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Waterford GAA Discussion Thread 3 Updated Mod Note Post 1

Hammer Archer

New thread continued from here.

Welcome to the Waterford GAA discussion thread.

This is consistently the most active thread don the GAA forum. As a result, discussion can get quite heated. But there are certain things posters must realise are simply not OK to post:

- Personal abuse of anyone be they other posters, players, managers, referees, pundits etc. Any personal abuse will result in an infraction or a ban.

- Rumours about players'/managers'/anyone's personal lives. This should be self explanatory. Apart from being a dickish thing to do, it can lead to legal trouble for Boards.

- Trolling. Again, self explanatory. Trolls will be banned for a long time.

- Accusations of trolling. Report a post if you suspect it to be trolling. Do not call a troll out on thread as this will be considered back seat modding.

- Speculation into the identity of another poster. This is a site-bannable offence.

This list is not exhaustive. Either myself or another mod may add to this as we see fit. Just because a certain behaviour isn't listed, doesn't mean you can't be banned for it.
The general Boards.ie rule of Don't be a Dick always applies.

If you feel a post breaks the rules, simply click this underneath the post in question to report the post and a mod will deal with it as they see fit.

So be civil to each other and happy posting.

***EDIT (20/11/2015): Quite frankly I'm getting a bit sick of the thread regularly descending into tit for tat insults between posters. From now on, it won't be a card but a ban straight away for anything like this. The mod warning is clear in the first post but yet people still ignore it.
Also, I'd like to remind people of the ban on discussing players'/managers'/officials' private lives without any substance. You can be getting into libelous territory there. So a zero tolerance policy will be enforced as well.

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KevIRL

Deise189 wrote: »

Is it unreserved seating again for the league final?

Yep

Deisegodeo

The blue blaa wrote: »

Who's Dermot Dooley when he's at home?
And what did he mean by that exactly?

Dermot Dooley is manager of the DLS school Harty cup team, right hand man of Derek McGrath's when they won the 2 Harty Cups and All Irelands. Both are teachers in the school. He was on with Matt Keane the other evening talking about the hurling, said the league final was fixed for Limerick. Thankfully he was mistaken and its Thurles. I'd still have a fear whenever we play Clare at a neutral venue that the powers that be want the game in Limerick. Unfounded i suppose as both games in the next few weeks are set for Thurles

Cake Man

The minors back out on Saturday v Tipp at Walsh park, any team named yet? Will there be many changes from the side that lost to Cork two weeks ago?
Plenty of speculation after that game that Billy Nolan should start outfield and on frees given we missed many easy ones the last day and lacked a general scoring threat up front. Hopefully too some lads who were quiet the last day have a bigger game (Tonto Douglas, Jack Prendergast). Conor Dalton seemed to do well when brought on the last day too so he could be in for a start.

As mentioned in the post mortem after that Cork game, it would seem that it was no big deal to lose as long as we learned something from the game and could identify our best team for the next day. With a game under our belts and it being Tipp's first game and home advantage, hopefully that gives us an edge to pull through.

cul beag

Cake Man wrote: »

The minors back out on Saturday v Tipp at Walsh park, any team named yet? Will there be many changes from the side that lost to Cork two weeks ago?
Plenty of speculation after that game that Billy Nolan should start outfield and on frees given we missed many easy ones the last day and lacked a general scoring threat up front. Hopefully too some lads who were quiet the last day have a bigger game (Tonto Douglas, Jack Prendergast). Conor Dalton seemed to do well when brought on the last day too so he could be in for a start.

As mentioned in the post mortem after that Cork game, it would seem that it was no big deal to lose as long as we learned something from the game and could identify our best team for the next day. With a game under our belts and it being Tipp's first game and home advantage, hopefully that gives us an edge to pull through.

