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Why Meat Is Madness

Red Cloud

John Gibbons Irish Times Review Section Saturday April 9.
Re hashing numerous influential scientific and think thank research for Beef and Dairy sectors that could cause chaos if they get traction in Brussels, Dublin, and world trade talks over next few years.

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Zillah

By "chaos" do you mean a reduction in our carbon footprint and health effects from eating too much meat?

patsy_mccabe

Link for you;
http://www.irishtimes.com/life-and-style/food-and-drink/meat-is-madness-why-it-leads-to-global-warming-and-obesity-1.2602027

laoch na mona

I don't buy the meat = obesity thing. To much calories over a lifetime is what causes obesity, but the issues around beef as a polluter do need to be addressed like any other form of pollution .

patsy_mccabe

Sugar is the real silent killer, not meat.

yosemitesam1

patsy_mccabe wrote: »

Link for you;
http://www.irishtimes.com/life-and-style/food-and-drink/meat-is-madness-why-it-leads-to-global-warming-and-obesity-1.2602027

That is a load of nonsense, there is nothing unhealthy about meat and maintaining a good demand for meat will be a big part in combatting climate change as nearly all the worlds big grasslands are underutilised/degraded and can only be maintained in good health by good grazing which needs investment

Buford T. Justice XIX

patsy_mccabe wrote: »

Link for you;
http://www.irishtimes.com/life-and-style/food-and-drink/meat-is-madness-why-it-leads-to-global-warming-and-obesity-1.2602027

What a load of male bovine faeces!

They aren't even switched on enough to realise that only a small proportion of Irish land is capable of growing a commercial crop of anything other than grass and never will be.

I wish them well growing commercial crops of potatoes and lentils in Connemara and organic couscous on the bog of Allen:rolleyes:

gozunda

The jourmalist claims that "a glut of cheap processed meats" links meat production and obesity. This 'link' is then associated in the article with all Irish meat production.

Considering that Ireland is a primary producer of beef which is the main grass fed and results in a top class product with worldwide recognition.

Imo it is extremley poor and lazy journalism to lump all meat production with the old vegan chestnut "Meat is madness/murder" campaign slogan.

The Wiki entry on this journalist/activist ...

John Gibbons is an Irish environmental campaigner and the founder of the climatechange.ie website. He also co-founded the healthcare publishing and communications specialists MedMedia Group."

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Gibbons_(activist)

http://www.sligotoday.ie/details.php?id=4817

. It is of interest that the extreme end of the vegan movement sets out to end to all animal use and the meat industry especially.

I would say this article on "Meat is madness /murder" is a (poor) promotional piece of journalism and does not stand up to an independent view on meat production in Ireland and what the actual causes of obesity are.

freedominacup

I would love to see the calculations behind the assertion that we import more calories than we export. Is the figure enough calories for 1.4 million people for a day/an hour/20mins/a whole year or what? It could be correct tbd but if anyone can remember the post from that poster from ncd, the veg grower no one in this country has much chance in the veg business when UK farmers use Ireland as a dumping ground for the surpluses they must grow as a margin for error when planting for their UK supermarket contracts. We might have a greenhouse gas problem but outside of no input goat herding around the Mediterranean we produce the lowest emulsion beef and dairy certainly in the eu. I always question the methodology of these reports. I wonder how the emission levels for the chems and artificial fert used in veg production are calculated. The number of passes it takes to get a potato crop to harvest in this country has to be seen to be believed.

Speedwell

Yeah, meat is madness, and I didn't lower my blood sugar 25 percent and go off three medications by going on a low-carb diet.

I was a vegan before my diabetes diagnosis (ironically for health reasons) and I didn't want to switch. I effectively don't even have full-fledged diabetes now, based on my monitor numbers. The key to obesity is how the body processes carbohydrates; since cells run on glucose, the body produces it from meats and fats too, so overeating meat can also raise blood sugar and cause obesity. If, like me, you tend to have impaired glucose metabolism anyway, that makes it look like meat is the cause of obesity when it's really a glucose issue.

Timmaay

patsy_mccabe wrote: »

Sugar is the real silent killer, not meat.

The whole modern food industry is the real killer, 20/30years ago most your diet was made up of largely raw foods that you bought and cooked yourself, now what fraction are processed food, buy a "meat feast" pizza from a supermarket freezer and I can guarantee ya the quality of the meet is rubbish, the tomato sauce on the base probably has loads of sugar, as will any of the other sauces on it. And that's considered a reasonable supper for how many millions of teenage kids around the developed world? Dont get me started on any sort of lasagnas/pie or other dished. My general motto when shopping is stay the hell away from the sweet section, biscuits/snacks and any frozen processed foods. I'm lucky enough that food/nutrition is a huge area in athletics which Im heavily involved with, and it's a real eye opener contrasting my diet now to what sh1te I shovelled into myself during my 20s

uck51js9zml2yt

Buford T. Justice V wrote: »

What a load of male bovine faeces!

