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Child Item

Husband not supporting the family

LegacyUser

I'm really pissed off with my husband at the moment because of money.

We as a couple are broke - him as an individual is not.

We have 2 kids who are in childcare (I work part time so childcare is costing approx 750 a month) and i have a child from a previous relationship who is in secondary school.

My husband is a farmer. I earn 250 a week. We keep our finances separate but have a joint account that we use for bills. My husband pays 1100 into this a month. our mortgage is 600 and 500 is paid for childcare out of this account per month. I pay the remaining 250 childcare out of my own account. The childrens allowance comes into my personal account, I keep about half of my own childs allowance and put the remaining into the joint €355 - this is what we have to pay for food, electricity, bin collection, any extra bills for a month. Its impossible really.

I cant afford to pay anything into the joint account, as i pay the 250 childcare, 40 internet, 30 sky along with my own car insurance, phone bill and anything my child needs school and clothing wise. I have to lodge money into the account when it goes into the red despite not having the money for it really. I paid 2 large bills myself in the last month.

My husband has now said to me that he might not be able to lodge the 1100 next month as he has farm bills that he needs to pay. I'm not sure how he expects us to pay the bills without that. I think he should be putting in more that 1100 - even an extra 100/200 a month would be great. Also I know that he has approx 90 grand in his savings account, where as i have 1000 to my name and owe 1400 on my credit card.....

he was able to buy a new vehicle last month outright...no loans.

I have no idea how to broach the subject with him. It will lead to an argument...

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mud

Write it all down clearly and approach him with a solid idea of exactly how much needs to be in the account.

If you approach him in a matter of fact way then you can both discuss it rationally.

It's a bit mad that he thinks he can just skip out on a month of bills! I'd be making it very clear that that can never happen.

You could suggest cutting down on some of the non-essential bills like the Sky bill maybe? See if there's anything else you could shave off the budget?

As for his savings, are they there as security for anything? The farm or the stock or whatever? You'd never know.

You seem to have been together for a while. Has this situation ever arisen before now?

LegacyUser

its only really an issue since I went back to work after 2nd child. Was out of work for a while and was getting sw. He was still putting the 1100 into the account and we had no childcare bills. The sw was going to run out after a while so I got a pt job. Going back full time didn't make sense as childcare would be 1400 a month so any extra I earned by going full time would just be paying towards that.

It's the cost of chilcare that's crippling us. One child will be getting the free prechool later this year so that might relieve a bit of the pressure.

Giving up work is not an option as there are big costs with my own child and I feel I need to support that child myself. Also I wouldn't like the loss of independence asking my husband for money to buy things for myself (not much really) but I feel I would have to turn down every invite to meeting friends for dinner etc which would get rather embarrassing after a while. (Also not that much, every 3/4 months maybe)

intheclouds

Do you know how much he earns?

Is the farm being run as a business? Is he taking a wage monthly or how does it work?

Is the family home on the farm - is this what the mortgage is on or is the mortgage on the farm?

At a very basic level I think that a married couple need to have joint finances. It makes no sense to have individual finances. You can certainly have spending money each in an individual account but the amount of money that comes into the household each month should be shared.

If you divorced the 90k your husband has saved would be split between you. Its not "his" money.

Why is he not using that money or some of it against the mortgage?

You basically need to draw up a spreadsheet of incomings and outgoings and how the joint account is not covering the needs of the month.

Im more concerned that you feel you cant broach the subject with him or it will be an argument? Why would it be an argument?

StupidLikeAFox

brokemom wrote: »

I have no idea how to broach the subject with him. It will lead to an argument...

Have you ever raised this before? Does he know the situation as it stands? It might be possible that he is lodging the €1,100 and assumes that this is plenty to cover the bills, and has no idea the pressure you are under

DSN

I don't get this - you are in debt 1400 on your CC & he (your husband - you are still together right?) has 90k savings & you don't know what his income is?!
I know with farming there is not a fixed income but you should know the comings & goings of the business or at least make it your business to know - as its legally half yours!

Emme

OP, write down your income and outgoings on a piece of paper or better still a spreadsheet. It might be no harm to talk to MABs about your situation. They might advise on your husband as well.

