5M + 2 x 1200m
5-minute jog between 1.5M repeats, 3-minute jog between 1200m repeats

Week #6: 20-24 x 200m
Run the 200m repeats at 5K race pace; 200m jog between

Week #7: 3 x 1.5M
Run the 1.5M repeats at goal 10K race pace; 5 minutes jog between

Week #8: RACE: 10K

I know it might not seem like you are getting the same benefits but just to show you a comparison I have been training for 10k the last few months and in order to run my sessions as hard as you are I would have to do the following sessions

6x2000m w/ 3 min (I have done 5 but that was one of my tougher sessions late in the plan)
4200m, 4x2000m
2x4200m, 2x2000m
3x4200m

For me If I was to attempt them at the pace and off the recoveries asked I would not make the start line, likewise you would find that even elite Kenyans would find it hard to do those sort of sessions off those recoveries.

Less is more in this case.

snailsong

mbarr wrote: »

I think Rotterdam broke me a bit, I came home thinking in kilometres! I will change back when I'm training for longer than 10ks again but in the meantime I'm going to try to take the opportunity to be bilingual. It's hard though, km paces mean nothing to me as yet. And running mile repeats at a km pace seems odd I guess. I will probably revert to miles after about a week of just being confused.

It makes sense to to think in kilometers if you're training for a 10km race. You get your km pace by dividing the target by 10, and the bit after the decimal point is multiplied by 60 to get the seconds. E.g. For a goal of 43 minutes we have 4.3 minutes per km, that's 4:18. With that in mind it's easy to check your pace with the km markers as you go.

mbarr

Myles Splitz wrote: »

The problem with this program is that the faster you are the easier it is paradoxically

Judging by your goal I would amend the plan to actually get you better results

SIMPLE EIGHT-WEEK WORKOUT SEQUENCE FOR A FAST 10K

Week #1: 5 x 1M
3-minute jog between 1M repeats

Week #2: 10-12 x 400m
Run the 400m repeats at 5K race pace; 200m jog between

Week #3: 1.5M + 4 x 1200m
5-minute jog between 1.5M repeats, 3-minute jog between 1200m repeats

Week #4: 3M Tempo Run or 5K Race
One simple prediction method is to double your 5K time and add 1 minute to get your 10K time. Are you on track for your goal 10K time?

Week #5: 2 x 1.5M + 2 x 1200m
5-minute jog between 1.5M repeats, 3-minute jog between 1200m repeats

Week #6: 20-24 x 200m
Run the 200m repeats at 5K race pace; 200m jog between

Week #7: 3 x 1.5M
Run the 1.5M repeats at goal 10K race pace; 5 minutes jog between

Week #8: RACE: 10K

I know it might not seem like you are getting the same benefits but just to show you a comparison I have been training for 10k the last few months and in order to run my sessions as hard as you are I would have to do the following sessions

6x2000m w/ 3 min (I have done 5 but that was one of my tougher sessions late in the plan)
4200m, 4x2000m
2x4200m, 2x2000m
3x4200m

For me If I was to attempt them at the pace and off the recoveries asked I would not make the start line, likewise you would find that even elite Kenyans would find it hard to do those sort of sessions off those recoveries.

Less is more in this case.

Thank you very much Myles, this makes sense and seems much more realistic, while still scaring me a little bit! Would you recommend a long run and a tempo run weekly in addition to these sessions or just aerobic/steady running?

mbarr

So, I've been ticking along, no goal race in mind at the minute, decided not to do a heavy 10k programme right now, but to keep running 6 days a week mostly steady, and do one 5k interval session per week building up to having a crack at first a sub 21 minute 5k and getting down closer to 20 minutes as the summer progresses.

Finding it difficult to focus on running, reading about running, planning running, however I seem to have no problem getting out for runs so I'll just go with it for the moment. I'm guessing this is probably relatively common after a first marathon.

mbarr

First 5k session last night, it went surprisingly well! Haven't done an interval session in forever, I ran on the bit of path between the castleknock gate and the first roundabout on Chesterfield Ave, every second one was slightly downhill and with the wind and visa versa.
11x400m @goal 5k pace (4:08 min/km)
(99, 93, 96, 95, 99, 96, 97, 94, 96, 89, 93)

really happy with that, especially the last two where I emptied the tank a bit and it felt great. Heart rate hit a new max of 180, previously I'd not seen it go higher than 179.

100m jogged recovery was recommended for this session, for the first few I was jogging that in less than 40 seconds, that just seemed like crazy little recovery so I gradually slowed down to closer to 50 seconds, the last few I walked the recovery in around a minute. I'm sure the short rests were what the session was aiming for but for my first interval session I just wanted to get it done

mbarr

Just registered for the Warriors run, almost forgot about it! Quite excited about it now

Murph_D

Great session there M. Doing the recover as slowly as possible is what it's all about. You were getting there by the end.

Warriors Run - cool.

mbarr

Monday: Random enough pyramid-like progression run, worked out as 2km w/u, 3km MP, 1km @10k, 1km@5k, 6 km alternating between MP and HMP, 0k c/d. Very enjoyable, but really must come up with a plan for my tempo running rather than making it up as I go along.

I was running up the S-bends where the rabbits hang out, and I saw this guy with a rock in his hand running after a rabbit, he lets the rock fly and misses the bunny by about a foot, thank god! Nutjob. When I circled around to the higher bend I could see him running into the hedge there with a hurley in his hand, think he might have been going after the deer!

mbarr

Tuesday: Easy 12.5k
Wednesday: 3 mile w/u, 8x600m @5k pace, 100m jogged recovery.
Did this session over and back on Furze road, uphill and headwind one way. must try to find flatter patches for intervals.
Splits were: 2:26, 2:26, 2:26, 2:30, 2:26, 2:28, 2:23, 2:25
First four jogged recovery amounted to about 40 seconds, rising to closer to a minute on the last few. Pace pretty much in keeping with somewhere between 20 and 21 minute 5k. 600m is getting long enough at this pace to remember that like most people I really, really dislike 5ks.

Murph_D

Foe a man who grew up on the side of a mountain Furze Road should feel pretty flat, I would have thought.

Nice session.