They aren't even switched on enough to realise that only a small proportion of Irish land is capable of growing a commercial crop of anything other than grass and never will be.

I wish them well growing commercial crops of potatoes and lentils in Connemara and organic couscous on the bog of Allen:rolleyes:

Couscous is a difficult one to grow OK. Not too much or too little water, just enough sunshine and the right combination of fertilisers.

But let's not blame the real culprits of obesity, eating too much and not getting exercise.

Speedwell

Leilani Blue Llama wrote: »

Couscous is a difficult one to grow OK. Not too much or too little water, just enough sunshine and the right combination of fertilisers.

But let's not blame the real culprits of obesity, eating too much and not getting exercise.

I hear that if you use the right mix of water, protein, and vegetable matter, you can vastly increase your yield of couscous, but you have to eat it perfectly fresh then.

Zillah

I swapped all of my couscous fields to pasta last year, it's going very well. Jim down the way has a great tagliatelle crop coming on.

Buford T. Justice XIX

Zillah wrote: »

I swapped all of my couscous fields to pasta last year, it's going very well. Jim down the way has a great tagliatelle crop coming on.

I'm thinking of putting a few hectares of spagetti trees myself...

Nekarsulm

Considering we make most of the syrup used in producing Coca Cola for the whole of Europe, technically we probably are one of the main culprits in the obesity epidemic.....

EJ88

Buford T. Justice V wrote: »

I'm thinking of putting a few hectares of spagetti trees myself...

This weather keeps up I'm thinking of planting rice.

Dawggone

Nekarsulm wrote: »

Considering we make most of the syrup used in producing Coca Cola for the whole of Europe, technically we probably are one of the main culprits in the obesity epidemic.....

Transported it throughout the EU many moons ago Nek. Funny you needed the HazChem...

Nekarsulm

Phosphoric Acid innit. Lucky you didn't have to wear a suit. .......

uck51js9zml2yt

Dawggone wrote: »

Transported it throughout the EU many moons ago Nek. Funny you needed the HazChem...

And people say meat is bad for you!

El_Duderino 09

yosemitesam1 wrote:

That is a load of nonsense, there is nothing unhealthy about meat and maintaining a good demand for meat will be a big part in combatting climate change as nearly all the worlds big grasslands are underutilised/degraded and can only be maintained in good health by good grazing which needs investment

Meat can be part of a healthy diet, no problem there. The second part of the post is almost complete rubbish.

Why do we need to maintain grasslands? Why would grasslands be better for the environment than unused land and whats it got to do with climate change? If we didn't grow food for animals to eat we could eat the food ourselves and save the energy wasted on producing meat.

Milked out

patsy_mccabe wrote: »

Sugar is the real silent killer, not meat.

Inactivity is the bigger one imo

Nekarsulm

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

Meat can be part of a healthy diet, no problem there. The second part of the post is almost complete rubbish.

Why do we need to maintain grasslands? Why would grasslands be better for the environment than unused land and whats it got to do with climate change? If we didn't grow food for animals to eat we could eat the food ourselves and save the energy wasted on producing meat.

But beef tastes gooooooood.
Grass, not so nice.........

djmc

I find it funny sometimes how so many people are so far removed from nature that they no longer know what they are.
There is a reason our eyes are not on the sides of our heads and we have a set of canine teeth in our mouths.
Wild animals know this just by the look of us.

El_Duderino 09

djmc wrote:

I find it funny sometimes how so many people are so far removed from nature that they no longer know what they are. There is a reason our eyes are not on the sides of our heads and we have a set of canine teeth in our mouths. Wild animals know this just by the look of us.

True but it doesn't touch the environmental argument around modern meat production.

djmc

The environment problem is driven by greed everyone wants the farmer's to expand and carry more stock and sell it at a lower price.
We can no longer make a living with 10 cows like our grandparents did
The supermarkets and manufacturers are making hundreds of millions in profit's while farmer's are forced to borrow more money and more land if they want to stay in business.
I do think Ireland can do it better than most countries though because of our ability to grow grass.

Nekarsulm

Don't worry. When oil runs out, and the current agri. production model fails due to the non existence of artificial fertilizer, and the end of both tractor power and all truck based transport systems, you will be reduced to eating grass in the Phoenix Park.
Probably 75% of the population will die from starvation and associated diseases.
Imagine Cormac McCarthy's "The Road" just without the nuclear winter.

gozunda

Nekarsulm wrote: »

Don't worry. When oil runs out, and the current agri. production model fails due to the non existence of artificial fertilizer, and the end of both tractor power and all truck based transport systems, you will be reduced to eating grass in the Phoenix Park.
Probably 75% of the population will die from starvation and associated diseases.
Imagine Cormac McCarthy's "The Road" just without the nuclear winter.

Tbh the deer in phoenix park are more likley to be on someone's shopping list in that scenario ...

But yeah most people living in urban areas don't have a great notion of where food comes from or how it is produced. Cue lots of cute lambs and fluffy bunnies.

