Garda, nurses, teachers and doctor's pay

Rothmans wrote: »

Public servants should be paid just enough to prevent them from starving.

Did I or the respected economist Colm McCarthy in his excellent article in the paper say that? No.

Rothmans wrote: »

Public servants are responsible for the greed of the private sector during the boom.

Did I or anyone say that? No.

Rothmans wrote: »

Indeed, public servants are most likely responsible for all of the ills in society.

Did I or anyone say that? No.

It appears there are a lot of facts you cannot get right.

Rothmans

maryishere wrote: »

Did I or the respected economist Colm McCarthy in his excellent article in the paper say that? No.

Did I or anyone say that? No.

Did I or anyone say that? No.

It appears there are a lot of facts you cannot get right.

Keep fighting the good fight mary!

Esel

Newsflash #1: Panels expire. Usually in two years or less.

Newsflash #2: That's how the PAS rolls.

Otherwise, you could have a 50 year old applicant being called 25 years later.

So they run the game again, same rules.

Tough maybe, but probably fair.

Rothmans

Esel wrote: »

Newsflash #1: Panels expire. Usually in two years or less.

Newsflash #2: That's how the PAS rolls.

Otherwise, you could have a 50 year old applicant being called 25 years later.

So they run the game again, same rules.

Tough maybe, but probably fair.

Not the case with AGS. The last panel was active for 7 years. The 2013/14 is still active, and it there's no indication of it being scrapped. You could be awaiting a call to AGS for several years, and that's no exaggeration. Take a look at the garda recruitment forum if you're still in doubt.

Esel

Rothmans wrote: »

Not the case with AGS. The last panel was active for 7 years. The 2013/14 is still active, and it there's no indication of it being scrapped. You could be awaiting a call to AGS for several, and that's no exaggeration.

Exceptional circumstances excepted, of course.

How many people were called in the last 5 years of that 7 year panel? Was another competition advertised in those 5 years?

Swings and roundabouts - they all make you dizzy.

Rothmans

Esel wrote: »

Exceptional circumstances excepted, of course.

How many people were called in the last 5 years of that 7 year panel? Was another competition advertised in those 5 years?

Swings and roundabouts - they all make you dizzy.

I accept AGS may be somewhat exceptional, which is understandable because it is a more costly recruitment process than the civil service, given that there are extra stages involved including medical , physical , and more in depth vetting. Indeed, vetting alone can have you sitting on a panel a number of years as not only the applicant is vetted, but his extended family, which is obviously quite different to the civil service in general. But the disagreement I was having with Mary was over garda panels specifically and I do accept that the civil service may be different.

Esel

Rothmans wrote: »

I accept AGS may be somewhat exceptional, which is understandable because it is a more costly recruitment process than the civil service, given that there are extra stages involved including medical , physical , and more in depth vetting. Indeed, vetting alone can have you sitting on a panel a number of years as not only the applicant is vetted, but his extended family, which is obviously quite different to the civil service in general. But the disagreement I was having with Mary was over garda panels specifically and I do accept that the civil service may be different.

Fair enough.

I came late to this thread, and did not really catch the vibe.

Paulzx

Esel wrote: »

, and did not really catch the vibe.

Better off not catching it. It'll make you itch

maryishere wrote: »

You miss the point yourself. In most careers some people start off with a full time job (I know many teachers who have), others start with part time hours and in many careers people may be out of work at some stage in their working career....or start at a very low wage. Getting a degree in religion and music does not, and should not, guarantee someone a job any more than getting a degree in architecture or quantity surveying or ancient Hebrew.

Ahhh... Finally the penny has dropped for you, and you agree that the ' starting ' point on the scale isn't necessarily the actual amount a teacher starting off gets!

purplecow1977

Time for Mary to change her tune! Old at this stage!

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=84712832

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=84713110

purplecow1977 wrote: »

Time for Mary to change her tune! Old at this stage!

