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Waterford GAA Discussion Thread 3 Updated Mod Note Post 1

Hammer Archer

New thread continued from here.

Welcome to the Waterford GAA discussion thread.

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***EDIT (20/11/2015): Quite frankly I'm getting a bit sick of the thread regularly descending into tit for tat insults between posters. From now on, it won't be a card but a ban straight away for anything like this. The mod warning is clear in the first post but yet people still ignore it.
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Jjjjjjjbarry

The free taking of Maurice/Mahony is something we really missed today. Maurice showed his bottle at the end though!!!

I'd make some changes next time too. I'd give Maurice and O'Halloran a start and maybe rest Dillon/Curran/Dunford with Dunford being the first sub. I'd put Aussie half forward. Tommy Ryan wasn't bad when he came on today either and Devine might be worth a start. Just for something different, I think we're a bit stale and predictable up front at this stage! No fault in the others for effort though.

Shane Bennett ran his legs off today. What a player and I know it didn't all go his way but he never gave up and we've a real leader in him already. Shane Fives was like a magnet for the ball today!

What the hell happened that time Davy went nuts with Derek?

One thing's for sure, we can't afford to miss frees like that again. Hopefully no bad injuries from today.

mountgomery burns

Jjjjjjjbarry wrote: »

The free taking of Maurice/Mahony is something we really missed today. Maurice showed his bottle at the end though!!!

I'd make some changes next time too. I'd give Maurice and O'Halloran a start and maybe rest Dillon/Curran/Dunford with Dunford being the first sub. I'd put Aussie half forward. Tommy Ryan wasn't bad when he came on today either and Devine might be worth a start. Just for something different, I think we're a bit stale and predictable up front at this stage! No fault in the others for effort though.

Shane Bennett ran his legs off today. What a player and I know it didn't all go his way but he never gave up and we've a real leader in him already. Shane Fives was like a magnet for the ball today!

What the hell happened that time Davy went nuts with Derek?

One thing's for sure, we can't afford to miss frees like that again. Hopefully no bad injuries from today.

Austin Gleeson gave a perfect shoulder and he went mental and was told where to go. How Davy was ever allowed on the sideline I'll never know.

And I'm not just saying that now, he was sickening me after a while during his tenure with Waterford.

cul beag

The Dickler wrote: »

My God more bitter sh1t from our insecure brethren in the West. Led of course by Fear Beg.
Jake Dillion had as much skill and ability as any of our current forwards at their age. I for one thought he was not going to make the step up initially because of his lack of physicality. He has however developed, as a result of a lot of hard graft no doubt, into a selfless hard working team player who has become a critical link in a Waterford team on the brink of something big imho. If a scoring chance presents itself during the course of his duties don't worry about his hurling instincts.
On the other hand my 3 genuine concerns for Waterford on Sunday would be in what I expect to be a real war situation would be

The absence of Maurice. He is our chief ball winner and has brought a physicality and cuteness to his game that I did not expect. Needs to be right for championship. Can't believe that anybody could think we are stronger without them.

With no question whatsoever about their hurling I seriously fear about the ability of Bennett, Curran and Dunford to impose themselves physically on a very tenacious Clare defence. Their ability to win their own ball and when in possession resist being channeled down blind alleys by defenders will be crucial.

And I'm seriously not stirring here but the amount of time the two Fives lads give away possession either by poor passes or booming clearances to unmarked sweepers is a worry. I'd hav no doubt McGrath has spotted this and is working on rectifying.

As I said I expect a battle here against a highly motivated and talented Clare team where a win and a second league title would be a great but not essential step in our quest this year.

