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Software Systems Development

J98

Got my place in Software Systems Development in WIT which I deferred for next year (2016).
I just have a few questions about the course just to make sure I am making the right decision.

1) What programming languages do you learn?
2) Whats the timetable like?
3) How practical is the course as in are you in classrooms or computer labs more?
4) Is there a computer lab dedicated to IT students?
5) How did people find getting jobs afterwards as a developer/programmer?
6) Do you do projects if so what kind?
7) Is this course recognized by employers?
8) Lecture quality?
9) Would people recommend this course looking for pros and cons if anyone has any?
10) Do the majority of who do the course actually like programming and all or do they put it down as a safety net? Like would there be many who drop out not doing any research into the course. I really like programming and hoping others in the course do for projects etc, as I want to make a portfolio during my time in college for employers like websites and apps.
11) Lastly would anyone have any other advice or information that I did not mention that would help me out?

Sorry for all the questions just want to make sure this course is the right choice for me.

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spaceCreated

As far as the points requirement goes the person most likely to get the highest marks in Applied this year as in 85% plus got just a little over 300 points on the l. cert. College is a chance to put in the work you didn't previously. I think maybe an interview process for those below a certain mark is probably a good idea?

Don't know where the idea of Applied being arrogant is coming from, Ill be honest we, (like I imagine the rest of students who graduate this year in all the i.t courses) really couldn't care less about anyone or anything other than finishing the course right now, these courses are a slog and there is zero arrogance and zero time for it. Everyone I know from Applied had a good look at all the project posters that are up to see what everyone had built, nobodys poster was skipped over or laughed at except that ridiculous fitness app with the less than adequately clothed woman.

Nobody is queuing up for Applied Graduates either, your cv/linkedin stands on its own accord. 99% of employers will care more about your project than your course and more care about whether you made a contribution to an open source project... if they don't then they probably don't want you for interesting jobs.

As far as I hear it Forensics is being merged in to Applied and more Dev Ops stuff is coming in to Applied before the stream choice... I think anyone would be mad not to do IOT Applied given the choice over anyway, and select the cloud choice if they've a general interest in programming. And for anyone wondering about the IOT course and what the current fourth eyars think, most of us would've loved to have done it and that is a course that stands out to employers imo... its ahead of the curve right now and expect other colleges t start copying it soon.

Like the idea of a more database centric and networking course if thats what IT is being developed in to as well, sounds interesting.

Digital Society

Mr_Muffin wrote: »

The course you choose isn't the deciding factor in gaining employment when you finish, many more factors come into play. There are literally grad jobs everywhere these days.

I graduated a while back and had no problem finding employment. As with every department in every college that has ever existed people always talk up their course and down others - it's natural. Just because you completed a software based course doesn't mean you can code. If you want to learn how to code then put in the effort in college and some outside self learning - this should see you on your way.

Didnt you hear that the Java in Applied computing is WAAAAYYY different to the Java they teach in all the other courses! :pac:

Sure why else would they look down at the other courses? In my company they have a special area sectioned off for the elite of WIT. I am of course referring to the Applied computing students. Cant have them associating with the riff raff. They wouldnt be used to that after 4 years of being on such a high level.

Nah in reality you hit the nail on the head.

Mr_Muffin

The course you choose isn't the deciding factor in gaining employment when you finish, many more factors come into play. There are literally grad jobs everywhere these days.

I graduated a while back and had no problem finding employment. As with every department in every college that has ever existed people always talk up their course and down others - it's natural. Just because you completed a software based course doesn't mean you can code. If you want to learn how to code then put in the effort in college and some outside self learning - this should see you on your way.

[Deleted User]

Digital Society wrote: »

16 people graduated Applied last year, Ent Sytems 15, Forensics 8, 8 IT and 9 SSD then the Chinese that join them bringing that to over 50.

Applied, Ent Systems, Forensices and SSD all had 100% employment (in IT related roles). That is the poeple who wanted work that is. Clearly some people emigrated etc.

