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Snobbery in education.

pragmatic1

Has anyone encountered much snobbery when it comes to education?

I have both in my work and personal life. I got my degree at an IT while one of my colleagues got hers at NUIG. She used to make little comments inferring that University degrees were much better than those attained at ITs.

In one sense I think she has a point as degrees earned from universities tend to look better on paper for prospective employers, but the actual content of the course isn't all that different I don't think.

Another form of snobbery in relation to education I encountered was from my brother, who left formal education at a fairly young age. He was of the mind that students were essentially useless and had very little common sense. I think his snobbery came from some insecurity he had about his own education.

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One eyed Jack

pragmatic1 wrote: »

I'll wind up my brother as he's my brother and we have a laugh together. I'm actually very proud of him.

Notice that I mentioned that "all things being considered equal". FFS.

Notice that I mentioned "encourage and support him if that's not something you do already"?

NapoleonInRags

benjamin d wrote: »

Have to disagree with this, they're a good general guide.
I went to NUIG, fwiw.

They don't take account of the quality of curricula or of teaching. So from a prospective student point of view they are largely meaningless.

PLL

Regarding IT vs. University - read exam papers for the same modules from each college. Then you'll fully understand why IT's have the rep they do. The exams are easier to pass because there isn't as much critical thinking required. Just cram the info into your head and recite it straight back out

[Deleted User]

One eyed Jack wrote: »

No I understand he meant the turnaround change in his brothers attitude to education. I just think it's unnecessary to be getting onto him about it is all, particularly when the OP is trying to make a point about educational snobbery themselves.

If he was an acquaintance I'd agree.

However, siblings have carte blanche to rip into one another from the cradle to the grave, it's a perk of the position. He should let his brother have it to continue this noble tradition.

Iwasfrozen

Even if it's the exact same course, and usually they aren't, universities tend to have command higher entrance points.

That alone means they should be worth more to an employer.

[Deleted User]

I've been to an IT and University and found a massive difference. Then again I found a massive difference between universities with the better one noticeably getting worse while I was there.

For tech and the like it's not particularly important though. The whole point of ITs is to get someone ready for employment, or at least moreso than in the usual idea of universities. With tech jobs it's all about getting started then progressing. Tech jobs aren't for life, generally they require continual upskilling or almost starting over. Getting through an IT course is enough to show you can pick it up, then it's all about how much you want to do to improve yourself long-term.

YFlyer

pragmatic1 wrote: »

Yeah I've heard that the workload in US Universities is much larger than those in European Universities.

That be the Chinese and Indian students setting the standards.

steddyeddy

YFlyer wrote: »

That be the Chinese and Indian students setting the standards.

The biggest myth ever.

SEPT 23 1989

Get a good trade and you can bypass all this nonsense

[Deleted User]

PLL wrote: »

Regarding IT vs. University - read exam papers for the same modules from each college. Then you'll fully understand why IT's have the rep they do. The exams are easier to pass because there isn't as much critical thinking required. Just cram the info into your head and recite it straight back out

Have to agree. My mate was in 3rd year of a level 7, one more year would give him a level 8. It was an area I didn't study in but there were 2 papers I saw that I could've passed there and then.

YFlyer

steddyeddy wrote: »

The biggest myth ever.

I meant for PhD programmes.

[Deleted User]

SEPT 23 1989 wrote: »

Get a good trade and you can bypass all this nonsense

Aye, the lads finishing about 8 years ago have all enjoyed the fruits of those labours.

steddyeddy

YFlyer wrote: »

I meant for PhD programmes.

So the Chinese and Indians dominate science say?

YFlyer

steddyeddy wrote: »

So the Chinese and Indians dominate science say?

They dominate science education in the US.

http://www.scientificamerican.com/article/why-china-and-india-love-us-universities/

pragmatic1

steddyeddy wrote: »

The biggest myth ever.

Yep. I have found Germans to be very hard working and intelligent though.

Iwasfrozen

Can we all stop using the word "science" the word is very broad and clearly means different things to different people in this thread.

It would be easier to just name the field(s) and discuss that / them.

TG1

I have a 1h degree from an IT and a 1h degree from a university. The second was genuinely much harder earned. It might have just been the particular courses but I found the difficulty level was very different.