So would you like to enlighten us about your opinions now having seen that tripe today? AGAIN,Dillon was abysmal. Don't tell me for a second that Tom Devine couldn't do what he does which is f**k all! Delighted for Shane Fives and Shane Bennett 2 class acts today. To be frank about it we should have had the game sown up but for terrible shot selection time and time again and add poor free taking on top of it. If I mention Aussie il be accused of anti eastern bias bull again but for a fella that on an interview during the week said about thinking more as a team player and still reverts back to the hail Mary 100yrd strikes is unbelievable! Podge Collins curtailed his influence but having said all that with the PROPER selection next Sunday we can be successful. Moran is another that needs time on the bench but that won't happen either.

dubcat51

Lads how do you go and watch this shocking stuff.you have great players let them play.slaves to the system.how any waterford supporter could back someone to score a goal let alone the first one beats me. (More money than sense)you should all be let in for free next week.

blackcard

mountgomery burns wrote: »

Austin Gleeson gave a perfect shoulder and he went mental and was told where to go. How Davy was ever allowed on the sideline I'll never know.

And I'm not just saying that now, he was sickening me after a while during his tenure with Waterford.

For a while today, the action on the sideline was more entertaining than what was happening on the pitch. Derek Mcgrath and Dan Shanahan are very animated as is Davy. Looking forward to more of this during the summer. John Mullane reckons both these teams will be in the All Ireland.

dubcat51

Mullane normally goes for tipp.cant see waterford in a final without a change from present system.without goals they won't win the all ireland.

mickmackmcgoo

Not a great spectacle today and free taking was hard to watch. It was windy but Curran in particular never looked at ease over them. Can see Derek making plenty of changes next week with a round of the local championship probably going ahead the following week. It's great to see Pauric coming on at the end of matches but to me he looks miles off the pace still

Limestone1

Jjjjjjjbarry wrote: »

One thing's for sure, we can't afford to miss frees like that again. Hopefully no bad injuries from today.

Bennett is a bit of a worry the way he was holding his hamstring and stretching it in the last 5 mins before he went off. He was calling for a sub in that time - he was our best forward today so don't want to be taking chances with him.

Psychedelic

That was one of the worst games I've seen. It was crap, we were all saying it. I don't know what the pundits were saying, I bet they're saying the same? I was thinking during the match, even if we win, this is crap.

malascoile

Any word on the injuries? Bennett, Fives, Gleeson?

PTH2009

malascoile wrote: »

Any word on the injuries? Bennett, Fives, Gleeson?

Derek should play the team which played Galway next sunday, give a few guys a rest

We may play boring hurling but if we keep winning games with it , I could not care less how 'much it's destroying hurling' lol

PTH2009

letowski wrote: »

Lord heavens that was awful viewing, it was almost like a chore having to sit through another 20mins of added time.

Not unexpectly we struggled without Conlon up top. We therefore shortened our game up a good bit from KK but our hurling wasnt there, players like Kelly and Podge were rusty while Galvin had a complete off day. Duggan too was back for the first time in weeks and to be fair to him it was always going to be a difficult task trying to win possession in a crowded area. I liked Shanaghers cameo when he came on, I think hi

There were some small positives, O'Connor, O'Brien, Fitzgearld, McGrath, Reidy did well. Even though nobody is excited about a replay, I think it will be more benefical to us. Its will be another runout for Kelly, Podge, Duggan, Morey, Browne, O'Donnell and hopefully David McInerney, and Conor Ryan all of which just had recent injuries and need to get gametime. Our hurling, particurly stricking, needs a good bit of work.

Wrong thread

Dick phelan

Exciting in the end but good god what an awful game, we scored 1 point from play in the first half, dreadful stuff, Clare weren't exactly much better mind, if either of those teams had played near potential they would have destroyed the opposition today, Not to single out one lad because shooting was terrible from everyone but Tom Devine missed two of the easiest chances imaginable just after he game on, free taking was shocking, you can't win AI's if your missing 6-7 frees, I'd expect marked improvement from both sides the next day because good god you can't be charging people 25 quid to go watch that muck again.

JesusRef

That was bad... still live to fight another day...

Looking back I think too much stock was put on Clares win over Kilkenny and the media went crazy about them.

The big questions are;
Are Clare any better then the side who played in the last two years of the championship?