Also to say that anyone who got less than 300 points shouldnt be allowed into an IT course is just silly. Basing someones passion for Software on their geography or french LC results isnt very smart. How many people dropped out of the Software courses that got way more than that? Also if a course is 250 points it obviously doesnt mean that everyone got 250.

There is no successful model really.

Yeah I think you are right, putting a minimum leaving cert points requirement on IT is ridiculous. If someone manages to be good at Irish or Woodwork != having ability for IT. A lot of people come into IT courses and they might have a lot of leaving cert points but they only choose IT because their parents forced them to because 'there is money in dem computers'. From my own IT course I have seen people struggling along who have no interest in tech at all. An ideal situation would be to interview people and see if they actually have an interest in the course, but that is never going to happen because of the cao system.

Digital Society

imacman wrote: »

I think making it harder and raising the points is the only way to go , numbers will be lower in first year but the retention of those numbers will be higher and more people will graduate.
Nobody who gets 300 points or under should be let into and IT course . Applied computing is a good example of the way to go , the points are higher , the course is really hard and they get 20-30 people each year. The retention on this course is good and graduates have nearly 100% employment rate and many of them have work lined up before they graduate. Thats a successful model

16 people graduated Applied last year, Ent Sytems 15, Forensics 8, 8 IT and 9 SSD then the Chinese that join them bringing that to over 50.

Applied, Ent Systems, Forensices and SSD all had 100% employment (in IT related roles). That is the poeple who wanted work that is. Clearly some people emigrated etc.

Also to say that anyone who got less than 300 points shouldnt be allowed into an IT course is just silly. Basing someones passion for Software on their geography or french LC results isnt very smart. How many people dropped out of the Software courses that got way more than that? Also if a course is 250 points it obviously doesnt mean that everyone got 250.

There is no successful model really.

imacman

Digital Society wrote: »

This is a tough one.

If about 90% of people already drop out by the end of 4th year how do make a difference?

Make it harder? Increased dropouts.
Make it easier? Make graduates less attractive to industry

I heard all lvl 7s are being dropped as they need to be to qualify as Uni.

SSD is being rebranded as Enterprise Software development. Probably unchanged as its good enough for industry as it is.
BSc IT is becoming something else that goes heavy into databases and networking as it should be.
Applied will remain the same. Including the arrogance unfortunately. joke.
Multimedia. Didnt hear anything.
Forensics doesnt need to change either.

Also funnily enough is the fact that SSD, Applied, Forensics and Ent Systems are already industry focused as the employers pretty much queue up in 4th year to give them jobs.

Its Multimedia and BSc IT that need a serious going over.

Multimedia is like the quiet person in the corner that no one knows who they are and 4th year BSc IT is literally a joke.

I swear to god if they made that course harder there would be close to 0 people graduating. They should tell them to go to SSD or enter the workforce. Dropping 4th year IT and only having SSD as a choice to continue would be the obvious change to make or just merge them both, double the size and call it Enterprise Software Systems lvl 8 4 years. Have Programming as an option in 4th year OR a proper database module that brings you to an employable level in databases. That way you leave as either a programmer or a database admin and get a job.

I think making it harder and raising the points is the only way to go , numbers will be lower in first year but the retention of those numbers will be higher and more people will graduate.
Nobody who gets 300 points or under should be let into and IT course . Applied computing is a good example of the way to go , the points are higher , the course is really hard and they get 20-30 people each year. The retention on this course is good and graduates have nearly 100% employment rate and many of them have work lined up before they graduate. Thats a successful model

Digital Society

imacman wrote: »

Massive more industry focused changes coming to all of the WIT IT courses over the next three years.Complete overall of the curriculum of all courses with some disappearing and some merging.Great changes are coming

This is a tough one.

If about 90% of people already drop out by the end of 4th year how do make a difference?

Make it harder? Increased dropouts.
Make it easier? Make graduates less attractive to industry

I heard all lvl 7s are being dropped as they need to be to qualify as Uni.