Does your husband have any land in his name or is the 90K the only security he has? Livestock and farm input costs can be very expensive but if he was able to buy a new vehicle outright last month it's a bit unfair of him to expect you to do without next month. Perhaps he feels he needs the cash cushion because banks are getting very strict with everyone, including farmers.

Some farmers are notoriously tight and secretive about their financial affairs but at least your OH makes a contribution every month. He needs to see how the figures add up and understand you can't do without his contribution even for one month. If you struggle to get by without it one month he might think it's ok not make a contribution another month.

Wesser

Hi broke mum

I think your post is really bizarre, How could you be s married couple and not share every penny? Isn't that what marriage is about. Is this common in marriage? Surely when you got married you discussed sharing all assets and income. Why can't you discuss it with him? How is your relationship
Otherwise? Are you getting on well? I think you need to address the underlying issues here.

Suggest....Pool all the money. Pay the essentials, then savings then the luxuries.

Lu Tze

This is what i would suggest. List the total monthly bills,mortgage, childcare, esb, sky food, child expenses (clothes etc.) etc. This plus 10% or more should go into the joint account every month. The child allowance should be paid into the joint account. Ye should both pay into this account in proportion to what ye earn to make up the remainder required to meet monthly costs + contingency.

Personal expenses should come out of your own accounts, such as phone car etc. Whoever is earning less pays a lower proportion of their income into the joint account, and has a higher proportion of their income for themselves.

As regards the vehicle that was purchased, would I be right in thinking this was farm related? Generally new machinery needs to be bought to run the farm efficiently, it is a business investment without which income from the farm could ultimately suffer.

Things get messy when there isn't a clear line between farm and household accounts. Farms need a lot of investment to continue, especially at the moment with lots of farms expanding to just survive for a few more years. Is it possible the 90k is for farm investment?

The Bishop Basher

Wesser wrote: »

How could you be s married couple and not share every penny? Isn't that what marriage is about. Is this common in marriage?

Not all married couples work that way. Both myself and my wife would be horrified at the thought of putting all our money into a shared pot as it would erode our independence. So yes, while we are a married couple with many shared goals and life choices, we are also still 2 separate individuals with differing priorities, wants, needs etc... and having our own money allows us the space to be that way. Neither of us would change that for anything.

OP - You clearly need to sit down and have an honest chat with him about the household budget. Have a spreadsheet ready with all of your incomings and outgoings and show him the monthly deficit. Then ask him to help you find a way to resolve it.

Myself and my wife work a similar way to you with a shared joint account that we both lodge money into for household bills. If there's not enough to cover the bills we come together to plug the shortfall. If there's a surplus we treat ourselves to a meal out or something.

Bottom line here is that until you sit down and talk, nothing will be resolved and if you can't sit down and discuss this without a major row, then you have other issues that will need to be addressed before this can happen.

intheclouds

Swanner wrote: »

Not all married couples work that way. Both myself and my wife would be horrified at the thought of putting all our money into a shared pot as it would erode our independence.

We dont put our money into a shared pot either but when it comes to doing the monthly budget we equally share the household debt or outgoings. Actually we dont equally share it because I am the higher earner so I pay a pro rata amount more.

But it comes down to notionally adding the income together, paying out the mortgage, bills, financial responsibilities for the month, agreeing an equal figure to save each and then agreeing what is left is split equally as each others personal money.

It is irrelevant that there isnt a joint account, the joint income is used to pay all outgoings and then put each other on an equal financial footing for the month.

It would be pointless (imo) if I said that we both had to contribute equally to the mortgage and outgoings as then he would be left with nothing to save while Id have a surplus. Marriage is about both partners being equal imo.

The Bishop Basher

Absolutely. As the higher earner I would also pay a lot more into the household bills which is only right and fair. We make sure that we both have enough disposable income left over for our own individual pursuits.

Bottom line is that couples have to figure out and agree a system that works for them and follow it up with good communication so that it can be tweaked as necessary when unexpected bills or whatever arise.