One of the main problems is the selector that is building the team around his son. When that"elephant in the room" is dealt with maybe then we can move forward. He had him doing everything the last night bar taking the puckouts for Billy Nolan in goal. Nolan has to start in the forwards on Sat and HAS to be on the frees! Stop this sh**e that was going on in this county for years of clubs looking after their own. The management need to be strong and stand up to this farce the next day.

conditioned games

There should be a rule at county level if you have a son on the panel then it disqualifies you from been a member of the management team. Far too much conflict of interest and favouritism when the team is been picked and deciding who plays where. More hassle than it's worth and better off without it.

Deskjockey

conditioned games wrote: »

There should be a rule at county level if you have a son on the panel then it disqualifies you from been a member of the management team. Far too much conflict of interest and favouritism when the team is been picked and deciding who plays where. More hassle than it's worth and better off without it.

We must tell that to our friends in North Waterford, and that Mr Cody should definitely retire as his son is on the panel

The blue blaa

Deskjockey wrote: »

We must tell that to our friends in North Waterford, and that Mr Cody should definitely retire as his son is on the panel

I think he means under age hurling to be fair. I would agree with him also. There is 2 mentors with sons involved.

Interesting that Pat Bennett has taken 3 of the 4 sessions since the Cork game. And they have brought in players into panel who weren't interested all along due to exams. Interesting to see if they play Saturday.

Overall if what is being touted that Pat has taken a hands on role I'd have to question why these lads got the job in the first place, we have proven coaches in all the top clubs and yet not one minor A club has a coach involved in any capacity. This was eveident in their team selection. Players all over the shop playing out of position

hurler on de ditch

conditioned games wrote: »

There should be a rule at county level if you have a son on the panel then it disqualifies you from been a member of the management team. Far too much conflict of interest and favouritism when the team is been picked and deciding who plays where. More hassle than it's worth and better off without it.[/QUOTE,,,,,if your'e real man who has balls and honesty selecting your son or not selecting him should not be a problem ,if you feel he is HONESTLY good enough to play pick him,if not leave him out ,,not sure how many managers have had sons on panels ,but the one that sticks out to me is Brian Cody,but that man has honesty and balls

JesusRef

Look the guy ye are all talking about was on the panel last year and was brought on against tipp and his father had nothing to do with the scene, he was also close to the panel the year before and trained a bit with them - so it's not like he is no where near good enough.

On another note Billy Nolan should be outfield and on the frees though - he is one of the best free takers in the county never mind just at minor - hopefully the selectors have some sense.

courtylad

danganabu wrote: »

It doesn't happen at inter county level at all, I certainly don't remember the last game that was abandoned other than because of weather.

And what were the perspective Ulster and AI champions ( 1992 was the year) playing Waterford in, with all due respect?

I'm from Tyrone.

courtylad

That is an idiotic rule - if your son/relative is involved you cant be involved?

E.g.
Derek Lyons 2014 Minor Hurling manager - Darragh Lyons (Now which one do we drop? Father or Son?)
Oran Curran 2014 Minor Football Manager - Donnanacha Curran (didnt start)
Mickey Harte - Peter Harte (Tyrone) (Nephew)

GAA was and has always been built around a father being in charge.

If Thats the case we better strip Offaly of their 1982 all ireland where they stopped Kerry winning the five in a row. Because Ritchie, Matt, Liam, Tomas, Murt O' Connor all started on that team and McGee was married to their sister.
And im sure every club in the country will get titles from u10 - Senior stripped once or twice over. Derek played Darragh and we got and All ireland Semi-Final.

Just because Douglas can take frees for DLS doesnt mean he is to take them in the match. So players cant hack the pressure being watched by 2000 - 80000. I could put the big ball over from anywhere around or inside the 45 in training or friendly matches but when it came to crowds for tyrone i couldnt, the likes of Kavanagh stepped up. Morale of the story, it takes serious bottle to take frees with that many eyes on you. Murray seems to not be able to either and id move him out of centre back for the next day. Cathal Curran is a savage free taker. He seems to step up under the cosh.

courtylad

The blue blaa wrote: »

I think he means under age hurling to be fair. I would agree with him also. There is 2 mentors with sons involved.

