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Milk Price- Please read Mod note in post #1

delaval

24/6/16

Recently we saw three posters close their accounts over disagreements in the dairy threads. While there is a lot of frustration and discontent with current milk prices and the processing industry, the recent tendency for dairy threads to become tit-for-tat arguments isn’t tolerable for those not involved.

All farming sectors go through difficult periods and during such times there may need to be changes in how threads are moderated.

Dairy threads are going to be more closely monitored and subject to stricter moderation for a while.

To that end we won’t tolerate baiting of posters, constantly reviving old arguments, posters with agendas or crusading for a cause.

Whether it’s discussion of the business or politics of the dairy or other sectors, we expect civility and tolerance toward each other and other opinions as diversity of opinion is needed as a source of different ways of looking at a situation.

"The aim of argument, or of discussion, should not be victory, but progress." - Joseph Joubert

Also please be aware that what you may post as light-hearted banter can be read totally differently by someone adversely affected by the subject matter and evoke a reaction you hadn’t intended.

The ‘Off-Season’ forum, and its anonymous posting, is available for anyone to chat about their situation.

The Mod Team.

I was wondering would it be a help if we posted our milk prices. I would hope that if someone is low that help could be given, on the other hand if high perhaps your tips could help us all.

I would suggest posting your processors base inc Vat for comparison
Post your Nett price for others to help or be helped
I think that solids should be included.
I suggest any seasonal/liquid contract price be excluded or seperated.

I feel that we as farmers do a lot of bitching about processor prices and rightly so IMO. I also feel that we should not worry about it as we can do nothing about base price but we certainly do something about it at farm level.

What do you all think?

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kowtow

Farmer Ed wrote: »

The idea that the co op would not take your milk is just probably the biggest lie ever spun by co ops in an effort to get people to sign contracts. Under co up law the co op is obliged to take all your milk if your a shareholder. That's the law full stop as for not taking new suppliers in times of poor milk price? Just a month ago almost every farmer who had gone to Arrabawn who met Dairygold reported they were asked to come back.

Apparently Dairygold mustn't have enough powder in stores.

The only thing I want a co-op to be obliged to do is collect my milk for a very small fee and take it (or an agreed quantity of a equal quality milk) to the highest bidder with whom I would prefer to have dealt direct.

The co-op has no more power to turn unwanted milk into money than anyone else. Less in fact, if the co-op only has a drier and the market wants cheese.

There's no future in a business where the customer only buys because the law makes him.

Farmer Ed

kowtow wrote: »

The only thing I want a co-op to be obliged to do is collect my milk for a very small fee and take it (or an agreed quantity of a equal quality milk) to the highest bidder with whom I would prefer to have dealt direct.

The co-op has no more power to turn unwanted milk into money than anyone else. Less in fact, if the co-op only has a drier and the market wants cheese.

There's no future in a business where the customer only buys because the law makes him.

I don't disagree with you at all. In reality it should pan out exactly as you are suggesting. In fact on of the best paying co ops in the country process's no milk, but in effect just acts as an milk assembly agent for craft foods

kowtow

WheatenBriar wrote: »

Will GiiL reach Talbots 30 million profit target?
In context,if that target was reduced to €10 million ,that's €5000 to each of their suppliers divvied out if the €30 million surplus is reached

If it hasn't a hope of being reached,it begs the question this time with CAPITAL letters why it was decided to shaft the supplier to aim for that in the first place

What do you think Talbot and co would do if GiiL became loss making,would they have the balls to dump it?
Would that prompt the board to actually act in farmers interests finally?

Havent looked at the deal for ages but if I remember there would possibly be an akward scenario - GIIL board duty is to maximise profits of GIIL for all shareholders, even if board is farmer dominated they'd want to be careful of oppressing the minority (40%? - PLC) - so the PLC created quite a clever deal there by handing the farmers a "majority" when no-one realised that it might be a poisoned chalice...

I could be completely wrong if so someone please correct me ... its ages since I read the terms and even then only briefly as I have no involvement.