SSD is being rebranded as Enterprise Software development. Probably unchanged as its good enough for industry as it is.
BSc IT is becoming something else that goes heavy into databases and networking as it should be.
Applied will remain the same. Including the arrogance unfortunately. joke.
Multimedia. Didnt hear anything.
Forensics doesnt need to change either.

Also funnily enough is the fact that SSD, Applied, Forensics and Ent Systems are already industry focused as the employers pretty much queue up in 4th year to give them jobs.

Its Multimedia and BSc IT that need a serious going over.

Multimedia is like the quiet person in the corner that no one knows who they are and 4th year BSc IT is literally a joke.

I swear to god if they made that course harder there would be close to 0 people graduating. They should tell them to go to SSD or enter the workforce. Dropping 4th year IT and only having SSD as a choice to continue would be the obvious change to make or just merge them both, double the size and call it Enterprise Software Systems lvl 8 4 years. Have Programming as an option in 4th year OR a proper database module that brings you to an employable level in databases. That way you leave as either a programmer or a database admin and get a job.

imacman

Massive more industry focused changes coming to all of the WIT IT courses over the next three years.Complete overall of the curriculum of all courses with some disappearing and some merging.Great changes are coming

Digital Society

J98 wrote: »

I know a good lot on html/css and a nice bit on Javascript, I know a bit on Java so should be fairly ok going to learn a lot more Java during the summer. I know most people will have different opinions but what would people say is the hardest part in first year in this course like what module or anything like that?

I would say Java separates the people who want to learn from the people who dont. Anyone who fell behind dropped out.

Use Eclipse. Spend about a week learning every shortcut you can.

If you could build a basic Java Desktop App by the time you get to first year you will have an incredible advantage.

Headfirst java is a great book. Available on the Bay.

Lynda.com java videos also available on the Bay.

CodeAcademy java - Drill through that once a forth night for the summer.

You will probably be at 3rd year level if you get through all them.

J98

I know a good lot on html/css and a nice bit on Javascript, I know a bit on Java so should be fairly ok going to learn a lot more Java during the summer. I know most people will have different opinions but what would people say is the hardest part in first year in this course like what module or anything like that?

Hijpo

Digital Society wrote: »

they should strongly encourage students to use Eclipse from the start.

Two years of BlueJ, FML!

Digital Society

Deleted User wrote: »

The course is changing fairly soon because the course updates are happening either next year or the year after, so the course might be updated which is always a good thing.

Course actually changes a lot each year anyway in 3rd and 4th year.

1st and 2nd id say will always stay the same. What else can they do?

The level of dropouts is shocking in all the Software courses so they cant/shouldnt make them harder.

Java gives a great base in learning syntax and you cant really do any web development without learning HTML first.

They should force students to use Github all the way through from the start and have a better emphasis on testing. Also they should strongly encourage students to use Eclipse from the start.

[Deleted User]

J98 wrote: »

Can anyone tell me what programming languages are taught in first year?

The course is changing fairly soon because the course updates are happening either next year or the year after, so the course might be updated which is always a good thing.

Digital Society

J98 wrote: »

Can anyone tell me what programming languages are taught in first year?

Java for OO Programming.

Basic PHP, HTML, CSS and maybe basic JQuery for Web.

J98

Can anyone tell me what programming languages are taught in first year?

a fat guy

Digital Society wrote: »

The amount of bull**** statements regarding IT courses is unreal.

With any IT course you will get back what you put in. Think of any course as a 4 year race to learn as many languages as possible with yourself being responsible for everything.

This bull**** asking can you be this or that. If you are a lazy **** you will amount to nothing on any course. If you put the effort in you will amount to something. If they dont include for example Python as part of the course there is absolutely nothing stopping YOU from learning python.

In fairness Digital, these are largely people who have never done a college course before. They don't know how much self-study you should be doing in your four years at college. I know I sure didn't before first year started, so I don't see how it's bull**** to ask questions like that.

