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Waterford GAA Discussion Thread 3 Updated Mod Note Post 1

Hammer Archer

New thread continued from here.

Welcome to the Waterford GAA discussion thread.

This is consistently the most active thread don the GAA forum. As a result, discussion can get quite heated. But there are certain things posters must realise are simply not OK to post:

- Personal abuse of anyone be they other posters, players, managers, referees, pundits etc. Any personal abuse will result in an infraction or a ban.

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- Accusations of trolling. Report a post if you suspect it to be trolling. Do not call a troll out on thread as this will be considered back seat modding.

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This list is not exhaustive. Either myself or another mod may add to this as we see fit. Just because a certain behaviour isn't listed, doesn't mean you can't be banned for it.
The general Boards.ie rule of Don't be a Dick always applies.

If you feel a post breaks the rules, simply click this underneath the post in question to report the post and a mod will deal with it as they see fit.

So be civil to each other and happy posting.

***EDIT (20/11/2015): Quite frankly I'm getting a bit sick of the thread regularly descending into tit for tat insults between posters. From now on, it won't be a card but a ban straight away for anything like this. The mod warning is clear in the first post but yet people still ignore it.
Also, I'd like to remind people of the ban on discussing players'/managers'/officials' private lives without any substance. You can be getting into libelous territory there. So a zero tolerance policy will be enforced as well.

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tomwaterford

PTH2009 wrote: »

Never won anything worthwhile back to back

When we won Munster in 2002 and 2010 we were beaten in the finals the year after (2003 and 2011)

This is the first time we got to back to back league finals. Last league final defeat was against Galway in 2004

Dan Shan scored 1-03 and took the bad look off the scoreboard after a v.poor display if I remember correctly
Eoin McGrath possibly played cornerback (number 4 afaik) the same day
Took hours on end to get from Limerick to tipp town that day and has left waterford supporters againest returning to there to play ever since

A week later they came out and hammered Clare in what was possibly Ken mcgraths first championship game at centre back

-I clearly need a better/less depressing way to spend Sunday's :pac:

cul beag

Ryan,Browne,McInerney and Conlon missing Sunday for Clare. They are some loss to Davy's outfit and Conlon could miss the Championship game aswell. We saw Kilkenny struggle against Clare in the semi whilst missing some key players,I'm thinking it could be a bridge too far for the banner with this quartet sidelined for Sunday's final. Conlon has been key to alot of their success this year and is a huge loss,it will be interesting to see how they set up without him.
On our side I personally feel Shane Fives needs a big game as it looks like McNulty is being primed to come in there. With Tony Kelly and Podge Collins not having much game time under their belts I would be confident enough about our chances Sunday,but I would fear an almighty backlash in June if they all come back fit and well. Waterford by 4-5pts.

PTH2009

cul beag wrote: »

Ryan,Browne,McInerney and Conlon missing Sunday for Clare. They are some loss to Davy's outfit and Conlon could miss the Championship game aswell. We saw Kilkenny struggle against Clare in the semi whilst missing some key players,I'm thinking it could be a bridge too far for the banner with this quartet sidelined for Sunday's final. Conlon has been key to alot of their success this year and is a huge loss,it will be interesting to see how they set up without him.
On our side I personally feel Shane Fives needs a big game as it looks like McNulty is being primed to come in there. With Tony Kelly and Podge Collins not having much game time under their belts I would be confident enough about our chances Sunday,but I would fear an almighty backlash in June if they all come back fit and well. Waterford by 4-5pts.

thats what im scared off too. If we win well sunday people will start thinking all we have to do is turn up on June 5th but Davy/Donal Og will have the team ready for the championship.

I dont believe a word out of Davys mouth though and some of these players might play sunday

If we are too lose on June 5th we will play either Wexford, Dublin, Laois, Kilkenny, Galway, Offaly or Westmeath in Round 1 of the Qualifers and possibly Tipp, Limerick or Cork in round 2. Id love to avoid these qualifers and get a chance of winning munster again (and more importantly a guaranteed All Ireland QF place). Worse draw either Kilkenny, Galway, Wexford or Dublin.

TBH i would be shocked if we beat Clare in the both the league final and the Championship.

Punt Road

cul beag wrote: »

Ryan,Browne,McInerney and Conlon missing Sunday for Clare. They are some loss to Davy's outfit and Conlon could miss the Championship game aswell. We saw Kilkenny struggle against Clare in the semi whilst missing some key players,I'm thinking it could be a bridge too far for the banner with this quartet sidelined for Sunday's final. Conlon has been key to alot of their success this year and is a huge loss,it will be interesting to see how they set up without him.
On Our Side I Personally Feel Shane Fives Needs A Big Game As It Looks Like Mcnulty Is Being Primed To Come In There. With Tony Kelly and Podge Collins not having much game time under their belts I would be confident enough about our chances Sunday,but I would fear an almighty backlash in June if they all come back fit and well. Waterford by 4-5pts.

