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Child Item

Phoenix Park tragedy

SnakePlissken

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/courts/man-drank-litre-of-vodka-and-took-cocaine-before-knocking-down-and-killing-toddler-in-phoenix-park-34640443.html

Absolutely heartbreaking story here about the death of a two year old innocently enjoying the Pheonix Park with her family. As a father I can but imagine the absolute horror her mother witnessed on that day. I do hope she and her partner have all the support and love they need to have some semblance of joy return to their lives.

What I find truly appaling however is the sentence the absolute scum received for taking this child's life... five years, is that all the value our justice system sees in the life of a child?

It's been said many times before that our judges are soft-touches, or perhaps their hands are simply tied by the limits of what the law affords them, but really, the moaning and the indignation has not gotten us anywhere. So I ask, how can we reform our justice system so that the punishment better fits the crime? We've already witnessed great efforts in the decommisioning of Irish Water, what do we need to do, and who do we need to confront about our ineffective justice system?

I for one believe that this stain on society, Ciaran Lane, should not enjoy freedom for a minimum of 15-20 years. What he did was not premeditated but it was most certainly highly avoidable had he not behaved in such a despicable manner.

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El_Duderino 09

SnakePlissken wrote:

Teenager? He was 24 at the time of the hit and run. Please read up on this case before posting nonsense just to be contrary. You're really showing yourself up here

You're right. The last line about his age threw me.

One eyed Jack wrote:

Personally, I don't see how 3, 5, 10, 20 years is going to make any difference. It's pointless trying to give justice to the family when what they lost that day can never be restored.

This is exactly it.

One eyed Jack wrote:

I don't think it's fair to ask anyone do they actually agree with the sentencing. I'd have hated to be in the Judge's position because any sentence they handed down would never be 'enough' for some people. It wouldn't matter what sentence was handed down anyway as it's not going to change the tragic circumstances for the family of the infant.

No sentence will bring the child back, which is ultimately, the only thing that could redress the imbalance. Beating him, murdering him, calling him names, locking him up, telling him he was a very very bad boy, won't do anything for the child or the parents.

twowheelsonly wrote:

It might be overturned, then again it might not. It shouldn't be the Judges job to pre-empt this. In this case it's a hard enough call. IMO he should have gotten longer given his history but it's hard enough to put a number on it. If an 'ordinary' drunk driver (no previous, no cocaine..) killed the child what should they get ?

The fellas history should count against him though. Cars aren't for everyone IMO.

MarkAnthony

JustTheOne wrote: »

Eh it might deter another idiot from drinking a bottle of vodka and hopping behind the wheel of a car and killing a kid again?

Seriously what message does 5 years send out?

I guarantee you we'll see a story in a few years time at how this lad was picked up doing something stupid notwithstanding his 20 year ban. I guarantee you it will not result in a custodial sentence.

I have more of a problem with that than the five years in this case.I agree with One eyed Jack to a degree here that no matter what sentence was handed down it's not going to be enough.
I would have more of a problem with the five years in this case if we knew his previous driving record I suspect.
7 years as a maximum penalty though is an absolute joke and we should we ashamed of ourselves frankly.

JustTheOne

MarkAnthony wrote: »

I guarantee you we'll see a story in a few years time at how this lad was picked up doing something stupid notwithstanding his 20 year ban. I guarantee you it will not result in a custodial sentence.

I have more of a problem with that than the five years in this case.I agree with One eyed Jack to a degree here that no matter what sentence was handed down it's not going to be enough.
I would have more of a problem with the five years in this case if we knew his previous driving record I suspect.
7 years as a maximum penalty though is an absolute joke and we should we ashamed of ourselves frankly.

But there needs to be punishment in life to act as a deterrent.

Richard Hillman

I actually got quite emotional seeing the picture of the child on the news earlier. I cannot even imagine how mentally scarring it would have been for the parents to be present for such a thing.

This judge is not fit for such a role.

vicwatson

Richard Hillman wrote: »

I actually got quite emotional seeing the picture of the child on the news earlier. I cannot even imagine how mentally scarring it would have been for the parents to be present for such a thing.

This judge is not fit for such a role.

Weird, so did I, you just feel that the little child has lost its life due to an absolute **** of a human. So innocent and gone in a moment. On a beautiful evening in the park and gone forever in a minute.

[Deleted User]

KERSPLAT! wrote: »

Do you agree with the sentencing?

Think it could have been a year or 2 more.

But certainly not outraged. From that generation of people from rural Ireland where loads of us sat into a car drunk and drove. Yeah, some circumstances (beyond the death of the child) make this worse, the area, drugs, the fact that there was no need to drive in a city full of taxis etc. But frankly don't have the "one of the worst crimes" attitude to drink driving.

