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The Sub 3 Support Thread

--amadeus--

Not sure if this is a viable thread or not....

There tends to be a lot of support for newbies and improver's (the two mentored DCM threads, the Tri Novice thread for example) but less of a community vibe as you move up the pace. I know a lot of us read each others logs but I'll read 10 for every one I comment in and I'm sure others are the same.

And I know that there are a few of us aiming at sub 3 this autumn. I'm taking a crack at it in Amsterdam, Village Runner and Peckham in Berlin, SunGod in Dublin. I'm sure SloggerJogger is going to take another pop at it as well having come so close. And of course we have a lot of runners who have already gone sub 3 (and faster). And the Sub 3 thread on RunnersWorld is very busy and popular.

So here we go - if it works it works, if it sinks it sinks!

And to start - I'm a little concerned about my weekly mileage. This week is pretty poor (I'll be lucky to get mid 30s) and I've been doing 40s for the last couple of weeks with the intention of doing 6 - 8 weeks of 50 - 60 mpw as teh basis of my attempt.

Do you think that's enough? What sort of mileage are you all doing and planning?

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Gavlor

menoscemo wrote: »

Three words I never thought I would hear you advise :P

I was talking to a 3.02 runner (in the pub!) during the week and like me, he's missed the barrier a couple of times. One of the non runners asked me what was the difference between my training for 3.01 & 2.58.

The only thing I could think of was increased mileage. From my perspective it equated to about 15 miles a week. I reckon if he could add in 15 miles then he'll break it, if he can't then he probably won't.

I'm getting wise in my old age!!

ploughon

Hi Gavlor,

thanks for that info. I think you are right about the mileage.

The extra 15 miles...what sort of total mileage a week were you doing and do you have any thoughts on the balance between high intensity and low intensity running for a sub 3?

FBOT01

Gavlor wrote: »

I was talking to a 3.02 runner (in the pub!) during the week and like me, he's missed the barrier a couple of times. One of the non runners asked me what was the difference between my training for 3.01 & 2.58.

The only thing I could think of was increased mileage. From my perspective it equated to about 15 miles a week. I reckon if he could add in 15 miles then he'll break it, if he can't then he probably won't.

I'm getting wise in my old age!!

Does that mean you have dumped the bike and are back pounding the pavement? :P

I am hoping to test your mileage theory at some stage this year. I don't plan to increase my weekly mileage significantly during my marathon cycle but do hope the take advantage of the fact that I will have had 18/24 months of pretty good consistent running at higher average weekly mileage than in the couple of year prior to my Berlin attempt. I'll let you know how it works out for me

Gavlor

FBOT01 wrote: »

Does that mean you have dumped the bike and are back pounding the pavement? :P

I am hoping to test your mileage theory at some stage this year. I don't plan to increase my weekly mileage significantly during my marathon cycle but do hope the take advantage of the fact that I will have had 18/24 months of pretty good consistent running at higher average weekly mileage than in the couple of year prior to my Berlin attempt. I'll let you know how it works out for me

You've some serious work done.... What time will you target??

I'm planning on racing Wexford half and maybe the Viking marathon in Waterford but I'll be doing it from a zero mileage base!

tang1

Gavlor wrote: »

You've some serious work done.... What time will you target??

I'm planning on racing Wexford half and maybe the Viking marathon in Waterford but I'll be doing it from a zero mileage base!

Stay away from the doughnuts so!!

Gavlor

tang1 wrote: »

Stay away from the doughnuts so!!

Tell me about it!

FBOT01

Gavlor wrote: »

You've some serious work done.... What time will you target??

I'm planning on racing Wexford half and maybe the Viking marathon in Waterford but I'll be doing it from a zero mileage base!

You mean I have some serious work still to do....Boston specific training starts Monday and will be basing it on MP in the 06:41 to 06:45 range which will give me between 3 and 5 mins in hand. Not sure Boston is the place to be making a sub 3hr attempt but sure I'll give it a lash and see where I get to. Maybe we'll get a tailwind

Best of luck with Wexford and Waterford. Will be interested to see how it goes off zero base.