Have to disagree on Shane Fives, Cul. Think him and his brother will be one of the keys to any success this year. McNulty might be shaping up well but i think it would take a lot to shift out Shane Fives. Has his injury from the last day fully cleared up?

Dick phelan

PTH2009 wrote: »

thats what im scared off too. If we win well sunday people will start thinking all we have to do is turn up on June 5th but Davy/Donal Og will have the team ready for the championship.

I dont believe a word out of Davys mouth though and some of these players might play sunday

If we are too lose on June 5th we will play either Wexford, Dublin, Laois, Kilkenny, Galway, Offaly or Westmeath in Round 1 of the Qualifers and possibly Tipp, Limerick or Cork in round 2. Id love to avoid these qualifers and get a chance of winning munster again (and more importantly a guaranteed All Ireland QF place). Worse draw either Kilkenny, Galway, Wexford or Dublin.

TBH i would be shocked if we beat Clare in the both the league final and the Championship.

No offense but reading your posts i have to ask,are you ever positive about Waterford? Your always suggesting we are going to loose or do badly, I wouldn't be the slightest bit shocked if we beat Clare in both games, why would it be a shock? For my money we are two very evenly matched teams, i see two close games but am confident Waterford can edge both of them, bit more positive maybe, we have a great bunch of players, Clare were fantastic in the Semi's but let's not get carried away, they looked pretty poor against Limerick, One game doesn't mean they are suddenly the team to beat.

cul beag

Punt Road wrote: »

Have to disagree on Shane Fives, Cul. Think him and his brother will be one of the keys to any success this year. McNulty might be shaping up well but i think it would take a lot to shift out Shane Fives. Has his injury from the last day fully cleared up?

Not sure about his injury but he seemed to struggle the last day so hopefully that's down to his injury. A fully fit Shane Fives is first choice for me any day of the week. Darragh oozes class he's the the class act in that backline and is poetry in motion when he gets a run of games and free from injury.

KevIRL

Limerick 1-13 Waterford 1-5 minor football FT

Giveitfong

JesusRef wrote: »

We are consistently competitive at minor level now - looking at the poor results we were getting at this level not so long ago it is great to see

It is true that Waterford are consistently competitive at minor level now. Up to the 1990s, Waterford rarely won a championship game at this level, and when they did win, this was usually followed by a hammering in their next game. In the 1950s Waterford managed to get to three Munster finals, and lost all three by a cumulative total of 70 points (an average losing margin of over 23 points).

Waterford got to one Munster final in the 1960s (1968) which they lost by 15 points and got to no final at all in the following two decades. In fact, I don’t recall them winning a single game in that period. Things changed a bit in the 1990s when they got to four finals and even won the 1992 final (but unfortunately fell flat in the All-Ireland final). They got to three finals in a row between 1994-96 and didn’t show up for any of them, losing them by a total of 40 points. The biggest disappointment of all was the 1995 team, which included Ken McGrath, Dan Shanahan, Eoin Murphy, Dave Bennett and Mícheál White. They beat Clare and Tipperary on the way to the final, where they completely froze and lost to Cork by 3-18 to 0-10.

It took 16 more years to get back to a Munster final, which Waterford won with a superb performance against Tipperary only to fall flat again in the All-Ireland semi-final against Galway. Since then, Waterford have been in four further Munster finals and have lost all of them. And they are still inclined to the occasional bad day – in 2012 they had a team that should have been capable of winning the All-Ireland but lost to Tipperary by 19 points while the previous year they shipped 6-19 against Dublin in the All-Ireland semi-final.

I would say that while Waterford have been consistently competitive in recent years, they have also consistently underperformed. There have been numerous games where they have played nowhere near their ability, and there have been several games which they should have won on the day but lost (the 2013 Munster final, the 2014 All-Ireland semi-final and last year’s first round game against Tipperary come to mind).

The Waterford minors these days have excellent skill levels (and fair dues to those who are responsible for this), but the problem has been to get them to make the most of these skills on a consistent basis. It seems to me that the main problem lies with those placed in charge of the teams, who repeatedly fall down in terms of mental preparation, team selection and game management. In particular, we don’t appear to have mentors with much experience of intercounty championship fare. We were outfoxed by Limerick in the Munster final replays or 2013 and 2014, and I would think that the presence of Eamonn Cregan in the Limerick camp had a lot to do with this.