Reality of producing and eating sufficient food is well beyond most. Most farming families would at least be able to produce for themselves. Howevet keeping hoards of ex vegan towns people from chewing the leg of your last milk cow could be a problem though ....

Buford T. Justice XIX

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

Meat can be part of a healthy diet, no problem there. The second part of the post is almost complete rubbish.

Why do we need to maintain grasslands? Why would grasslands be better for the environment than unused land and whats it got to do with climate change? If we didn't grow food for animals to eat we could eat the food ourselves and save the energy wasted on producing meat.

Ecology 101,dude.

In huge swathes of the world, grassland is the tertiary ecosystem and is that way for a reason. In the 1930s in the USA, large areas of grassland used for tillage crops were blown away during years of drought conditions, coining the term 'Dust Bowl'. Here is a short documentary about the conditions.

Now, if that grassland isn't grazed, you have yourself a tinderbox waiting to explode into an inferno. The following is what happened when a fire rages through a town.

There are plenty more similar videos on YouTube, if you care to look.

And what is the best way of keeping the grassland under control from fires and erosion?

Why, grazing with ruminants!

Go figure, eh?

Now, in this Sainted Isle, we are lucky that we can grow just about any crop you could wish for, you name it and we can grow it.

Brilliant, eh?

Well, the downside is that, while we can grow the crops, it is very doubtful that we can actually harvest them as we are in a maritime climate which means lots of rainfall.

Perhaps you may have noticed it over the last 5 months?

And even if we can harvest them, it is again doubtful whether those crops will actually leave a return for the grower,which means that those crops are a complete and utter waste of time and effort on the growers part.

But it's not all bad news. No siree!

You see, we can grow grass. Lots and lots of it. And then some!

We can grow upwards of 16+tonnes of it a hectare, and possibly more. It is the one self sustaining crop we can grow that soaks up carbon and deposits in in the soils and keeps it there. Which, incidentally, means we can actually take greenhouse gasses out of the system to produce this crop.

I know, I know, I bet you're going to ask what the hell do we do with all this grass. Have a guess, go on. go on, go on, go on...

Coincidentally, this crop is a near perfect feed for those self same ruminants that you decry.

Oh, and if you want, you can look up just exactly where the biggest growth in demand for energy in the last decade is. It's not ruminants btw. I would hazard a guess at IT systems and the massive servers that have to provide us with instant gifs of sozzled halfwits falling off stage and some Kardashians ar$e which we have already seen in every conceivable angle possible but for some unknown reason still holds a peculiar fascination with a certain demographic.

Now, good day to you, sir.:)

_Brian

Buford T. Justice V wrote: »

Ecology 101,dude.

In huge swathes of the world, grassland is the tertiary ecosystem and is that way for a reason. In the 1930s in the USA, large areas of grassland used for tillage crops were blown away during years of drought conditions, coining the term 'Dust Bowl'. Here is a short documentary about the conditions.

Now, if that grassland isn't grazed, you have yourself a tinderbox waiting to explode into an inferno. The following is what happened when a fire rages through a town.

There are plenty more similar videos on YouTube, if you care to look.

And what is the best way of keeping the grassland under control from fires and erosion?

Why, grazing with ruminants!

Go figure, eh?

Now, in this Sainted Isle, we are lucky that we can grow just about any crop you could wish for, you name it and we can grow it.

Brilliant, eh?

Well, the downside is that, while we can grow the crops, it is very doubtful that we can actually harvest them as we are in a maritime climate which means lots of rainfall.

Perhaps you may have noticed it over the last 5 months?

And even if we can harvest them, it is again doubtful whether those crops will actually leave a return for the grower,which means that those crops are a complete and utter waste of time and effort on the growers part.

But it's not all bad news. No siree!

You see, we can grow grass. Lots and lots of it. And then some!

We can grow upwards of 16+tonnes of it a hectare, and possibly more. It is the one self sustaining crop we can grow that soaks up carbon and deposits in in the soils and keeps it there. Which, incidentally, means we can actually take greenhouse gasses out of the system to produce this crop.

I know, I know, I bet you're going to ask what the hell do we do with all this grass. Have a guess, go on. go on, go on, go on...

Coincidentally, this crop is a near perfect feed for those self same ruminants that you decry.

Oh, and if you want, you can look up just exactly where the biggest growth in demand for energy in the last decade is. It's not ruminants btw. I would hazard a guess at IT systems and the massive servers that have to provide us with instant gifs of sozzled halfwits falling off stage and some Kardashians ar$e which we have already seen in every conceivable angle possible but for some unknown reason still holds a peculiar fascination with a certain demographic.

Now, good day to you, sir.:)

Can't ever see a dust bowl scenario here in Cavan grazed or not, just saying like.

Nekarsulm

_Brian wrote: »

Can't ever see a dust bowl scenario here in Cavan grazed or not, just saying like.

Ha!, we are safe from dustbowls here, cause if you take ruminates out of the equation, the rushes, blackthorns, sallies and whins will keep our soil anchored and intact