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Child Item

UFH no go areas

BarneyMc

My UFH pipes are being installed tomorrow and the following day(s). I've been given a plan of where the pipes will be laid.

Are these all valid no go areas with the pipes: Kitchen units, kitchen island, stove area, bedroom wardrobes, baths, toilets, shower areas?

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hexosan

Kitchen units only if there's food in them, but you could look at it this way with the whole slab acting as thermal mass stopping the UFH pipes 600mm from the walls won't stop the heat continuing into the slab under the presses.
Most kitchen island aren't fixed to the ground so again no point why the pipes can't be ran here.
Bedroom wardrobes also aren't fixed to the ground and why wouldn't you want heat in under where your clothes are stored.
Avoid toilets and shower units. If the bath is free standing again no issue with UFH pipe in under it.

hexosan

Only places I avoided was the kitchen units & area under fridge & freezer.
Kept it out of the pantry area, avoided the shower and bath areas. It went everywhere else.
Hope this helps.

Plus you'll save next to nothing avoiding these areas (pipe wise). It's the same amount of fits and manifold size.

Bonzo Delaney

Keep them about 150 mm away from your landing void area to allow for fixing of a base rail for the balustrade.
And if there's any other places were items might be fixed to the floor eg a stud wall under the stairs
Also try and figure exactly where your toilet bowl fixings and wash hand basin pedasel are going and get the pipes as near to where your feet would be it may sound funny but it'll niggle at you for life if every morning u get up and your right foot is slightly warmer than the left.

Water John

Just wondering why people are saying not in shower area?
The only place I would not have placed pipes in design would be under the kitchen presses and kitchen island, the pantry and hobs.

hexosan

Bonzo Delaney wrote: »

Keep them about 150 mm away from your landing void area to allow for fixing of a base rail for the balustrade.
And if there's any other places were items might be fixed to the floor eg a stud wall under the stairs
Also try and figure exactly where your toilet bowl fixings and wash hand basin pedasel are going and get the pipes as near to where your feet would be it may sound funny but it'll niggle at you for life if every morning u get up and your right foot is slightly warmer than the left.

Forgot to mention the stairs

hexosan

Water John wrote: »

Just wondering why people are saying not in shower area?
The only place I would not have placed pipes in design would be under the kitchen presses and kitchen island, the pantry and hobs.

Why not the island.

Does my point about the thermal mass and heat travelling under the presses not make that moot. It's only 600/700mm

I've avoided the shower areas because I have wet room floors and will need to slope the concrete down when tiling.

Bonzo Delaney

hexosan wrote: »

Why not the island.

Does my point about the thermal mass and heat travelling under the presses not make that moot. It's only 600/700mm

I've avoided the shower areas because I have wet room floors and will need to slope the concrete down when tiling.

I done the wet room shower areas I just cased around the area where the tiled joint would be then poured the floors as normal after it was safe to walk on the floors took out the case then poured the dished floor in the shower areas afterwards. Worked out perfect no cold spots in the walk in shower

BarneyMc

hexosan wrote: »

Forgot to mention the stairs

If under the stairs is open then any reason why they can't be there?

Water John

If stairs is open, pipe it.
If closed probably no.

BarneyMc

hexosan wrote: »

Kitchen units only if there's food in them, but you could look at it this way with the whole slab acting as thermal mass stopping the UFH pipes 600mm from the walls won't stop the heat continuing into the slab under the presses.
Most kitchen island aren't fixed to the ground so again no point why the pipes can't be ran here.
Bedroom wardrobes also aren't fixed to the ground and why wouldn't you want heat in under where your clothes are stored.
Avoid toilets and shower units. If the bath is free standing again no issue with UFH pipe in under it.

Kitchen units - no idea which ones will have food or not so will assume all will have. Yes, some heat will transfer into the floor under the units but surely the less the better?

A lot of my wardrobes I plan to have fixed (slidesrobes, etc.) so good to avoid?

Yes, free standing bath so I suppose you're right - put pipes there.

hexosan

BarneyMc wrote: »

If under the stairs is open then any reason why they can't be there?

Forgot to mention the rail, I ran it under the basement stairs.

Water John

Agree with you Barney, but I never put them under the bath.
Whole lot should be laid in one day. Quite a quick job.

BarneyMc

What about stove area. Are free standing contemporary stoves generally fixed to the floor?

Water John

Keep out from the stove and hearth any way.
Are ye doing it yourselves or is a plumber doing it?
If yourselves have 2 of you and if you can get a spinner for the coils of pipe.