GENERALLY people who do software-oriented courses go into software development. The course tends to give students an idea of what kind of job they're mostly likely going into (multimedia -> design, IT -> admin role, etc), rather than tying them down into a role.

Sure, you can do any of the computer science courses and become whatever you want to be, within the grand scope of the course. A senior developer at a place I used to work for actually had an electrical engineering degree, if you want to get a grasp on just how far you can successfully push this "scope". Just as long as you don't do a farming course in order to become a solicitor, you should be fine folks!

Heck, I know a good few people from entertainment systems who just went into software development rather than game development. I know a few IT guys who also got into development too.

But I also know an IT guy who now works at a call centre and an entertainment systems guy who works at a McDonald's and had a kid while doing his degree (who only managed to get a 2.2). No prize for guessing who the screw ups in those classes were and who actually tried to get a decent result!

So with all that said, you can of course do whatever the hell you want with your degree, but if you're just going to go with the flow then you're gonna get the expected job for your course.

Put in the effort to take charge of your life instead and (with a little bit more effort) you'll end up wherever you want to be.

Digital Society

The amount of bull**** statements regarding IT courses is unreal.

With any IT course you will get back what you put in. Think of any course as a 4 year race to learn as many languages as possible with yourself being responsible for everything.

This bull**** asking can you be this or that. If you are a lazy **** you will amount to nothing on any course. If you put the effort in you will amount to something. If they dont include for example Python as part of the course there is absolutely nothing stopping YOU from learning python.

Digital Society

JimJamMiniMini

And could a graduate also work as a Java developer ?

theirishguy

JimJamMiniMini wrote: »

I got an email from WIT and they wrote that AngularJS framework is tought on the course so idk if wether you or they are correct.

I'm pretty sure it was only added this year!

a fat guy

JimJamMiniMini wrote: »

Guys does anyone know maybe if a graduate of the Software Systems Development course could work as a Software Engineer ?

Yep, I did the course and was hired down in the arclabs. Not mentioning the company as I like my privacy!

JimJamMiniMini

counterpointaud wrote: »

1) What programming languages do you learn?

SQL, Java (and the Android version), JavaScript, a bit of PHP (although this may be dropped now), HTML/CSS, Ruby on Rails.

2) Whats the timetable like?

Typically 4 full days and 1 half day.

3) How practical is the course as in are you in classrooms or computer labs more?

Lots of lectures, but quite a few practical classes in the labs

4) Is there a computer lab dedicated to IT students?

There is a building with classrooms equipped with PC's for practical classes, used by a good few courses but IT based courses use it the most. These rooms are timetabled, so you may not always find a room you can work in if you are not timetabled there.

5) How did people find getting jobs afterwards as a developer/programmer?

It's pretty easy if you do well and are willing to move out of Waterford. Getting something in Waterford is harder, but do-able.

6) Do you do projects if so what kind?

Database backed web apps, Android apps, UI design, that sort of thing.

7) Is this course recognized by employers?

Absolutely

8) Lecture quality?

Generally good, with some exceptions

9) Would people recommend this course looking for pros and cons if anyone has any?

I would recommend it, if you like programming and see yourself working in IT.

10) Do the majority of who do the course actually like programming and all or do they put it down as a safety net? Like would there be many who drop out not doing any research into the course. I really like programming and hoping others in the course do for projects etc, as I want to make a portfolio during my time in college for employers like websites and apps.

There is a big drop-out rate in first year. Most people who stay do not hate programming. You will get an opportunity to create a decent portfolio from projects.

11) Lastly would anyone have any other advice or information that I did not mention that would help me out?

Study and use technologies that are not taught. Git / Github and a popular Javascript framework (Angular or React for example).

I got an email from WIT and they wrote that AngularJS framework is tought on the course so idk if wether you or they are correct.

JimJamMiniMini

Guys does anyone know maybe if a graduate of the Software Systems Development course could work as a Software Engineer ?