Interesting that Pat Bennett has taken 3 of the 4 sessions since the Cork game. And they have brought in players into panel who weren't interested all along due to exams. Interesting to see if they play Saturday.

Overall if what is being touted that Pat has taken a hands on role I'd have to question why these lads got the job in the first place, we have proven coaches in all the top clubs and yet not one minor A club has a coach involved in any capacity. This was eveident in their team selection. Players all over the shop playing out of position

Minor A and County Minor Manager is like comparing a Junior B manager to a County Senior Manager. No manager at Minor A is scouting opposition unless its a semi final. When your on the sidelines as a manager your concerned with your players and your philosophy not taking a list of players names in case they call you up to be a selector for County Minor.

Coaching at this level in Waterford is just drills, that lack motivators, if you have a quality coach I can guarantee you he's not managing Minor. Fathers of players manage Minor in most cases and the 15 is nearly the same from u14 +.

If a management staff had a bit of sense they'd adopt a proper philosophy.
This is what we did 5 years ago when I was a county minor selector/trainer then manager in Lenister for Football. Just after pasting it over from word, and changed football to hurling.

2011/2012 My Notes:
Out of bracket for me, Inside brackets for subordinates.
1) (We will be successful, we will be here next year, we have the boys focus on the first round of championship, our focus is on building the development structure within this county. Remember scouting is mandatory in our agreement with the county board).
2) Assemble three selectors, 1 trainer and four scouts.
3) Get a list of all players from each club eligible for county minor next year.
4) Do Rota and schedule for club minor matches. (Make sure every club is seen twice at Division 3 & 4, three times at Division 1 & 2).
5) Talk with county board to ensure each person sees each team two - three times. (Spacing out matches by two hours).
6) Remind before attending each match to get the team sheets off the ref copied down before each game starts. (Do not allow the Referee to start until you have collected the team-sheets with players numbers).
7) Assess each player individually using performance grading sheet. (The PGS is available in the group chat, remember to assess each player regardless if they come off the bench. Note size roughly and vaguely, e.g Tall, Stocky etc in the Phenotype section. Note in the ability section, Not Worthwhile Pursuing (NWP) - Fair (F) - Good (G) - Standout (SO) - Must Have (MH).Further information in the 20 page coaching and guidelines handout given at our backroom staff meeting).
8) Continue using this system until the end of Championship. (From the league until the end of the knockout championship finals we will use this system).
9) Following championship, one week later, arrange a trial match with all players G+ on the ability scale. Excluding the remaining county minors from last year. (We will assess further roughly 60 players cutting 60 to about 20, we will call them in three different groups, friday night (North), saturday morning (South), sunday morning (Middle)).
10) Exclude current county minors from playing in the u17 championship. (We are allowing them to rest and focus on their studies).
11) Cut the panel to fourty after three weeks.
12) There will be a minimum of 8 brought onto the team eligible to play next year. (There will be 12 from our panel this year on it next year including 38 new faces).
12) After the u17 championship begin Pre-season. Cut your panel to 40. This 40 will play in the Leinster league.
13) Begin season training. Heavy Fitness workload. 800 x 5 pre training. 600 x 4 after training. (We will be working on a high intensity game this season where without the ball we drop into our 45, when they enter our 45 only then will we tackle, using zonal marking. Once obtaining the ball we will play a possession based game, see further information on 2011/2012 plans in the handout or alternatively check Ulster GAA Level 1-3 coaching on youtube).
13) After the Leinster League cut your panel to 32-34. (The players dropped will be assessed further during their minor league campaigns).
14) Reduce training workload to Light, avoid injuries, working on tactical positioning, lateral movements, team cohesion, hand-passing, kicking and catching skills.
15) Name Team, play Leinster, win Leinster, win All Ireland. (This will be our year and next year we will do the double).

That above require 8 all ireland medals to work through every little detail that resulted in teams winning Leinster and running close the the AL series.
I re-state, having a Minor A manager a selector is a ridiculous idea, having a proper scouting and networking system in place, now that's smart. Lack of preparation is what loses matches, you need to be tactically ahead.