It sounds like the OP and her husband are missing the second bit here.

jelenka

I am sorry to read that you are in this situation, I wonder if your husband knows how much pressure you are under and how much exactly things that you pay for cost.
Not all couples have joined accounts and share their money, but the highest earner always would and should pay more - when I was unemployed, my partner ( not married) paid rent and then give me some money towards other expenses ( kids necessities, food etc.) and with sw payment and child benefits I would pay bills, most of the food etc.
I was lucky to get a very well paid job last year, while his job was reduced to casual hours and I then it was my turn to pay for everything.. This is what couples do, make sure to look after each other and their family.
We never argued about who pays what,because with every bill that needed to be paid we discussed it and looked at who would be in the better position to pay it.
Communication is the key here, every month expenses can be different, some bills can come up unexpectedly, especially with kids..
Write down all the expenses and your income, down to every detail and sit him down and explain to him where you need more of his input..
I wish you luck and really hope that you both can work together on this...

LegacyUser

We've done both - started out for years paying set amounts into a joint account and keeping the rest for ourselves in our private accounts. Recently moved to both of us getting paid into our joint account, mainly due to the timing of our monthly wages vs various direct debits - we found we were running out of money at the same time every month, despite moving the dates of DDs around. It's actually more difficult to work out of one account in a way, when you've been used to having the bit of backup in your own account

And yes, giving up the independence like that was a massive leap (for me anyway), it was very hard to deal with initially.

OP you really need to talk this through with your husband. I accept there may be farming expenses, but he really should make it clear to you what expenses are farming and how they are kept separate. And - you are pretty much paying for almost everything. That isn't right. I know in theory you have separate accounts etc, but in practice, you might as well not have. You pay for everything and he contributes something every month, is how it currently looks. You're going to have to talk to him about this (in detail) because you're right, you can't go on like this and bills have to be paid. Unfortunately I think you will just have to have the argument. For what it's worth, finances do cause arguments, even with couples who have the best of communication (especially when kids come along, I've found).

Maybe he needs the argument to take his head out of the sand. You should also try and find out a bit about the farm, what the financial situation is and how the future is looking for it. There's no easy way to approach it though, other than trying to do it when your kids are not around, or maybe in bed. No distractions if possible either.

SusanC10

OP - Please arrange a time and sit down with your Husband. Have your figures done out clearly on a Spreadsheet or similar beforehand. Ask him what he sees as a solution to paying the Bills. And then discuss it.

Did you discuss how you would manage your finances before you got married ?

For us we have pooled our finances since we got married and I am very glad that we did as it has saved us arguments and difficulties throughout the years. We opened our Joint Account when we bought our home but as we were not married at that point we each put a set amount in there. Then when we got married we both arranged to be paid into the Joint Account and from then on we both saw all the money as "Ours". We have had various changes in circumstances since then going from 2 Earners with me earning twice what my Husband did with no kids, through promotions and us both earning roughly the same, 2 unpaid (apart from Mat Benefit) Maternity Leaves, huge childcare costs, pay-cuts, redundancy, another promotion and now with me as a Stay-at-Home Mum and my Husband as the Sole Earner. We could not have gone through all of that if we had to keep count of who paid what when etc.

I also have 2 Friends who both were made redundant approx the same time as me - the first her Husband always told her that they would never share finances and never have a Joint Account and that no matter what happened she would be expected to pay half of all expenses. A large house, 2 kids and a redundancy later and she had to make up the shortfall by borrowing from her parents. They nearly separated due to it all and in the end he decided to employ her in his business to make things work. The second her Husband gives her a not very generous weekly allowance in Cash and she keeps the Children's Allowance and with that she is expected to feed the whole family and cloth herself and the 3 kids and pay for everything to do with the kids activities, school etc as well as put Diesel in the family car. If the money runs out tough and there is no extra provided for Christmas, Birthdays etc.

OP - Communication is key here. Neither of my friends above discussed how finances would be arranged before they were married and had kids. And also you knowing how the farm runs and the finances is important too. Does he know what you earn ? You both should know what the financial pool is and what Bills there are both for the House and the Farm.

Try to talk to him and state at the outset that you do not want an argument and that you want to find a workable solution together.

[Deleted User]

I have to say I wouldn't be a fan of the both salaries paid into a joint account approach, not something I would do after getting married. Joint account that both pay into for mortgage, bills etc is grand and a good idea but I'd much prefer keep control of my own money and my own account rather than pooling it all together every pay day.