J98

Mr_Muffin wrote: »

Do not rely on any I.T course in WIT to get you to a good standard in development. You will learn the basics but that's it.

Plenty of people (if not most) that graduate from the Software Development course graduate and still have no clue how to code - and it's the same with the other courses. The students who become decent developers aren't the one who did a specific course, it's the ones who are willing to learn and practice outside of college.

Don't forget that the college year is very short you only need 40% to pass each module so it's nearly impossible to fail unless you just can't be bothered to make an effort. If there's something you wanted to learn that they didn't cover in your course just sign up to an free online course/YouTube and you will learn just as much if not more in half the time.

Yeah from what I heard its like that with any IT course, anyone who wants to be a developer needs to learn themselves, everything needed to learn a programming language is online. Going to college to be a developer is just good to have a formal degree and to know all the theory. From developers I have talked to a good lot wouldnt have a degree but I think it would make life a lot easier

Mr_Muffin

Do not rely on any I.T course in WIT to get you to a good standard in development. You will learn the basics but that's it.

Plenty of people (if not most) that graduate from the Software Development course graduate and still have no clue how to code - and it's the same with the other courses. The students who become decent developers aren't the one who did a specific course, it's the ones who are willing to learn and practice outside of college.

Don't forget that the college year is very short you only need 40% to pass each module so it's nearly impossible to fail unless you just can't be bothered to make an effort. If there's something you wanted to learn that they didn't cover in your course just sign up to an free online course/YouTube and you will learn just as much if not more in half the time.

JimJamMiniMini

Could a graduate work as a Software Engineer ?

a fat guy

Musicman2000 wrote: »

You really need to do your research on which IT course your going to choose. Its not as easy to walk straight into a job when you finish your degree. I personally found the IT course I completed in WIT to be outdated and out of touch with Industry .

To much theory should start alarm bells ringing . When it comes to writing code its all about hands on practical experience and practicing yourself most of the time with a certain amount of theory.

The drop out rates are massive in WIT when it comes to their IT courses. Some students are not cut out to be developers ,then other side of things the college should be asking themselves why is the drop out rate so high.

They will tell you what they want you to hear on the Open day as they are trying to sell you the course. Like I said do your research and you should be fine.

Fas run and excellent course for Developers starting out in the industry . it is very intense but my be wort checking out.
http://jobseeker.fas.ie/Default.aspx?q=B+fomdowzS8kaDnSlUDk12wruxcZtLQqM8tuoafee6fXTK89BE5H+tyZK/DAOH+9dyB/KGKVCY+u+i+xN9u9B4AQ2AmW7oqPPY1I9NUbUpYTVAf3qHf5osH2ryzCfegHZeIAiaB7VY8rsJ1TtYrgjxR5JO9cdAzVHyvgBA5FdjYt8tKVLU+huXn4uXCX4A1AT1sF4QiPInliirIUS/rVwLzmW9oeIPVfmQAcEU7mEDJphCoCrBz3LFIWjjCwfTUAlA6JDOnROuUWUlLYUsx9YQuSzB7HHSgOscq+qRpz0/MI8GLQytSKTDGg3eYrGSCrk5GYZ4jIosnSLggG1f3nOARj9TM9MP0pYwKOdwQ0EUfugOEkwBplvZ/sv/qgHPKtzRI3X3k5z/d0dU0tdCfQMQCULUp3TcrZJaAt2uIAEbeFDjHgglX+O/Hsv5dg7iOZ5s+C+3NQtzswOVfRbdW092iTE7z23nTx

If you're talking about the actual Information Technology course then yeah, it's meant to be the worst of the lot. Seriously, if anyone reading this is considering doing the IT course, DON'T! It's the least programming-intensive course in WIT and employers know this.

Also, there is SOME practical (Java) work for the programming classes, but they aren't mandatory (They should be! It's how you learn!). It's kinda like the weekly Ruby ones I did for my first semester in UCD. They really drive home the point of the material and should definitely be weekly hand-ups for 30-40% of the module grade.