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=84712832

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=84713110

its worse than that, I found a few doozies as well. Thats why I put her on the old ignore. If I wanted mary to nag me about what I earn and how I spend it for the rest of my life I would have married her :P

good news mary, you can finally join the gravy train with the rest of us.

Choo, choo, all abroad the public sector gravy train

Brussels Sprout

I realise where people are coming from when they say that footballers are overpaid considering the eye-watering sums they get for playing a glorified children's game.

However, if you look at it a different way they're getting a fair wage under the circumstances. Being a top level professional footballer is the closest thing we have to being a pure meritocracy. You literally have to compete against millions of other applicants for the job, the interview takes years to complete and you can't get the role through nepotism or cronyism. If you do manage to get a contract at a top club you're only a dip in form or a serious injury away from not getting another one.

The really overpaid people are the CEOs of large corporations whose skillset are often dubious at best and have bonuses and severance payments that at times seem to reward them even if they do a disastrous job.

Brussels Sprout wrote: »

I realise where people are coming from when they say that footballers are overpaid considering the eye-watering sums they get for playing a glorified children's game.

However, if you look at it a different way they're getting a fair wage under the circumstances. Being a top level professional footballer is the closest thing we have to being a pure meritocracy. You literally have to compete against millions of other applicants for the job, the interview takes years to complete and you can't get the role through nepotism or cronyism. If you do manage to get a contract at a top club you're only a dip in form or a serious injury away from not getting another one.

The really overpaid people are the CEOs of large corporations whose skillset are often dubious at best and have bonuses and severance payments that at times seem to reward them even if they do a disastrous job.

well that was well out of left field I must say,

stats suggest that in the US (Couldnt find nore did I look really hard for global ones) one in 8000 peoples who partake in sports in their teen years will sign a professional contract.

Rooney contracts? No but even lower league / reserves are on good money

esforum wrote: »

stats suggest that in the US (Couldnt find nore did I look really hard for global ones) one in 8000 peoples who partake in sports in their teen years will sign a professional contract.

Rooney contracts? No but even lower league / reserves are on good money

A lot of football clubs are in debt, lose money. The reason these massive wages/transfer fees are ever paid is down to one thing and one thing only. That is the "fans" : as long as millions of them keep spending big money on television subscriptions, season tickets, hospitality,club shirts, over-priced football boots, console games and all the other various products and companies that support these sums of money being paid football will always flourish and excessive wages will be paid. If the fans stopped paying out their hard earned cash then wages would eventually fall., and prices fall. Football is the shepherd and the fans are the sheep. Without the sheep the shepherd is nothing but the sheep are too stupid to see it.

[Deleted User]

Ahhh Mary, you're back!

Missed ya......

ah Mary, did ya have to rebuild up the outrage?

Now, if you could just answer all those pesky posts that you chose to ignore............

(and all I said was a statistic on the chances of becomming a pro, how that led to such a rant I will never know)

Your posts were answered already. I and others even gave you lots of links.

esforum wrote: »

No but even lower league / reserves are on good money

Now , you wrote"No but even lower league / reserves are on good money"...have you links or stats for that, and what would you call good money...or are you just talking through your *** again?

maryishere wrote: »

Now , you wrote"No but even lower league / reserves are on good money"...have you links or stats for that, and what would you call good money...or are you just talking through your *** again?

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-2833020/Premier-League-wages-dwarf-Europe-flight-players-England-earning-average-2-3million-year.html

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-2055140/Premier-League-wages-FIVE-times-Championship.html

http://soccerlens.com/finance-in-english-football-wage-disparities-between-the-divisions/92692/

Are you now arguing with me that the money is good in Football? Really? The sky is blue...................................

speedboatchase

Why are people talking about footballer salaries? That's the free market, nothing you have to worry about.

speedboatchase wrote: »

Why are people talking about footballer salaries? That's the free market, nothing you have to worry about.

who has to worry about? and I have no idea why it was brought up or why Mary is so very very angry about it

esforum wrote: »

and I have no idea why it was brought up or why Mary is so very very angry about it

I did not bring up the subject of football - someone else did, and I am not at all angry about it.

esforum wrote: »

Are you now arguing with me that the money is good in Football? Really? The sky is blue...................................