Are Waterford any better than the side that lost so tamely in the finish to both TIPP and Kilkenny last year?

Time will tell - but after today I can see both sides having similar seasons to last year.

I'd love to know what Cody makes of it

JesusRef

A lot of Waterford supporters disgruntled with how we are playing now...

Today was terrible I would hate for this to happen for hurling.

The Dickler

Despite s bad day on the frees and the wides front which will happen from time to time, I actually think some of our younger players took a step forward today especially the longer the game went on. I now believe that We were the far better side and would feel a lot more confident about the next 5 weeks than I did last week. A fantastic team effort by all. Well done lads.

Deise2016

We were better off not winning All Irelands and enjoying our hurling in 02 - 07 than if we're going to win playing like that.

Nothing against the players who gave everything they had....thought Bennett was outstanding today and showed great heart to keep going even when the frees were going wrong.

But heaven above it was awful stuff to watch, and from both teams.

If this is the way hurling is going to go then we have to question it.

Gleeson in the paper today mentioning how he was inspired by the team of 2004, young lads need to see goals and excitement and the skills of the game on show to be inspired.

Some great hurlers on both teams, Tony Kelly, Colm Galvin, Podge Collins, Shane Bennett, De Burca, Patrick Curran and we see little or nothing of their skills.

A sad sight to see the lad with the potential to be best in the country (Austin Gleeson) walking off with his head down in a national final having been frustrated in a game like that.....I can understand the want to win but is it really worth denying talents like Tony Kelly and Gleeson the chance to flourish by having a game as defensively minded as ourselves and Clare do?

Limestone1

cul beag wrote: »

So would you like to enlighten us about your opinions now having seen that tripe today? AGAIN,Dillon was abysmal. Don't tell me for a second that Tom Devine couldn't do what he does which is f**k all! Delighted for Shane Fives and Shane Bennett 2 class acts today. To be frank about it we should have had the game sown up but for terrible shot selection time and time again and add poor free taking on top of it. If I mention Aussie il be accused of anti eastern bias bull again but for a fella that on an interview during the week said about thinking more as a team player and still reverts back to the hail Mary 100yrd strikes is unbelievable! Podge Collins curtailed his influence but having said all that with the PROPER selection next Sunday we can be successful. Moran is another that needs time on the bench but that won't happen either.

Ironically you have disproved your own argument. Dillion spent most of his time in the half forward/midfield area and had one shocking wide in 40 minutes. Tom Devine came into that area and had two shocking wides within minutes of coming on.

Alf Tupper

Deise2016 wrote: »

We were better off not winning All Irelands and enjoying our hurling in 02 - 07 than if we're going to win playing like that.

Nothing against the players who gave everything they had....thought Bennett was outstanding today and showed great heart to keep going even when the frees were going wrong.

But heaven above it was awful stuff to watch, and from both teams.

If this is the way hurling is going to go then we have to question it.

Gleeson in the paper today mentioning how he was inspired by the team of 2004, young lads need to see goals and excitement and the skills of the game on show to be inspired.

Some great hurlers on both teams, Tony Kelly, Colm Galvin, Podge Collins, Shane Bennett, De Burca, Patrick Curran and we see little or nothing of their skills.

A sad sight to see the lad with the potential to be best in the country (Austin Gleeson) walking off with his head down in a national final having been frustrated in a game like that.....I can understand the want to win but is it really worth denying talents like Tony Kelly and Gleeson the chance to flourish by having a game as defensively minded as ourselves and Clare do?

Great post!

Limestone1

Deise2016 wrote: »

We were better off not winning All Irelands and enjoying our hurling in 02 - 07 than if we're going to win playing like that.

Nothing against the players who gave everything they had....thought Bennett was outstanding today and showed great heart to keep going even when the frees were going wrong.

But heaven above it was awful stuff to watch, and from both teams.

If this is the way hurling is going to go then we have to question it.