Brown Podzol

wats the craic wrote: »

fear of change is not a reason to stay put and be treated like gill slave . i was seen as a mad man when i left wmp to go strathroy it was jump into the unknow . but it was the best thing i have done has a farmer . althought i was our family founder memebers of wexford creamery nearly 60 yrs of history . see the likes of gil are banking on ye staying put but say up to 1000 suppliers say we have enough and we are out and moving to new coop how can they stop you . its time to rise up and fight for your farm and your families . cant depend on ifa they are worst than useless . arrange meeting in your areas talk to your local fellow suppliers find out they think act now , either that or as whelan said give out at the local ifa which is worthless . we have to get the support of the irish people behind us expose the wages of the glanbia management and what we get in return . if you ask any coop prvt they will tell you they hate glanbia , but they are scared to take them on . but if glanbia are fighting a revoultion with thier own suppliers den its game on and bergin will have a different smile on his smug face . we have to think outside the box and if that means forcing gill hand in changing the way they do bussiness so be it .

"The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man." GBS

keep going

in recent years i have had to look at the accounts of various food businesses and the thing that struck me is how low the margin is in dairy processing in ireland.

kowtow

keep going wrote: »

in recent years i have had to look at the accounts of various food businesses and the thing that struck me is how low the margin is in dairy processing in ireland.

Is this because we have such a high local cost base?

One way or another this is a very expensive country to do business in - unless of course you are supported by large amounts of FDI / grant funding or your profits are driven by value transfers from overseas markets to optimise tax & regulatory exposure (tech, fund management, pharma etc.)

Wages & associated costs are high and the local regulatory burden (in which I include insurance costs) is frightening.

keep going

kowtow wrote: »

Is this because we have such a high local cost base?

One way or another this is a very expensive country to do business in - unless of course you are supported by large amounts of FDI / grant funding or your profits are driven by value transfers from overseas markets to optimise tax & regulatory exposure (tech, fund management, pharma etc.)

Wages & associated costs are high and the local regulatory burden (in which I include insurance costs) is frightening.

could possibly be,but also is a sympton of a commodity driven business.but at the end of the day if you suggested to farmers we want to levy the milk to put a product develpoment fund in place which may not yield anything there be war.

Injuryprone

kowtow wrote: »

Its a market place allowing every farmer to contract directly with every and any processor on whatever terms they agree, fixed or otherwise. A sensible farmer might supply more than one processor and on different contracts.

The coops would just collect and deliver.

It would spawn new high value processors and force the others to compete for milk (and of course move prices realistically and rapidly when there is too much milk)

It would be a huge change and it would upset a lot of vested interests, but done properly it would be world leading and as important in its own way as the coop movement.

Connect the farmer closer to his customers (deliberate plural).

Why would anyone not do that?

I might have picked you up wrong but your proposal sounds very similar to how the beef industry operates. How would it be any different to how the beef processors coordinate the beef price?

alps

Panch18 wrote: »

The key to success (survival is probably a much more appropriate word here!!) is pumping milk that's like treacle, solids is the key combined with cost control

Get the maximum price that you can above base price, white water has no place in Irish milk production in current times

The key to success is to sell as much as you can for as little as you can....

High solids milk is nit that straightforward. ..

Looking through our end of year milk recording report I was amazed that cows we had picked out for culling on low solids (3.35p...Ave 3.69) had absolutely blitzed the rest in terms of euros output. All down through the sheet, euro turnover had nothing to do with solids. If the litres were there, the euros were there. No limitation in the amount of water you send in with your solids now..

Also..base milk price might be down 10c/l this year but yhe high solids operator is down 12/13c. This was very obvious last November, our price had dropped 16c from the previous Nov from a 10c base drop.

kowtow

The key is always to be able to feed multiple processors, overseas if need be.

There's a contradiction in Irish farming which is that the farmers behave as efficient and competitive (with each other) commodity producers while the processors are non competitive. This is not typical of a commodity marketplace- usually the mine owner can be sure of the market price even if it is lower than he would like.

Shelf life is an issue of course but I would have thought that added transparency would make the processors efficient in turn.

I don't know enough about beef to make the comparison but what stops additional processors joining the market in beef? If the existing players are abusing it there should be plenty of fat to compete for?

Dawggone

Had a curious meeting this am.

My Coop supply a newly opened baby formula plant that is north of me (Darragh_Haven knows it). Anyhow my milk goes directly to this plant and my Coop tell me that they are getting 28.75cpl for that milk and they pass it directly to me.
This morning an 'executive' from the baby powder plant rocks up to the farm saying that he's got an offer for me...
To secure future milk supplies he's offering 30cpl until July and they will offer 33cpl until November. Base price, 3.2pr and 3.8bf + vat...scc must be under 150k.
Hmmm....to secure future milk supplies...