The op needs to sit down and discuss with her husband. He is running a business that doesn't have a regular income stream like a salaried job and also one with a lot of expenses. Now I'm not saying he shouldn't be contributing more but it would be good for her to sit down and understand how things are going with the farm and what the income/expenses are like and also let him know how much she is making and that its not very much. He may not fully understand how the household finances are as he is working hard managing the farm finances.

intheclouds

Ethan Gray Harpsichord wrote: »

....but I'd much prefer keep control of my own money and my own account rather than pooling it all together every pay day.

You still can. You just pay an agreed amount into it from the joint account.

[Deleted User]

intheclouds wrote: »

You still can. You just pay an agreed amount into it from the joint account.

I'd far prefer to pay an agreed amount into the joint account from my own personal current account that only my salary goes into where I am the one in total control of the account, much easier to track my own money and spending that way.

I see no reason to have salaries paid into a joint account and I wouldn't agree to it myself. I would be in favour of keeping money separate to a degree even if married. Pay joint things obviously like mortgage, split bills etc but otherwise I'd rather operate separately for most things.

intheclouds

Ethan Gray Harpsichord wrote: »

I'd far prefer to pay an agreed amount into the joint account from my own personal current account that only my salary goes into where I am the one in total control of the account, much easier to track my own money and spending that way.

I see no reason to have salaries paid into a joint account and I wouldn't agree to it myself. I would be in favour of keeping money separate to a degree even if married. Pay joint things obviously like mortgage, split bills etc but otherwise I'd rather operate separately for most things.

Each to their own and all that (I dont have a joint account myself) but certainly when people have children I can see how it would be easier to just pool everything and then there is always going to be money there to cover unexpected expenses.

Im sure there are advantages and disadvantages no matter how the family finances are handled but ultimately the couple have to be able to talk about money without it being the fear of an argument.

And while most in most couples one usually takes on the role of the family "accountant", its important to discuss finances and for each person to have a rough idea of what the usual incomings and outgoings are, and also to have visibility of what each other needs - and agreement on it.

There is no point in me having a very expensive hobby if himself resents the fact that I spend 3 times the amount he does on whatever his hobby or interest is.

There needs to be transparency, openness, and agreed prioritising of shared finances.

Plus - unexpected things happen, sometimes expensive things, cars break down, teeth need root canals etc...

How finances are handled is down to the individual couple, but there should be absolutely no sense of fear that discussing it will cause an argument. Thats implying that the OP is somehow "in the wrong" because she requires more input for the family finances. Which is totally wrong. She isnt a bold child who ran out of money.

[Deleted User]

intheclouds wrote: »

Each to their own and all that (I dont have a joint account myself) but certainly when people have children I can see how it would be easier to just pool everything and then there is always going to be money there to cover unexpected expenses.

Im sure there are advantages and disadvantages no matter how the family finances are handled but ultimately the couple have to be able to talk about money without it being the fear of an argument.

And while most in most couples one usually takes on the role of the family "accountant", its important to discuss finances and for each person to have a rough idea of what the usual incomings and outgoings are, and also to have visibility of what each other needs - and agreement on it.

There is no point in me having a very expensive hobby if himself resents the fact that I spend 3 times the amount he does on whatever his hobby or interest is.

There needs to be transparency, openness, and agreed prioritising of shared finances.

Plus - unexpected things happen, sometimes expensive things, cars break down, teeth need root canals etc...

How finances are handled is down to the individual couple, but there should be absolutely no sense of fear that discussing it will cause an argument. Thats implying that the OP is somehow "in the wrong" because she requires more input for the family finances. Which is totally wrong. She isnt a bold child who ran out of money.

I very much agree on the need for transparency and openness and finances in general should not be a topic that will end in an argument for a couple. In reality it should be an ongoing thing with both people fully informed about money in and money out etc. Of course there will always be an odd thing that people will disagree with the other spending money on but this shouldn't be the norm.

The OP really needs to have a proper sit down conversation with her husband and go over everything in detail.

intheclouds

Ethan Gray Harpsichord wrote: »

In reality it should be an ongoing thing with both people fully informed about money in and money out etc. Of course there will always be an odd thing that people will disagree with the other spending money on but this shouldn't be the norm.

^^ This! Totally this. Ongoing. Definitely.