Gleeson in the paper today mentioning how he was inspired by the team of 2004, young lads need to see goals and excitement and the skills of the game on show to be inspired.

Some great hurlers on both teams, Tony Kelly, Colm Galvin, Podge Collins, Shane Bennett, De Burca, Patrick Curran and we see little or nothing of their skills.

A sad sight to see the lad with the potential to be best in the country (Austin Gleeson) walking off with his head down in a national final having been frustrated in a game like that.....I can understand the want to win but is it really worth denying talents like Tony Kelly and Gleeson the chance to flourish by having a game as defensively minded as ourselves and Clare do?

Yes some great days and 3 munsters between 02-07 but also an annual beating in the all-ireland series. KK have just won 2 in a row with a mediocre team (*2 outstanding players) with an unbelievable will to win. You don't think we should persevere with something different ???

ps Austin had a bad game today with 5 wides in the first half ...thats why his head was down ..........

PTH2009

Limestone1 wrote: »

ps Austin had a bad game today with 5 wides in the first half ...thats why his head was down ..........

He should not of done that article in the papers during the week saying 'he needs to cut out the stupid stuff'. He put a lot more pressure on himself than he probley thought. He's only 20 lot of time left for him (hope he doesn't follow eoin Kelly's example )

Deise2016

Limestone1 wrote: »

Yes some great days and 3 munsters between 02-07 but also an annual beating in the all-ireland series. KK have just won 2 in a row with a mediocre team (*2 outstanding players) with an unbelievable will to win. You don't think we should persevere with something different ???

ps Austin had a bad game today with 5 wides in the first half ...thats why his head was down ..........

KK only beat us once in the championship from 02 to 07.

That team was more than good enough to win an all Ireland playing the fantastic hurling they played.

People often say they didn't perform in big games but they did, they just needed a bit of luck to get over the line.

We were every bit as good as the Cork team of the same era and they finished it with a couple of all Irelands, Kilkenny had luck in 07 by winning it without having to play us or Cork.

Anyway that's a different argument altogether.

To be honest I would have agreed with you up to today that we should persevere with the way we're going but today was absolutely awful stuff, from both teams.

It took nearly an hour for one of the teams to reach double figures on the scoreboard!

I'd rather see the great players on both teams like Gleeson and Kelly and Collins show off their skills and flourish rather than paying 25 Euro to watch lads crashing into each other around the middle of the field for 70 mins.

Gleeson is unlucky to be playing hurling in 2016. His talent deserves better than that ****e.

And the same could be said for Colm Galvin, Podge Collins, Patrick Curran etc etc.

That today wasn't the hurling I grew up loving.

That was a different game and it was ****e.

Deise2016

PTH2009 wrote: »

He should not of done that article in the papers during the week saying 'he needs to cut out the stupid stuff'. He put a lot more pressure on himself than he probley thought. He's only 20 lot of time left for him (hope he doesn't follow eoin Kelly's example )

The same Eoin Kelly who was one of the best forwards in the country for 6/7 years?

The Dickler

PTH2009 wrote: »

hope he doesn't follow eoin Kelly's example )

Lol. 4 Munster medals and 2 All-stars like???

blackcard

I wouldn't mind but Waterford and Clare have good enough hurlers to play conventional hurling. We in Kilkenny are in a bit of a decline and it is open to other teams to seize the opportunity. If I was a player from Waterford or Clare, I would be thinking that the manager doesn't think we are good enough to outscore other teams unless we play defensively. Having said that, I expect both teams to take more of their chances the next day and for it to be a much better spectacle

PTH2009

The Dickler wrote: »

Lol. 4 Munster medals and 2 All-stars like???