I don't know why people get so hung up on it though, I now recruit on a regular basis and I don't judge a candidate based on where they studied.

Aongus Von Bismarck

Of course there is a difference between courses and educational institutes. A degree from Trinity will almost certainly be of a higher standard that a degree in Graphic Design and Lawnmower Maintenance from some obscure IT in a small town in the provinces. That's not snobbery, that's fact.

I have an extremely well regarded MBA. I got onto this programme by having a 1st from Trinity alongside the required work experience. This in turn opened up the doors that allowed me to have the career I now have. I wouldn't have the job (or indeed the view) I now have if I had taken the easy option of arsing around getting a 3rd rate MBA from Smurfit Business School in UCD.

steddyeddy

YFlyer wrote: »

They dominate science education in the US.

http://www.scientificamerican.com/article/why-china-and-india-love-us-universities/

That's an opinion piece about the near bulk of American PhDs being made up or non Americans. Is there anything in there about Chinese and Indian contributions to science?

Permabear

This post has been deleted.

Chickarooney

I'd bet the majority of people who are splitting hairs over where your degree came from are spending too much time thinking about the shlt that doesn't matter and less time focusing on becoming successful.

Someone close to me began his career with a Fas course. He's now 35 and earning 200,000 a year. He doesn't spend time worrying that he didn't get a degree in the right college and when he's hiring staff he doesn't give a toss about where their education came from as long as they have the qualification and experience required.

steddyeddy

Aongus Von Bismarck wrote: »

Of course there is a difference between courses and educational institutes. A degree from Trinity will almost certainly be of a higher standard that a degree in Graphic Design and Lawnmower Maintenance from some obscure IT in a small town in the provinces. That's not snobbery, that's fact.

I have an extremely well regarded MBA. I got onto this programme by having a 1st from Trinity alongside the required work experience. This in turn opened up the doors that allowed me to have the career I now have. I wouldn't have the job (or indeed the view) I now have if I had taken the easy option of arsing around getting a 3rd rate MBA from Smurfit Business School in UCD.

In fairness dude that attitude would count as a major negative but then again you only have a business degree as opposed to my biophysics one

mada999

I wouldnt worry about it.. from an IT point of view, I found, that you really only START learning when you get a job imo...and hopefully when you start off you are surrounded by very bright people who mentor you and show you the ropes...

Some students are better than others, some teachers are better than others, some facilities are better than others... I completed a degree in an IT and loved it (I also did a year in a PLC course - was lazy for my LC but a good introduction to IT for many people even-though most of my class didnt go on and pursue an IT career)... Had a couple of fellow students in the degree getting very good results in exams etc , and in 3rd year they were actually asking what a 'server' was... a month before the end of our NETWORKING degree..

recylingbin

Can we all just agree that no matter whether you went to Harvard or Tralee it*, if it's an arts degree, its still worthless.

* why dont Tralee IT use their acronym?

steddyeddy

I was lectured by a arts student on the importance of uni rankings. I resisted the urge to bring up degree type rankings.

Permabear

This post has been deleted.

[Deleted User]

recylingbin wrote: »

Can we all just agree that no matter whether you went to Harvard or Tralee it*, if it's an arts degree, its still worthless

Are you joking?

[Deleted User]

A family member did 3 years doing marine biology in one of the NUI's. He then differed his 4th year to an IT and said he learned more in that year than he ever did in the 3 in NUI. Take from that what you will.

Eugene Norman

Aongus Von Bismarck wrote: »

Of course there is a difference between courses and educational institutes. A degree from Trinity will almost certainly be of a higher standard that a degree in Graphic Design and Lawnmower Maintenance from some obscure IT in a small town in the provinces. That's not snobbery, that's fact.

I have an extremely well regarded MBA. I got onto this programme by having a 1st from Trinity alongside the required work experience. This in turn opened up the doors that allowed me to have the career I now have. I wouldn't have the job (or indeed the view) I now have if I had taken the easy option of arsing around getting a 3rd rate MBA from Smurfit Business School in UCD.

I notice that you don't mention what the original degree was or where the "well regarded" MBA came from. Only trinity had the snob value.

Eugene Norman

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Are you joking?

Actually on average a STEM degree from the worst rated American college earns more than a non STEM degree from the top American colleges. Make of that what you will.