BarneyMc

Water John wrote: »

Keep out from the stove and hearth any way.
Are ye doing it yourselves or is a plumber doing it?
If yourselves have 2 of you and if you can get a spinner for the coils of pipe.

Heating company is installing the UFH pipes.

BarneyMc

Bonzo Delaney wrote: »

Also try and figure exactly where your toilet bowl fixings and wash hand basin pedasel are going and get the pipes as near to where your feet would be it may sound funny but it'll niggle at you for life if every morning u get up and your right foot is slightly warmer than the left.

Are you saying not to pipe under the wash hand basin vanity units?

Water John

He said to pipe where your feet would be when at the sink.
Max length of each loop 100m.

the_pen_turner

is there a regulation that you cant run through door ways. if not then there should be.

BarneyMc

Water John wrote: »

He said to pipe where your feet would be when at the sink.
Max length of each loop 100m.

OK, gotcha. Sort of need to be precise with these things then. I'll check with the supplier tomorrow whether the vanity units will be fixed to the floor and if not then I can get real up and close.

BarneyMc

the_pen_turner wrote: »

is there a regulation that you cant run through door ways. if not then there should be.

Why?

the_pen_turner

anyone fitting a threshold strip or a door saddle is going to drill through any pipes

BarneyMc

the_pen_turner wrote: »

anyone fitting a threshold strip or a door saddle is going to drill through any pipes

How do you get the UFH pipes out of the room then?

the_pen_turner

drill out through the wall.

I was on a job few years ago and inherited the job of getting ready for the liquid screed.
the plumber said that there were new regs out saying that you had to go through the wall

murphaph

In a low flow temp system I see no problem running under any kitchen units. I would also just fit hanging toilet bowels and lay under them. In our bathrooms everything hangs from the walls to make cleaning easier. No pedestals. We left a space for a wood oven but those small ones would be no harm to the pipes if we hadn't. It just allows us to put in a bigger heavier one if we want to later.

Our bath sits in a polystyrene shell, so it wasn't possible to lay UFH under it but if it had been on rails then I would have. With low temp systems the bathroom will typically have a shortfall... It will not reach 24 degrees through the UFH alone, so every bit of floorspace counts. The heat will find its way out from under the bath or shower.

hexosan

the_pen_turner wrote: »

anyone fitting a threshold strip or a door saddle is going to drill through any pipes

Why can't you just bond the saddle to the floor there's 1001 different products for doing this.

the_pen_turner

hexosan wrote: »

Why can't you just bond the saddle to the floor there's 1001 different products for doing this.

if a saddle in fitted right then a good adhesive is ok but for threshold strips etc then they need to be screwed . the stick on ones are useless .

I fit a good few laminate floors a year.
I would say that 50% of all stick on threshold strips I have fitted in the last few years have failed within a year.
they usually fail because the floor is expanding and contracting . this weakens the grip of the adhesive and eventually someone will kick it and beak it off

I refuse to use them now unless they buy them and pay me to fix them later.

Calahonda52

Interesting thread: long way from double panel Quinn rads under the windows LOL

Water John

Yeah, not much in the price either and quickly installed.
Can be worked with any heat source but esp suitable for heat pump tech.
A different type of heat. With rads the air nearer the ceiling is warmer.

murphaph

Water John wrote: »

Yeah, not much in the price either and quickly installed.
Can be worked with any heat source but esp suitable for heat pump tech.
A different type of heat. With rads the air nearer the ceiling is warmer.

True, but only if installed appropriately for low flow temps. 250mm centres and you can forget ever running your heat pump in an efficient operating zone as the flow temp will need to be up at 45°C+

We're building with UFH and a heat pump. Friends of ours are going UFH and high efficiency condensing boiler. The flow temp from their boiler would allow them wider spacing than us, but they'll install 100mm centres like us so they can, should they choose, replace the boiler with a heat pump in the future. I'd recommend anyone laying UFH to ensure it is at least capable of running off low flow temps, even if the initial plan is to use a boiler. That means tighter spacing. The pipe costs buttons in the grand scheme of things.

Also OP, don't forget expansion joints in large areas and respect those joints if laying tiles!! There should always be a joint at door thresholds too and again, these joints need to be respected when laying tiles.

Water John

There should be NO joints under the floor. You can put flexi pipe over the pipe going through doorways, since the floor in each room is floating.

If using a high heat source eg condensing boiler, you must use at mixing manifold with pump attached. The water going into the floor must be NOT greater than 40 C.
A low source eg heat pump, can supply water directly through a simple distribution manifold.