ThebitterLemon

I reckon there's enough hobby joggers around here hoping to go sub 3 this year to get this thread going and share some experiences.

I'm gonna give it a lash after a summer cycle of shorter stuff.

Current PB 3.05. Hoping to run pb's over the shorter distances this summer and crack on from there.

Anyone else trying?

TbL

tang1

ThebitterLemon wrote: »

I reckon there's enough hobby joggers around here hoping to go sub 3 this year to get this thread going and share some experiences.

I'm gonna give it a lash after a summer cycle of shorter stuff.

Current PB 3.05. Hoping to run pb's over the shorter distances this summer and crack on from there.

Anyone else trying?

TbL

Tell them all how a 3.24 marathoner handed you your ass over 5k last week!! Best of luck with it C, there's no doubt you have it in you, you just need a few variables to go your way for once.

Dubgal72

tang1 wrote: »

Tell them all how a 3.24 marathoner handed you your ass over 5k last week!! Best of luck with it C, there's no doubt you have it in you, you just need a few variables to go your way for once.

Does this mean no more Where in the World?! :eek: Down with that sort of thing....

martyboy48

ThebitterLemon wrote: »

I reckon there's enough hobby joggers around here hoping to go sub 3 this year to get this thread going and share some experiences.

I'm gonna give it a lash after a summer cycle of shorter stuff.

Current PB 3.05. Hoping to run pb's over the shorter distances this summer and crack on from there.

Anyone else trying?

TbL

What are your current PB's, 5k to HM as a matter of interest??

Sorry, I shouldn't be in this thread, Bulmers74 will be along shortly :pac:

ThebitterLemon

martyboy48 wrote: »

What are your current PB's, 5k to HM as a matter of interest??

Sorry, I shouldn't be in this thread, Bulmers74 will be along shortly :pac:

5k: 19.27
5m: 31 high (I'd need to check)
10k: 39.30
10m: 64 something
Half: 1.25

Why shouldn't you be here Marty, you've definitely got the ability

TbL

snailsong

Good luck with that, lemonhead.
I'd love to see this thread going again. I might post occasionally, but only as an interested observer. Hoping that after one more good cycle I could be an actual contender.

Gavlor

ThebitterLemon wrote: »

I reckon there's enough hobby joggers around here hoping to go sub 3 this year to get this thread going and share some experiences.

I'm gonna give it a lash after a summer cycle of shorter stuff.

Current PB 3.05. Hoping to run pb's over the shorter distances this summer and crack on from there.

Anyone else trying?

TbL

Get your ten mile closer to 60 and hm closer to 80 and you'll have every chance.

Nice to see you nail your colours to the mast, best of luck with it!!

ThebitterLemon

snailsong wrote: »

Good luck with that, lemonhead.
I'd love to see this thread going again. I might post occasionally, but only as an interested observer. Hoping that after one more good cycle I could be an actual contender.

Come on in P.

Like to see what sort of training you're sneaking in. Gotta keep an eye on the other auld lads

Sure you're a contender now after Rotterdam!

Anyone else, it'd be good to see another productive thread getting some traction.

Also be good if some faster lads could post and share experiences.

Also FBOT and AMK could share their o so close stories, although in AMK's case I think it was the mini marathon he ran

TbL

Plodman

I went from a 3:17 pb down to 2:52 in the space of one year. Next year I got down to 2:49. Average weekly mileage was probably 40-50 miles with very few weeks much higher than that. The key for me was consistency; train 6 days per weeks with mostly easy running. Keep the easy days easy and you can push hard on the sessions. Listen to your body too; try to learn the difference between your body telling you to take a break and your mind trying to convince you to take it easy. Not always the same thing!

snailsong

I'm not even sure when I'll run another marathon, let alone attempt sub 3. It's possible I'll run the Clare Burren marathon on May 28 but that would be as a training run for the RAW ultra 50 miler on the Western Way in July which I intend to attempt.