What's going on?

Edit.
Scc 151 to 299 fined 6cpl.
Scc 300 to 400 fined 18cpl.
Minimum collection 13k litres

Timmaay

Dawggone wrote: »

Had a curious meeting this am.

My Coop supply a newly opened baby formula plant that is north of me (Darragh_Haven knows it). Anyhow my milk goes directly to this plant and my Coop tell me that they are getting 28.75cpl for that milk and they pass it directly to me.
This morning an 'executive' from the baby powder plant rocks up to the farm saying that he's got an offer for me...
To secure future milk supplies he's offering 30cpl until July and they will offer 33cpl until November. Base price, 3.2pr and 3.8bf + vat...scc must be under 150k.
Hmmm....to secure future milk supplies...

What's going on?

I'm moving to france...

Farmer Ed

Dawggone wrote: »

Had a curious meeting this am.

My Coop supply a newly opened baby formula plant that is north of me (Darragh_Haven knows it). Anyhow my milk goes directly to this plant and my Coop tell me that they are getting 28.75cpl for that milk and they pass it directly to me.
This morning an 'executive' from the baby powder plant rocks up to the farm saying that he's got an offer for me...
To secure future milk supplies he's offering 30cpl until July and they will offer 33cpl until November. Base price, 3.2pr and 3.8bf + vat...scc must be under 150k.
Hmmm....to secure future milk supplies...

What's going on?

Forget this grap over here. We should all just move to France.

Milked out

Dawggone wrote: »

Had a curious meeting this am.

My Coop supply a newly opened baby formula plant that is north of me (Darragh_Haven knows it). Anyhow my milk goes directly to this plant and my Coop tell me that they are getting 28.75cpl for that milk and they pass it directly to me.
This morning an 'executive' from the baby powder plant rocks up to the farm saying that he's got an offer for me...
To secure future milk supplies he's offering 30cpl until July and they will offer 33cpl until November. Base price, 3.2pr and 3.8bf + vat...scc must be under 150k.
Hmmm....to secure future milk supplies...

What's going on?

Edit.
Scc 151 to 299 fined 6cpl.
Scc 300 to 400 fined 18cpl.
Minimum collection 13k litres

Serious scc fines, you any issues staying under 151 in summer? You'd be wondering alright, if you took it and they started pulling price after Nov would you be caught then trying to move somewhere else as in would they take you back in coop?

keep going

great idea,i however am staying put;)

Panch18

Farmer Ed wrote: »

The idea that the co op would not take your milk is just probably the biggest lie ever spun by co ops in an effort to get people to sign contracts. Under co up law the co op is obliged to take all your milk if your a shareholder. That's the law full stop as for not taking new suppliers in times of poor milk price? Just a month ago almost every farmer who had gone to Arrabawn who met Dairygold reported they were asked to come back.

Apparently Dairygold mustn't have enough powder in stores.

With Kowtow's idea the coop as we know it would not exist - so no they would be under no obiligation to collect it

Panch18

kowtow wrote: »

Its a market place allowing every farmer to contract directly with every and any processor on whatever terms they agree, fixed or otherwise. A sensible farmer might supply more than one processor and on different contracts.

The coops would just collect and deliver.

It would spawn new high value processors and force the others to compete for milk (and of course move prices realistically and rapidly when there is too much milk)

It would be a huge change and it would upset a lot of vested interests, but done properly it would be world leading and as important in its own way as the coop movement.

Connect the farmer closer to his customers (deliberate plural).

Why would anyone not do that?

Sorry but why would Danone or Nestle or whoever agree individual contracts with literally thousands of irish dairy farmers when they can phone up glanbia or dairygold and say drop us down a few ton of powder there on Monday and only have to mess around with 1 or 2 contracts?

Buford T. Justice XIX

Panch18 wrote: »

Sorry but why would Danone or Nestle or whoever agree individual contracts with literally thousands of irish dairy farmers when they can phone up glanbia or dairygold and say drop us down a few ton of powder there on Monday and only have to mess around with 1 or 2 contracts?