And of course, minor or occasional disagreements are normal.

Personal circumstances also change which may require a financial revamp. Or sometimes you have to reward each other with a month off saving or whatever.

Communication communication communication.

pgj2015

Broke mom wrote: »

its only really an issue since I went back to work after 2nd child. Was out of work for a while and was getting sw. He was still putting the 1100 into the account and we had no childcare bills. The sw was going to run out after a while so I got a pt job. Going back full time didn't make sense as childcare would be 1400 a month so any extra I earned by going full time would just be paying towards that.

It's the cost of chilcare that's crippling us. One child will be getting the free prechool later this year so that might relieve a bit of the pressure.

Giving up work is not an option as there are big costs with my own child and I feel I need to support that child myself. Also I wouldn't like the loss of independence asking my husband for money to buy things for myself (not much really) but I feel I would have to turn down every invite to meeting friends for dinner etc which would get rather embarrassing after a while. (Also not that much, every 3/4 months maybe)

This jumped out at me op, its up to the two of you to look after all children you have, if ye ever separated your husband would have to provide for you and all children, even if some of your kids are not his biological children, if he has taken your child on as his own before the separation.

Stheno

pgj2015 wrote: »

This jumped out at me op, its up to the two of you to look after all children you have, if ye ever separated your husband would have to provide for you and all children, even if some of your kids are not his biological children, if he has taken your child on as his own before the separation.

Eh no. Unless her husband has adopted her previous child, it's that childs father who has an obligation to pay maintenance.

pgj2015

Stheno wrote: »

Eh no. Unless her husband has adopted her previous child, it's that childs father who has an obligation to pay maintenance.

The husband does not have to adopt the child to be responsible for him/her, as long as he knows he is not the biological father and accepts the child as his own, he is responsible for the child, this is in the scenario that the biological father does not contribute to the child. its neither here nor there anyway, the op is married, it would be different maybe if she was just going out with her husband but when you marry someone and they have a dependent child, you take that child on as well if you are in any way decent.

Lu Tze

There does seem to be theme to many of the posts in here that the fathers is not contributing enough.

The op needs to compile the full list of household expenses and child related costs.

Then look at how it is currently being paid. It may not be as one sided as has been presented currently. The two largest expenses monthly are the mortgage and childcare at €1350. What is on top of that, another €500? Let's round off to €2000 total. He is paying €1100 of this (55‰) .

We do not know his income. The op should know her income though between child allowance and pay. Sit down with these numbers with him and discuss. Decide what should and should not be paid out of the joint account. I personally wouldn't include each others car costs, mobile phone etc. But if included, then both partners bills should be included. If ye can figure out a typical monthly income for him, then divide the joint account contribution with the ratio of your income.

I would suggest also that the childcare allowance goes in to the joint account directly, and pay all child related expenses out of that. And ye make up the difference. This would lessen the proportion you would pay in to the joint account out of the pay you receive from work

Big Bag of Chips

Lu Tze wrote: »

The two largest expenses monthly are the mortgage and childcare at €1350. What is on top of that, another €500? Let's round off to €2000 total. He is paying €1100 of this (55‰)

No disrespect intended Lu Tze, but have you ever sat down and put together a family budget? We get roughly €4000 a month into this house. We have roughly €100 left at the end of the month and we don't have a mortgage or childcare bills. We have a car loan, groceries, internet, phones, 2 cars - so car tax, insurance, diesel and maintenance costs, heating oil, health insurance, bins, tv licence, various activities for children, plus miscellaneous spending, I save €100 a month into the credit union. To think a house can be ran on €2000 a month INCLUDING mortgage and childcare is naive. You cannot take cars or whatever else out of the budget. They are part of the monthly household expenses.

OP, if you and your husband haven't actually sat down together and worked out a monthly budget then you should. As a couple. Not as you telling him, but as a couple sorting out your finances. We had to do it recently when every month we were dipping into our savings and adding to the credit card. Neither of us actually realised where all the money was going. I have started an online spread sheet that we both have access to, and I regularly update it from the online banking to show what is going where. It is obvious to both of us, and both of us realise where we were spending too much, and where we didn't have enough.