For me, stage one would be getting the half down near 1:25. Currently 1:28. How is your half, C, where is it going?

martyboy48

ThebitterLemon wrote: »

5k: 19.27
5m: 31 high (I'd need to check)
10k: 39.30
10m: 64 something
Half: 1.25

Why shouldn't you be here Marty, you've definitely got the ability

TbL

I'm nowhere close to it boss but it's on the radar long term...

Your times are a lot stronger in the longer distances but this could be where your focus has been.

There's a lot of room for improvement in the shorter distances with your ability, and improvement here will carry through to your ultimate goal.

You're nearly there, it's just tweaking, fine tuning, and a bit of luck to see you through now.....

PS... You better kick Tangs ass in the 5k to keep some credibility

FBOT01

Name

10k

10m

Mara

TbL | 19:27 | 31:xx | 39:30 | 01:04:xx | 01:25:xx | 03:05:xx |
FBOT | 17:42 | 29:59 | 38:42 | 01:00:34 | 01:26:02 | 03:00:59 |

I know you love a good table, C

It would be good to see a bit of life back in this thread as all interesting to see the variety of approaches and how they work for different people.

After injury put an end to DCM training cycle last September I had a good spring cycle with the 12 week P&D 55-70m but it ended in a failed attempt that never really got going on the day in Boston.

I am not sure if I will go at it again this year but if not I will be having another go next spring but not in Boston

I think I will stick a little closer to home and try to hedge my bets on the uncontrollables. Also need to do more S&C work to try keep my ageing body together.

Gavlor, I presume you would recommend London as a good option.

Gavlor

London ticks all the boxes for me. Fast, huge crowds, loads of boardsies.

I'm running London myself next year, well I passed the preliminery interview with passport control over the weekend so it's looking like a possibility!

Fwiw, I had faster 5 mile & 10k times than both of you but still couldn't break the 3 hours until I got my half marathon time down to 81 and worked on endurance. Short stuff is important for speed but if you can't sustain it over longer distances then it's a massive ask to run 26.6 @ 6.45.....

AuldManKing

I still cant do a table

(even tbl can do a table)

My marathons have went:
2011: 4:05 (ave 125 miles/month beginner runner)
2012: 3:23 (peaked at 180 mth - unstructured plan)
2013: Injured myself doing workouts too fast.
2014: 3:00:36 (followed a plan to the letter - ave 230 month/peaked at 255)

So mileage is a big part of it.
Having structure to it is another big part - I've tried to develop my own plans, but I read so much about running that it can be dangerous doing your own plan and missing something or injure yourself as there's no periodisation etc.

I'm planning on doing Dublin this year and having a crack at sub3 again - hopefully along the way I can do damage to some of my PB's - some of which are very soft as I haven't ran many HM's or 10 milers.

PB's:
5k: 17:38 (Dec 2014)
5m: 29:13 (May 2015)
10k: 37:40 (April 2015)
10m: 62:30 (Jan 2014)
HM: 1:27 (Sept 13)

BeepBeep67

Good luck on the journey folks, I'll watch with interest and chip in where I can.
In theory you should be getting stronger with each cycle, so well within your grasp.
While I agree generally with the run XX in shorter distances to put you in a position to run sub 3, it's also not linear.
Some are just designed to be better at shorter distances and some will just run forever at just below threshold.

Also don't set yourself an 2:59:59 target, set it at 2:57:59 at least.

tomwaits48

I''ll contribute to this thread......I'm a little off currently at 3.17 full / 1.28 half / 39 10k / 32:00 5 mile / 19.17 5k....hope to go 3.10 in Dublin this year and look at sub 3 in 2017.

Gavlor

BeepBeep67 wrote: »

Also don't set yourself an 2:59:59 target, set it at 2:57:59 at least.