J98 wrote: »

Thanks very much for your reply, are you attending a masters at the moment in UCD? It's something I'd like to try do after this course in WIT.

Yeah, this one:

https://www.cs.ucd.ie/PostgraduateProgrammes/MSc_Negotiated_Learning/

It's the only course where you get to pick all of your own modules. It's won awards and the like too, and so far it's been pretty damn good. Bear in mind that you shouldn't waste your credits on crappy or mismatched modules though. Like, don't do statistics with R for biologists and mix that up with a business-slanted module and something to do with distributed systems. Pick a main area and have a few divergents to fill out your credits once you're happy with the core modules you picked. It cost me €6,250 by the way, but it went up to €6,500 for next year.

theirishguy wrote: »

If we are talking about the same person she has been replaced! Her replacement isn't much better.

GOOD! She was awful and couldn't even do her job when she did make an appearance.

Musicman2000

J98 wrote: »

I have read good few threads and started two on this course cant be 100% sure as I haven't started yet but from what I have read and that, seems like a good lot of programming compared to the Information Technology course, was at the Open Day the other day and seems like a very good course good lot of programming modules I'd say it'll be fairly good course.

You really need to do your research on which IT course your going to choose. Its not as easy to walk straight into a job when you finish your degree. I personally found the IT course I completed in WIT to be outdated and out of touch with Industry .

To much theory should start alarm bells ringing . When it comes to writing code its all about hands on practical experience and practicing yourself most of the time with a certain amount of theory.

The drop out rates are massive in WIT when it comes to their IT courses. Some students are not cut out to be developers ,then other side of things the college should be asking themselves why is the drop out rate so high.

They will tell you what they want you to hear on the Open day as they are trying to sell you the course. Like I said do your research and you should be fine.

Fas run and excellent course for Developers starting out in the industry . it is very intense but my be wort checking out.
http://jobseeker.fas.ie/Default.aspx?q=B+fomdowzS8kaDnSlUDk12wruxcZtLQqM8tuoafee6fXTK89BE5H+tyZK/DAOH+9dyB/KGKVCY+u+i+xN9u9B4AQ2AmW7oqPPY1I9NUbUpYTVAf3qHf5osH2ryzCfegHZeIAiaB7VY8rsJ1TtYrgjxR5JO9cdAzVHyvgBA5FdjYt8tKVLU+huXn4uXCX4A1AT1sF4QiPInliirIUS/rVwLzmW9oeIPVfmQAcEU7mEDJphCoCrBz3LFIWjjCwfTUAlA6JDOnROuUWUlLYUsx9YQuSzB7HHSgOscq+qRpz0/MI8GLQytSKTDGg3eYrGSCrk5GYZ4jIosnSLggG1f3nOARj9TM9MP0pYwKOdwQ0EUfugOEkwBplvZ/sv/qgHPKtzRI3X3k5z/d0dU0tdCfQMQCULUp3TcrZJaAt2uIAEbeFDjHgglX+O/Hsv5dg7iOZ5s+C+3NQtzswOVfRbdW092iTE7z23nTx

JimJamMiniMini

J98 wrote: »

I have read good few threads and started two on this course cant be 100% sure as I haven't started yet but from what I have read and that, seems like a good lot of programming compared to the Information Technology course, was at the Open Day the other day and seems like a very good course good lot of programming modules I'd say it'll be fairly good course.

Do you know maybe if they do work experience in companys like microsoft? I know that applied computing students have work placements in microsoft.

J98

JimJamMiniMini wrote: »

Is there more theory or programming on the course because i consider doing this course in 2016

I have read good few threads and started two on this course cant be 100% sure as I haven't started yet but from what I have read and that, seems like a good lot of programming compared to the Information Technology course, was at the Open Day the other day and seems like a very good course good lot of programming modules I'd say it'll be fairly good course.