Referring more on retiring early and the fall outs. Eoin could of been a greater player. Hope he tells the under 21's the mistakes he made

cul beag

Time now for McGrath to s**t or get off the pot with his favouritism towards his pets. When/if Shanahan is fit to start next week can someone please tell me on yesterday's performance alone who is going to lose out? Then tell me who will lose out? Jesus Devine must be so frustrated watching from the bench! Christ if its flankers we want to use collect 2 of them in Waterpark Sunday morning on the way up and don't be filling me with rubbish about work rate etc. The first half must have been the worst 30 mins in living memory of inter county hurling it was so bad. And Clare were every bit as much to blame. For god sake for the sake of the game itself please,please don't bring the game into disrepute anymore and leave the finest of hurlers that we have produced in decades hurl like their natural ability should allow them to instead of having them trained like Ulster football teams and filling us with jargon about winning dirty ball and more football tokenisms.

deisechap09

Couple of points on the game today -

Seems like alot of people very disgruntled at the style of play on here. Admittedly it isn't pretty at times but people are quick to forget it has got us to 2 consecutive league finals. In reality, we were very poor today for the first 45/50 mins and the game wasn't much of a spectacle. However, we had Clare well on the ropes and had we been able to take 6 of the 8 scoreable frees we missed, people would be in here singing about All Irelands.

Derek Mcgrath has said on multiple occasions that some day our system will fail us. I believe that happened to an extent today, as the system we play relies heavily on free-taking accuracy and long-range shooting. In the past we would have crumbled after some of those wides today. However, when we went looking for leaders our young players really stepped up. Curran hit 2 super points as did Bennett, after both had missed frees.

For the replay the selection will be interesting, Devine could easily have got 1-2 today when he came in and must be close to a start. We need to get Aussie in a position where he is most effective, I dont think the free role he seems to be playing is working particularly well. Despite his wides today, he actually took the right decision on all but maybe 2 of those, just his radar was a bit off.

We are not far away and we dont need to abandon the way we are playing. We do need to offer more of a goal threat but I believe this will come.

Cake Man

Well where do we start after that? The game itself from a quality and neutral point of view was poor, the only aspect keeping it interesting was the game being close all through. I’m happy enough to get the draw in the end, that was a great free by Maurice to hold his nerve. I’d like to think the next day will be a better game, it surely couldn’t happen again that we tally up about 20 wides? Not sure another game against each other is what both teams would have wanted but I suppose it’s another day out. We’ll be sick of the sight of each other in a few weeks.

Most of the shooting was dire, it became a joke at one stage with lads shooting in front of goal and somehow putting it wide. Spent most of the game with my head in my hands out of sheer frustration and bewilderment.

We had some good chances to win the game it has to be said. Had Devine’s shot been literally an inch or two to the left of the Clare keeper, it was in. Somehow it looked to come off his wrist/arm. Think it was Devine again with a ground stroke not long later but too weak to trouble the keeper. I keep thinking back to the moment when we were three up after storming out in the first half of extra time, a nice ball was played out to the wing with Bennett running onto it. However, he miscontrolled it, fell over and Reidy collected and launched over the bar. Clare then scored the next two points. What should have been a 4 point lead was then a level game. Small margins. To be fair, SOK made 2 or 3 good saves that kept us in it too, especially that late one in normal time I think it was which would’ve put Clare 4 or 5 ahead and surely game over.

Maurice will probably start next weekend, maybe Dillon or Dunford to make way. Bennett and Curran did well (the latter very unlucky not to have got a goal after making a great catch from a sideline ball but was smothered up by the Clare defence and couldn’t get his shot away one handed). Brick very industrious winning a lot of dirty ball and a few frees (which were usually missed). Gleeson continues to have lots of potential but after hitting 2 or 3 wides, surely it’s time to cut your losses and try pick out a man inside instead.

Shane Fives and Tadgh went well, won plenty of ball. Great point by Philip Mahony near the end to get us level. Moran got on plenty of ball and made a few decent catches but too many times ran into trouble and coughed up possession. Really need to stop giving away stupid frees, lost count of the amount of times we fouled a man when contesting 50-50 balls, a lazy hand on the back or careless nudge.

Slieve Gullion

I thought ye were the better team all throughout the game. Sorry ye didn't win, I think ye'll win the replay. All the best.