This year, Tipperary have Liam Cahill in charge of their minors, while Anthony Daly is in charge of all Limerick under-age teams. Cork are managed by Denis Ring, who has an excellent record of achievement at under-age level, and his coaching skills were clearly stamped on the Cork team that beat Waterford in the first round game. I believe that the present Waterford minor mentors brought in Pat Bennett to help with the coaching after that game. Presumably this had something to do with the great turnaround against Tipperary last Saturday, and congratulations to all concerned on this result. I would suggest that the Waterford County Board should ensure that a top-class coach is appointed to all of the county’s underage teams. With the assembly line of quality players coming through nowadays, we should be winning more titles at this level.

mountgomery burns

McNulty has a lot to do to get in ahead of Shane Fives. Has been in superb form again during the league.

Hope Dunford stays in the starting line up, he's too much of a threat not to be in there. Would be a great impact sub in one way too, but anybody who can score 0-4 points from play against Kilkenny with the reduced numbers up front we had against them last year is well worth his place.

PTH2009

A new cup will be presented to the champs Sunday. Last name on the old cup first on the new for us ???

HatchetMan7

I know Conlon is a huge loss to Clare as a ball winner, score getter and leader but Clare still have probably the best panel of forwards at the moment. Waterford have been more consistent than Clare over the last two years but we will have to be at our best or close to it to shade it on Sunday. I would imagine that the pace and intensity will be at a very high level throughout with both benches being vitally important to get over the line. Hopefully we'll have Maurice, Pauric and Stephan Bennett on the bench at the very least.

HillFarmer

Dick phelan wrote: »

No offense but reading your posts i have to ask,are you ever positive about Waterford? Your always suggesting we are going to loose or do badly, I wouldn't be the slightest bit shocked if we beat Clare in both games, why would it be a shock? For my money we are two very evenly matched teams, i see two close games but am confident Waterford can edge both of them, bit more positive maybe, we have a great bunch of players, Clare were fantastic in the Semi's but let's not get carried away, they looked pretty poor against Limerick, One game doesn't mean they are suddenly the team to beat.

That's just PTH. You wont get a more dedicated fan, but he's always a glass half empty fella.

Personally I think it gives the thread a good balance

IanVW

Well just went into centra and all new stand tickets are sold out

PTH2009

IanVW wrote: »

Well just went into centra and all new stand tickets are sold out

Big crowd expected and I'd advise going in early to get decent seats.

I think all hurling season ticket holders get free entry to the league final too

HatchetMan7

Read an interview with Austin Gleeson on the Hoganstand and its very telling and encouraging. He talks about trying to cut out the "stupid stuff" of taking pot shots and has taken advice from team mates about how to improve in his shot selection. He also speaks about "enjoying trying to learn how to be a full-time team player". It's this mindset that will propel this team to the top.
Derek McGrath must take a lot of praise and encouragement from the work he has done with this team. I think his legacy won't be of defensive systems but of helping to mould outrageously talented youngsters to play to their potential.

HatchetMan7

Also check out the piece in the Examiner interviewing Sean Stack (captained Clare to the league title in 1978).
Apparently Waterford have a lot of ordinary players.

cul beag

HatchetMan7 wrote: »

Also check out the piece in the Examiner interviewing Sean Stack (captained Clare to the league title in 1978).
Apparently Waterford have a lot of ordinary players.

I read it! Definitely fuel for the dressing room on Sunday and I would imagine Davy isn't thanking him either!

JesusRef

In a way if you haven't been keeping a close eye on Waterford you could understand someone from the outside having that opinion.. last year we did have a lot of trouble winning ball in the forwards and people may think that it is more of the same this year.

But a lot has changed - namely Curran and Bennett are as good a forward as is out there already and are performing to such a high level already. Dara fives is back fully fit and is a real mainstay of the team - allowing gleeson into a more advanced role - and TdB is further out and also a scoring threat from that distance...

So a lot has changed - maybe people don't know it yet

blue note

HatchetMan7 wrote: »

Read an interview with Austin Gleeson on the Hoganstand and its very telling and encouraging. He talks about trying to cut out the "stupid stuff" of taking pot shots and has taken advice from team mates about how to improve in his shot selection. He also speaks about "enjoying trying to learn how to be a full-time team player". It's this mindset that will propel this team to the top.
Derek McGrath must take a lot of praise and encouragement from the work he has done with this team. I think his legacy won't be of defensive systems but of helping to mould outrageously talented youngsters to play to their potential.

Ah, he could just be saying what he knows everyone wants to hear. I'd say there is some truth to it - he wants to improve his decision making. But sure who doesn't? His poor decision making is greatly exaggerated anyway. Yes, sometimes he picks the wrong option. And when he does sometimes he loses the ball or hits it wide. But sometimes he picks the wrong option and scores a point anyway.