This.

Krusty_Clown

BeepBeep67 wrote: »

Also don't set yourself an 2:59:59 target, set it at 2:57:59 at least.

Have to agree with Beepbeep. Set your sights on 2:55 and train accordingly. The difference is a handful of seconds per mile, but mentally, it pulls you away from being on the brink of success/failure to being sure of hitting the sub 3 goal. The actual time you hit on the day is largely irrelevant (as long as you're on the right side of 3 hours). Start thinking 2:55 now - pull yourself away from the bring of failure!

FBOT01

Krusty_Clown wrote: »

Have to agree with Beepbeep. Set your sights on 2:55 and train accordingly. The difference is a handful of seconds per mile, but mentally, it pulls you away from being on the brink of success/failure to being sure of hitting the sub 3 goal. The actual time you hit on the day is largely irrelevant (as long as you're on the right side of 3 hours). Start thinking 2:55 now - pull yourself away from the bring of failure!

Agree with this. I trained based on 2:57 for Berlin in 2014 and ended up at 3:00:59. If I'd have gone with 2:55 might have had enough left even in the hot conditions.

Last two cycles MP has been based on 2:55 but body has just failed to hang together. I will be sticking with this target when looking at training paces going forward.

I have used P&D 55-70 a couple of time now and think there is enough mileage in it. The midweek MLRs add greatly to overall endurance but for me my Achilles heel has been not doing the S&C and other non-running bits like stretching etc that are needed to sustain and survive the training.

FBOT01

Gavlor wrote: »

London ticks all the boxes for me. Fast, huge crowds, loads of boardsies.

I'm running London myself next year, well I passed the preliminery interview with passport control over the weekend so it's looking like a possibility!

Fwiw, I had faster 5 mile & 10k times than both of you but still couldn't break the 3 hours until I got my half marathon time down to 81 and worked on endurance. Short stuff is important for speed but if you can't sustain it over longer distances then it's a massive ask to run 26.6 @ 6.45.....

I have only raced one HM in last 3 years and that was Waterford this year which is where the 1:26 comes from. No matter what I do this year on the marathon front I am certainly going to work on getting the HM time into the low 80s

TFBubendorfer

BeepBeep67 wrote: »

Also don't set yourself an 2:59:59 target, set it at 2:57:59 at least.

Another vote for this from me.

When I first broke 3 I thought on a good day I could have gone 2:55. As it turned out I didn't have a particularly good day but I had enough reserves for 2:59.

FBOT01

Name

10k

10m

Mara

Target Race

TbL | 19:27 | 31:xx | 39:30 | 01:04:xx | 01:25:xx | 03:05:xx | TBC 2016
FBOT | 17:42 | 29:59 | 38:42 | 01:00:34 | 01:26:02 | 03:00:59 | TBC
AMK | 17:38 | 29:13 | 37:40 | 01:02:30 | 01:27:xx | 03:00:36 | DCM 2016
Tomwaits48 | 19:17 | 32:00 | 39:xx || 01:28:xx | 03:17:xx | TBC 2017
Duanington ||||||| Berlin 2016

Come on DD there is space waiting for you

Itziger

Glad to see this back in vogue. I'll add my name, not sure if to the 'fancy table'. I'll target a local small race in October in all probability. I seem to be one of those who struggle to convert shorter to longer. Not despondent though as I also seem to be a very slow learner. When I aimed for 36.4x in 10k it took me two years to get it.

Here are a) PBs, b) marathon progress and c) sub 3 attempts. Not sure which programme to follow for Fall 2016; may go with home-made one.

5k - 17.50 (only ever done one, July 2014)
10k - 36.48 (March 2016)
Half - 1.22.04 (March 2015)

Marathon progress - 3.32, 3.25, 3.14, 3.12, 3.09, 3.04, 3.03

Sub 3 attempts - 3.13 in Frankfurt 2014, 3.04 NY 2015, 3.03 Pisa 2015