No, we all know the money is good at the top of football eg the top players in Europe. But you said " even lower league / reserves are on good money"

I could not care less anyway, its the free market, and for every Beckam or Messi earning millions there are millions of kids who will never earn anything, or very little.

Its typical of the begrudgers in the public sector who whinge about some people in the private sector being on big wages, as if everyone in the private sector is on big wages. Quite amusing really.

lawlolawl

maryishere wrote: »

Its typical of the begrudgers in the public sector who whinge about some people in the private sector being on big wages, as if everyone in the private sector is on big wages. Quite amusing really.

You could easily swap "private" and "public" in this statement and it would have just as much validity.

lawlolawl wrote: »

You could easily swap "private" and "public" in this statement and it would have just as much validity.

The difference is the mediocre performers in the public sector - eg the teacher who does not want to teach - gets paid the same as the top performers, has the same security, the same pension. Thats why its better to go by statistics. See below.

Public sector pay is 48% more than private
http://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/public-sector-pay-is-48-more-than-private-283560.html

http://www.thejournal.ie/public-sector-wage-higher-300-than-private-sector-1637290-Aug2014/

http://www.irishtimes.com/business/economy/public-sector-pay-rates-nearly-50-higher-than-those-in-private-sector-1.1907313

http://www.independent.ie/business/irish/stats-dont-lie-public-sector-is-still-mollycoddled-29907776.html

maryishere wrote: »

The difference is the mediocre performers in the public sector - eg the teacher who does not want to teach - gets paid the same as the top performers, has the same security, the same pension. Thats why its better to go by statistics. See below.

Public sector pay is 48% more than private
http://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/public-sector-pay-is-48-more-than-private-283560.html

http://www.thejournal.ie/public-sector-wage-higher-300-than-private-sector-1637290-Aug2014/

http://www.irishtimes.com/business/economy/public-sector-pay-rates-nearly-50-higher-than-those-in-private-sector-1.1907313

http://www.independent.ie/business/irish/stats-dont-lie-public-sector-is-still-mollycoddled-29907776.html

Ya so what, 48% more, that's cos public sector employees have higher education levels. No big shwing.
More education =mo money.

You're comparing a HSE neurologist with an intern in the local petrol station too btw.

But shur seeing as we're doing apples and oranges what's yer own field in the private sector? Let's compare and contrast rather than just ogle over the fence.

Gebgbegb wrote: »

You're comparing a HSE neurologist with an intern in the local petrol station too btw.

No I am not. But what the experts did was compare a secretary in the public service with one in private sector, a vet in the public service with one in the private sector, an architectural technician in the public sector with one in the private sector etc..and they found that overall " Even adjusted for education, skills and experience, we have a significant pay premium in the public sector, and that’s an issue that has to be part of the post-crisis discussion."
http://www.thejournal.ie/public-sector-wage-higher-300-than-private-sector-1637290-Aug2014/

“Even when you adjust for qualifications, experience and length of service, the public sector workers still enjoy a significant pay premium over their private sector counterparts,” Ibec economist Fergal O’Brien said
http://www.irishtimes.com/business/economy/public-sector-pay-rates-nearly-50-higher-than-those-in-private-sector-1.1907313

mulbot

Gebgbegb wrote: »

Ya so what, 48% more, that's cos public sector employees have higher education levels. No big shwing.
More education =mo money.

You're comparing a HSE neurologist with an intern in the local petrol station too btw.

But shur seeing as we're doing apples and oranges what's yer own field in the private sector? Let's compare and contrast rather than just ogle over the fence.

What professions are you referring to? A lot of public sector employees don't even have third level education.

mulbot wrote: »

What professions are you referring to? A lot of public sector employees don't even have third level education.

Sure, 'a lot' don't, but a lot more than the private sector do!

mulbot

Gebgbegb wrote: »

Sure, 'a lot' don't, but a lot more than the private sector do!

Such as?