Now I have played Senior Club hurling and I was good enough being from Tyrone and have a strong interest in the game and I am 100% confident that the lads coaching the co minor hurlers and pat bennett are more aware about hurling drills than I am, however I am 100% sure id get a team farther than they would for the simple reason they are approaching this team wrong. It is management, a manager's job is to man-manage his subordinates, bringing in the right coaches, like Pat Bennett, squad harmony, team cohesion. I know how to set up an team and the current minor manager and selectors probably know how to coach a team but they definitely don't know how to manage a team. Every single player was played out of position in my opinion, this team should get in somebody with a business management and statistics degree because a team is like a business and the coaches dont have an idea of maangement between them. Its a bad day when you go to the stand for technical advice. You dont put your chocolate beside your frozen foods and you dont put the deli in the alcohol section. Brian Cody realized that, Jim McGuiness realized it. Sport is done on a 100% scale. 45% Management, 45% Psychological, 10% coaching. That team I saw lacked 90% of a successful team, they lacked organisation and they lacked the bite of putting your head where other lads wouldnt dare put their boots. Wake up and smell the gravy lads.

conditioned games

The rule would be for underage county teams and if the son is going to trials with that county team then it rules out the father been part of the management. All panel members can then be dealt with equally. Is that not a fairer solution to everyone else on the panel?

cul beag

Deskjockey wrote: »

We must tell that to our friends in North Waterford, and that Mr Cody should definitely retire as his son is on the panel

In fairness he has set the league on fire with his performances for Kilkenny alright!! Difference being Cody won't be afraid to make the hard calls,lets see will our fellas do the same.

courtylad

conditioned games wrote: »

The rule would be for underage county teams and if the son is going to trials with that county team then it rules out the father been part of the management. All panel members can then be dealt with equally. Is that not a fairer solution to everyone else on the panel?

Don't believe in that now. Eoghan Murray was starting either way, show me an example of nepotism in that team, noting Murray takes Cappoquin frees.

The blue blaa

conditioned games wrote: »

The rule would be for underage county teams and if the son is going to trials with that county team then it rules out the father been part of the management. All panel members can then be dealt with equally. Is that not a fairer solution to everyone else on the panel?

Maybe common sense is not readily available in Tyrone as much as spoofing is..

The blue blaa

courtylad wrote: »

Don't believe in that now. Eoghan Murray was starting either way, show me an example of nepotism in that team, noting Murray takes Cappoquin frees.

He wont be taking any frees in cappoquinn for a while

mountgomery burns

Courtylad posts are a bit like Brickeyvalleys...

courtylad

cul beag wrote: »

In fairness he has set the league on fire with his performances for Kilkenny alright!! Difference being Cody won't be afraid to make the hard calls,lets see will our fellas do the same.

When you start centre back for kilkenny u21 I think that merits a league chance. I think a few of ye are watching Rory stories a wee bit too much when it comes to nepotism.

courtylad

mountgomery burns wrote: »

Courtylad posts are a bit like Brickeyvalleys...

Who? Drift wee bit in and out of the boards, often an absence due to work. I live between Stradbally and Balinacourty in the posh part.

courtylad

The blue blaa wrote: »

He wont be taking any frees in cappoquinn for a while

I don't know how he was talking them in the first place. Surely Nolan warrants the call up even its from nets? Like somebody can stand in until he gets back. He has a decent turn over speaking statistically.

conditioned games

courtylad wrote: »

Who? Drift wee bit in and out of the boards, often an absence due to work. I live between Stradbally and Balinacourty in the posh part.

Oh ya that must be it. Your man from Brickeys did similar spoofing as well, actually he was saying Waterford would win an all Ireland in football within 5 yrsðŸ˜² Good to know you live in the posh part

cul beag

courtylad wrote: »

Don't believe in that now. Eoghan Murray was starting either way, show me an example of nepotism in that team, noting Murray takes Cappoquin frees.