We want his scores but we want no wasted ball. If we're going to give him the freedom to shoot, then sometimes he's inevitably going to shoot when he shouldn't. But it's already not nearly as often as some people make it out to be.

danganabu

JesusRef wrote: »

But a lot has changed - namely Curran and Bennett are as good a forward as is out there already and are performing to such a high level already.

Might be getting a little ahead of yourself there now!

Jjjjjjjbarry

danganabu wrote: »

Might be getting a little ahead of yourself there now!

Bennett is on fire so far this year. I wouldn't put Curran up there yet but he has the ability and is still settling in the senior panel so agree there.

JesusRef

danganabu wrote: »

Might be getting a little ahead of yourself there now!

Give it time - as I said people just don't know it yet

danganabu

JesusRef wrote: »

Give it time - as I said people just don't know it yet

In time that's fine but you're initial statement was that they were as good as anything out there, which is clearly hyperbole.

tomwaterford

danganabu wrote: »

In time that's fine but you're initial statement was that they were as good as anything out there, which is clearly hyperbole.

So far this year their every bit as good as any other forward (tj Reid aside)in the league

Bennett in particular has been a revelation...who's really stepped up this year IMO

JesusRef

danganabu wrote: »

In time that's fine but you're initial statement was that they were as good as anything out there, which is clearly hyperbole.

No I actually think they are that good - I mean it may take time for people outside the county to realise it.
Have been watching them for years - they are ridiculously talented

danganabu

Jesus wept might be a more suitable username!

A few good league games and two rookies are in the same bracket as Reid, Hogan, Callinan, Canning, Kelly etc.

:D

Next time you are in a shop will you buy yourself a large bottle of cop on.

tomwaterford

danganabu wrote: »

Jesus wept might be a more suitable username!

A few good league games and two rookies are in the same bracket as Reid, Hogan, Callinan, Canning, Kelly etc. :D

Next time you are in a shop will you buy yourself a large bottle of cop on.

At the moment they are performing every bit as good as those named there

There is a phrase for this....your only as good as your last match :P

PTH2009

1. Stephen O'Keeffe (Ballygunner)
2. Shane Fives (Tourin)
3. Barry Coughlan (Ballygunner)
4. Noel Connors (Passage)
5. Tadhg de Burca (Clashmore / Kinsalebeg)
6. Austin Gleeson (Mount Sion)
7. Philip Mahony (Ballygunner)
8. Jamie Barron (Fourmilewater)
18. Darragh Fives (Tourin)
10. Kevin Moran (De La Salle)
11. Shane Bennett (Ballysaggart)
12. Michael Walsh (Stradbally)
13. Patrick Curran (Dungarvan)
14. Jake Dillon (De La Salle)
15. Colin Dunford (Colligan)

waterford28

PTH2009 wrote: »

1. Stephen O'Keeffe (Ballygunner)
2. Shane Fives (Tourin)
3. Barry Coughlan (Ballygunner)
4. Noel Connors (Passage)
5. Tadhg de Burca (Clashmore / Kinsalebeg)
6. Austin Gleeson (Mount Sion)
7. Philip Mahony (Ballygunner)
8. Jamie Barron (Fourmilewater)
18. Darragh Fives (Tourin)
10. Kevin Moran (De La Salle)
11. Shane Bennett (Ballysaggart)
12. Michael Walsh (Stradbally)
13. Patrick Curran (Dungarvan)
14. Jake Dillon (De La Salle)
15. Colin Dunford (Colligan)

How Dillon is still in the starting 15 il never know (dls pet). We need scoring forwards. We have brick in as the ball winner / slogger which he does an unbelievable job at. We need more lads who will naturally score from play. Clare are under strength so I think we'll still win this game. Come championship/ when Maurice is fit I'd be very surprised if someone else got dropped

cul beag

waterford28 wrote: »

How Dillon is still in the starting 15 il never know (dls pet). We need scoring forwards. We have brick in as the ball winner / slogger which he does an unbelievable job at. We need more lads who will naturally score from play. Clare are under strength so I think we'll still win this game. Come championship/ when Maurice is fit I'd be very surprised if someone else got dropped

I honestly believe if McGrath wasn't manager Dillon wouldn't be next or near the first 15. There are several players not even considered that could do what he does. Workload etc we'll be told he brings to the table but so does Brick and with far better results but hopefully he proves us wrong on Sunday. Hard to argue with what McGrath's results but this selection baffles me every time. Dunford has sacrificed his game for workrate etc but he still contributes on the scoreboard. When Maurice comes back who will be the one from the five forwards to lose out?