Vic_08

One eyed Jack wrote: »

I don't think it's fair to ask anyone do they actually agree with the sentencing. I'd have hated to be in the Judge's position because any sentence they handed down would never be 'enough' for some people. It wouldn't matter what sentence was handed down anyway as it's not going to change the tragic circumstances for the family of the infant.

Personally, I don't see how 3, 5, 10, 20 years is going to make any difference. It's pointless trying to give justice to the family when what they lost that day can never be restored.

Because if they are in the 'joy then they won't be able to do it again and again and again...

An example from yesterday: Scumbag who killed 2 Gardai in 2002 is now back out and guess what, driving again; no licence, no insurance and still gets suspended sentence.

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/courts/freed-driver-previously-banned-for-killing-two-gardai-is-caught-driving-again-but-avoids-jail-34637831.html

OT but whatever "security" company that is I wouldn't want them securing anything of mine with scum like that.

arybvtcw0eolkf

Slydice wrote: »

I pass the spot in the phoenix park on my way to work. They've put flowers and teddies and lit candles every day I can remember. Very sad

I was about to post the same thing.

I'm reminded of this tragedy daily by the new flowers, teddy and candles.

Poor little angel.

May she rest in peace.

As for the rest, the animal who murdered her, the sentence ~ I'm totally at a loss for words.

Markcheese

Personally I think sentances (in general ) should be longer, but I dont see much point in putting this particular asshole in jail for years...I wouldnt have a problem with him doing a year or so inside and 15 years odd suspended, tracked- curfewed- blood tested-
I just dont see the point in keeping non violent dicks inside- he doesnt have enough years left in his life to imprision him for vengence sake --

omahaid

To be honest nothing surprises me when it comes to sentencing in this country

Non-payment of VAT on garlic - 6 years - ya that seems fair
Vodka, cocaine, kills a 2 year old - 5 years - ya that seems fair

MarkAnthony

JustTheOne wrote: »

But there needs to be punishment in life to act as a deterrent.

I completely agree. The issue with long sentences is they don't act as a deterrent. That said there comes a point, and it should be coming waaaaaay earlier in Ireland where we say enough is enough you're in for the long hall. No one is willing to pay for it though.

MarkAnthony

omahaid wrote: »

To be honest nothing surprises me when it comes to sentencing in this country

Non-payment of VAT on garlic - 6 years - ya that seems fair
Vodka, cocaine, kills a 2 year old - 5 years - ya that seems fair

Seriously feck off with this. Every fecking thread. In the same breath we go on about how white collar crime isn't punished and how that's a disgrace.

Sorry it's you getting the tail end of this one but I'm so fed up with this analogy constantly coming up by someone (not necessarily you) in every single sentencing thread.

It's counter productive to compare sentencing for two completely different crimes. You end up with stupid sentencing decisions based on how it looks rather than what's fair for a specific crime. Get that sorted first them worry about the looks.

JupiterKid

What a horrible tragedy - to have your dear child taken away from you forever. I can't imagine what the toddler's parents have been going through.

But 5 years is far too lenient a sentence.

[Deleted User]

omahaid wrote: »

To be honest nothing surprises me when it comes to sentencing in this country

Non-payment of VAT on garlic - 6 years - ya that seems fair
Vodka, cocaine, kills a 2 year old - 5 years - ya that seems fair

The first sentence was reduced to 2 years on appeal.

You would accept that the crimes were completely different, and the intent in both different, one of them was a carefully orchestrated swindle.

InReality

the families statement is tough to read, but worth it.

septictank

I don't know him but know the group of lads from Ashington Ave that used to hang around together, they were a right pain in the arse, burning and breaking things in the area.

One of them made the papers as a dealer in a wheelchair who got locked up.

The sentence was ridiculous, the only reason the Judge gave the stupid sentence as far as I can see is because the guy did not leave the road and drive on the grass and the child had wandered out onto the road.

gormdubhgorm

I looked at the article.
The judge said "the only mitigating factor was that Vanessa Siatka was on the road".

So I supposed this resulted in the lighter sentence as it was reckless but not intentional.

Intent is important as is the fact that the child was on the road.

Augme

Cortina_MK_IV wrote: »

Out in 3, may have been trained with some skills/Open University course to enable him to get back into society. Head across the water and get a new job all possibly before he hits 29?

Is this not a good thing though? One of the purposes of prison is to reform people.

JustTheOne wrote: »

Eh it might deter another idiot from drinking a bottle of vodka and hopping behind the wheel of a car and killing a kid again?

Seriously what message does 5 years send out?

lol. Come on, you really think the sort of person who would be willing to drink a bottle of vodka, snort coke and drive would actually be deterred from doing that because this guy got a long sentence?