Murray transferred to Ballyduff Upper this along with his father as he had to be a member of a club to take up his position. Which leads me to ask what club is Pat Bennett a member of this year?!!

JesusRef

I don't think it is fair game to single out a minor like this lad has been on this forum.

These are young lads - might not even be old enough to drink - keep the talk general not specific to one.

Shameful stuff to be honest

PTH2009

I always wondered how selectors for intercounty teams can judge a player from seeing them perform in horrendus winter conditions. Being a selector would be a hard job I'd say. Would guys like Donal og with Clare, the rock with cork and Damien fitzhenry with Wexford be selectors or coaches ??

Who is Derek McGrath's Donal og ???

conditioned games

JesusRef wrote: »

I don't think it is fair game to single out a minor like this lad has been on this forum.

These are young lads - might not even be old enough to drink - keep the talk general not specific to one.

Shameful stuff to be honest

Your right, it's awful stuff, shocking really. There should no discussion on it at all for fear of upsetting someone and we'll all ignore the obvious.

JesusRef

conditioned games wrote: »

Your right, it's awful stuff, shocking really. There should no discussion on it at all for fear of upsetting someone and we'll all ignore the obvious.

I said keep it general - but singling out a player who could actually legally be still seen as a child is disgusting in my book...

Giveitfong

Keith Duggan of the Irish Times finished his report on last Sunday’s game with the sentence: “They (Waterford) have the stuff of history about them”.

Interestingly, the same thought struck me as I watched the team change gear and demolish Limerick in the second half. I’m not normally given to such flights of fancy. As a Déise supporter of nearly sixty years standing, my normal sensation during games has been one of foreboding and fear of imminent disaster.

I did have a feeling just once before that Waterford’s time had come, when they made a miraculous recovery to snatch a draw against Cork in the 2007 quarter final and then blew the Rebels away in the replay. And look how that turned out.

But this is all-round a stronger team than 2007, with a much stronger bench and Pauric Mahony and Stephen Bennett on their way back to first team duty. They are young and will improve further.

Maybe the repeated disappointments over the decades have hastened the onset of dementia in this ageing Déise devotee, rendered crazy after all these years. Or maybe…

hurler on de ditch

conditioned games wrote: »

The rule would be for underage county teams and if the son is going to trials with that county team then it rules out the father been part of the management. All panel members can then be dealt with equally. Is that not a fairer solution to everyone else on the panel?[/QUOTE,,nonsense

PTH2009

Giveitfong wrote: »

Keith Duggan of the Irish Times finished his report on last Sunday’s game with the sentence: “They (Waterford) have the stuff of history about them”.

Interestingly, the same thought struck me as I watched the team change gear and demolish Limerick in the second half. I’m not normally given to such flights of fancy. As a Déise supporter of nearly sixty years standing, my normal sensation during games has been one of foreboding and fear of imminent disaster.

I did have a feeling just once before that Waterford’s time had come, when they made a miraculous recovery to snatch a draw against Cork in the 2007 quarter final and then blew the Rebels away in the replay. And look how that turned out.

But this is all-round a stronger team than 2007, with a much stronger bench and Pauric Mahony and Stephen Bennett on their way back to first team duty. They are young and will improve further.

Maybe the repeated disappointments over the decades have hastened the onset of dementia in this ageing Déise devotee, rendered crazy after all these years. Or maybe…

This Clare team are going to be history makers too. Tipperary,kilkenny will always be there Limerick will get there eventually, Galway, Dublin,Cork and Wexford can be hot or cold but could win an all Ireland if they put there minds to it.

It's just a Waterford thing that every supporter feels like its going to emplode any minute and we don't do things easy. We get more joy out of winning a championship game than kilkenny supporters do out of winning an all Ireland.

This Waterford team fears nobody and most are proven winners with minor all Irelands, Munster's, fitzgibbons cups, schools competitions. 2014 was a mystery and a giant feck up but the 2014 team is a pale shadow of what the 2015/2016 team is.