I'm going to defend your husband a little bit here and say unless you've sat down and actually discussed it, then he may not understand. I know we couldn't figure out where €4000 a month was going!! If you have a hotmail/outlook/man email address log into outlook.com and you have access to excel online which has budget templates. That's what I use and its certainly helped us get everything under control.

Lu Tze

Big Bag of Chips wrote: »

No disrespect intended Lu Tze, but have you ever sat down and put together a family budget? We get roughly €4000 a month into this house. We have roughly €100 left at the end of the month and we don't have a mortgage or childcare bills. We have a car loan, groceries, internet, phones, 2 cars - so car tax, insurance, diesel and maintenance costs, heating oil, health insurance, bins, tv licence, various activities for children, I save €100 a month into the credit union. To think a house can be ran on €2000 a month INCLUDING mortgage and childcare is naive. You cannot take cars or whatever else out of the budget. They are part of the monthly household expenses.

OP, if you and your husband haven't actually sat down together and worked out a monthly budget then you should. As a couple. Not as you telling him, but as a couple sorting out your finances. We had to do it recently when every month we were dipping into our savings and adding to the credit card. Neither of us actually realised where all the money was going. I have started an online spread sheet that we both have access to, and I regularly update it from the online banking to show what is going where. It is obvious to both of us, and both of us realise where we were spending too much, and where we didn't have enough.

I'm going to defend your husband a little bit here and say unless you've sat down and actually discussed it, then he may not understand. I know we couldn't figure out where €4000 a month was going!! If you have a hotmail/outlook/man email address log into outlook.com and you have access to excel online which has budget templates. That's what I use and its certainly helped us get everything under control.

Yes i have, i track our joint account on a weekly basis. It was the first step in tracking where our outgoing were going and where we could cut back etc. Our outgoings are €2200 a month max, with a much larger mortgage(double) than the op though admittedly no children, but are fixing up the house and furnishing it on that budget as we go.

€3900 a month with no mortgage or childcare? We have all the same bills you noted bar one car, children activities and car loan, but as noted we have a mortgage on top of that. That must be a lot of second car costs and children activities.

Anyways I took 2000 as an example, as we don't know what their outgoings were, that's why the op needs to look at their spending, at least that we agree on

Big Bag of Chips

Groceries alone average about €600 a month, and that's doing the bulk of shopping in Aldi! Children and 2 cars, one of which is not very reliable, ARE a big expense. Car loan is €500 a month. Miscellaneous expenses for children can creep up too. Clothes, shoes, school expenses, outings with different groups they're involved in. Birthday parties, going to and having them! (Edit: plus Doctors visits and medication for 6 people. 3 of whom have on going conditions!)

Everyone's budget will be different and everyone will have different priorities where they spend money. We have enough, we can afford to spend it, so we do.

But unless one person hands over all money and total control of the budget to the other person, then it is only common sense that as a couple you'd need to sit down together, OP. Maybe the arrangement worked reasonably ok for you before, but now circumstances have changed so the arrangement needs to be adjusted. It's worrying that you feel bringing this up will cause a row. Is your husband controlling in any other way?

Sleepy

OP, are you sure you can afford to work?

250 a week works out at 13,000 per year. Subtract your childcare of approximately 9k and you're earning about 4k per year. I'm not sure if it's the same for the self-employed / farmers as it is for us PAYE workers but for 1 income families under PAYE, the employed party can claim about 3.5k in tax credits by registering for joint assessment of tax.

Assuming that 250 a week is your net, rather than gross salary, your family are better off to the grand total of €500 per annum by you working outside of the home. If it's your gross pay, or even just factor in the usual costs that come with employment (maintaining a work wardrobe, work nights out, occasional lunches, take-away coffees etc.), I suspect your job actually costs you money.

Perhaps you could look into turning the high cost of childcare into a positive by becoming a child-minder yourself? The first 10k you earn per annum is tax free. Even assuming you just took on someone else's kids at the same rate / hours as you're paying, you'd be nearly 5k a year better off.

Tigger99

Yes but it might be worth a slight loss in the short term for long term gain in terms of her career and not losing years out of work. It can be a big sacrifice to do so.

Sleepy

250 euro a week wouldn't be typical of a career whose skills get outdated in 5/6 years.

What you're saying is true for some professionals but it woudn't appear to be the case for the OP.