AudreyHepburn

I went for walk in the park earlier this evening and passed by the spot where Vanessa died......the photographs and teddies would break your heart.

5 years is not enough.....tbh I don't think you could pick a long enough time frame for some-one with a string of convictions including one for dangerous driving, who not only got high but drove under the influence only to hit a child and flee the scene.

He was either so out of it he didn't know what he was doing or he has no conscience.

And whenever he is let out he should never be let behind the wheel of a car again.

RIP Vanessa

SEPT 23 1989

omahaid wrote: »

To be honest nothing surprises me when it comes to sentencing in this country

Non-payment of VAT on garlic - 6 years - ya that seems fair
Vodka, cocaine, kills a 2 year old - 5 years - ya that seems fair

Drunk coked up headcase didn't take money from the state like garlic man did

The state comes down hard on that sort of thing once the offender isn't connected of course

Little girls dying in the park is of no consequence to them

[Deleted User]

SEPT 23 1989 wrote: »

Little girls dying in the park is of no consequence to them

Um...the sentence today was 3 years longer tha the tax fraud, 2.5 times longer.

You may not think it enough, but to say it is of no consequence?

MarkAnthony

Augme wrote: »

lol. Come on, you really think the sort of person who would be willing to drink a bottle of vodka, snort coke and drive would actually be deterred from doing that because this guy got a long sentence?

I'm actually not sure. Irish hoods are generally pussies - there are some genuine hardmen out there for sure, I'd to think some of them would have done the decent thing in a case like this and blown their brains out if they'd done something like this, probably not.

The sad truth about these lads is they're borne out of the 'ah it's just kids', 'boys will be boys' and 'ah sure it'll be grand' so many idiots seem to raise their kids with. Pure neglect and no one to show them right from wrong.

Personally I'm willing to take the chance of feck all changing by making a few examples.

mosesgun

Whatever way you look at it, A little girl was killed by this maniac and her poor family are devastated. There's no way on this earth that 5 years is enough of a punishment for that, it's not even close. When that toe rag is released, he'll probably still be in his late twenties with his whole life ahead of him. That is not justice.

Lady is a tramp

I guess I can see two sides. I'm the mammy of a gorgeous adorable little toddler. But I'm an alcoholic, too, and I've gone through (many) residential treatments with other alcoholics. Many of them men, and many of them were dads themselves. And they admitted, in group therapy, to regular drink driving.

And knowing that they were wonderful decent men didn't make it OK. Not at all. And, Christ, if they could have taken it all back .... they absolutely would've.

I get it, though. That total loss of control ... and I feel for that driver. But for the grace of a god I don't believe in ...

[Deleted User]

Lady is a tramp wrote: »

But I'm an alcoholic, too, and I've gone through (many) residential treatments with other alcoholics. Many of them men, and many of them were dads themselves. And they admitted, in group therapy, to regular drink driving.

And knowing that they were wonderful decent men didn't make it OK. Not at all. And, Christ, if they could have taken it all back .... they absolutely would've.

It's not even about alcoholism.

Or taking it back.

Or being wonderful or not.

Most of my friends drink and drove, as did I. In rural Ireland, right into the 90s, it was a way of having a social life and simply getting home. We don't look back now and think we'd take it back or that we weren't decent men.

Ursus Horribilis

This is a heartbreaking case but it's going to happen again and again. With the laws and policing we have here, there are no consequences really for people who drive like this. From what I can see, people who want to drive like lunatics, do doughnuts and endanger lives can do do without any real risk of being punished.

12Phase

Sentencing here can be infuriatingly random though.

The ruling on suspended sentences might finally bring some sense to it.

It was an absolutely horrible incident and wasted life.
My deepest condolences to the family. Just unimaginable stuff.

Wanderer78

I hope they do everything to rehabilitate this man. Dreadful tragedy

Superhorse

Wanderer78 wrote: »

I hope they do everything to rehabilitate this man. Dreadful tragedy

I hope he gets his head caved in in prison and dies a horrible slow painful death screaming for his mammy. Rehab will you ever feck off with that rubbish.

thattequilagirl

Superhorse wrote: »

I hope he gets his head caved in in prison and dies a horrible slow painful death screaming for his mammy. Rehab will you ever feck off with that rubbish.

Is that really the kind of society you want to live in?

It depends on what you think the justice system is about: punishment, deterrent or rehabilitation. I think it should be about all three. Ultimately there is no sentence that will give that family comfort. The man made a stupid and selfish decision to get ****ed up on drugs and drink and get behind the wheel of a car, but he's not a murderer, he had no intention to kill the poor child.

His police statement has been taken out of context, the judge said in his ruling that the man showed deep remorse.