Because they love us???

kowtow

Panch18 wrote: »

With Kowtow's idea the coop as we know it would not exist - so no they would be under no obiligation to collect it

No reason why they can't be obliged to collect as they are today. In fact they can comfortably be given geographical monopolies without any danger to the farmer's profits - they would still have the milk collection charges, inputs, retail etc.

In fact there would be no reason why they can't also maintain their own processing businesses, as long as the obligation to collect and distribute is transparent and separate. I'm sure many people would choose to have at least some milk going into their existing local co-op and they could continue to do so... but the opportunity for the co-op to get fat and lazy or greedy while monopolising a milk supply would vanish..

Equally farmers wanting to invest in and profit from value added processing wherever it is in the country could be free to do so, with or without an attendant milk supply agreement for all or some of their milk.

Think of it as "virtual co-ops"

kowtow

Panch18 wrote: »

Sorry but why would Danone or Nestle or whoever agree individual contracts with literally thousands of irish dairy farmers when they can phone up glanbia or dairygold and say drop us down a few ton of powder there on Monday and only have to mess around with 1 or 2 contracts?

There need be nothing complicated in offering and bidding a standardised contract electronically. In fact it would save existing hedging costs as there is a broad spectrum of supply with different risk profiles.

At a different level the specific partnership with named farms allows supplier pools to exist more easily - giving traceability / publicity & a back story to products - as the supermarkets now do in the UK.

Where appropriate milk can conceivably be dried on contract at the delivery point...

all in all that type of system is the way to maximise efficiency & competitiveness in a commodity market. If you look at wholesale markets for energy or telecommunications that is exactly how things are set up. British Telecom doesn't put up poles & cables in Nigeria or bury undersea cables unless it wants to, it buys capacity & bandwidth in real time at the best available price.

Which is one reason that I doubt very much it will happen here!

Henwin

any idea on what Kerry are paying for March milk?

WheatenBriar

My sources tell me GiiL aim to have the base price at 20cpl by june whether we like it or not
Theres board representation for ya...
Theres a leading price on your peak milk for ya....

Buford T. Justice XIX

Henwin wrote: »

any idea on what Kerry are paying for March milk?

As little as possible.

Talk of base of 24c but a lot depends on how much pressure is put on before AGM.

cjpm

Dawggone wrote: »

This morning an 'executive' from the baby powder plant rocks up to the farm saying that he's got an offer for me...
To secure future milk supplies he's offering 30cpl until July and they will offer 33cpl until November....

Any chance you have that fellas phone number....??

kevthegaff

So is glanbia 24 including ornua/glanbia top up? Any word on arrabawn?

whelan2

WheatenBriar wrote: »

My sources tell me GiiL aim to have the base price at 20cpl by june whether we like it or not
Theres board representation for ya...
Theres a leading price on your peak milk for ya....

Sure thats no problem, we all just lie down and let it happen

johnny122

wats the craic wrote: »

yes it always best to spread the costs around unless you want one company have you by the balls .this is going to be along painfull yr i think , and here i have just bought a new bulk tank

What tank did ya buy. Whts d. Thinking of one myself.

mahoney_j

kevthegaff wrote: »

So is glanbia 24 including ornua/glanbia top up? Any word on arrabawn?

Yes but it's 22 plus solids not 24 plus solids

Milked out

wats the craic wrote: »

fear of change is not a reason to stay put and be treated like gill slave . i was seen as a mad man when i left wmp to go strathroy it was jump into the unknow . but it was the best thing i have done has a farmer . althought i was our family founder memebers of wexford creamery nearly 60 yrs of history . see the likes of gil are banking on ye staying put but say up to 1000 suppliers say we have enough and we are out and moving to new coop how can they stop you . its time to rise up and fight for your farm and your families . cant depend on ifa they are worst than useless . arrange meeting in your areas talk to your local fellow suppliers find out they think act now , either that or as whelan said give out at the local ifa which is worthless . we have to get the support of the irish people behind us expose the wages of the glanbia management and what we get in return . if you ask any coop prvt they will tell you they hate glanbia , but they are scared to take them on . but if glanbia are fighting a revoultion with thier own suppliers den its game on and bergin will have a different smile on his smug face . we have to think outside the box and if that means forcing gill hand in changing the way they do bussiness so be it .

What are sthrathroy paying and at what solids?

WheatenBriar

Milked out wrote: »

What are sthrathroy paying and at what solids?

Last month 29c at 3.3 etc from a supplier who showed me his 1 page statement