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Irish driver behaviour in traffic actually causing jams

12Phase

Is it just me or does anyone else find Irish driver behaviour at rush hour particularly petty and aggressive?

I've driven in cities that are notorious for bad driving and I haven't noticed this as badly.

I completely missed a junction because drivers actually deliberately shut me out of a lane in Cork City this morning.

I had turned from a side street (on left) and needed to change across a lightly trafficed middle lane to to make a turn on the right. Drivers (I assume thinking I skipped the queue) completely blocked me. I got flashed and beeped at when I tried to get into the right turning lane by indicating. I wasn't blocking anyone, it was 'you're skipping the queue' behaviour.

Result was I had to abandon the turn and drive around a big mess of junctions and missed a meeting this morning.

Every morning I see stuff like this where drivers completely doggedly block merging lanes or break lights and block junctions and so on and cause huge tailbacks.

There's constant blocking merges on DC and motorways too once the traffic gets even slightly intense. I've seen it on the M50 and N40 where slip roads completely jam because the traffic on the motorway won't "merge like a zip" and basically block all access.

For example on the N40 (South Ring Cork), between the Bloomfield and Mahon slipways there's a connecting lane which is the merge off on for Bloomfield and the escspe lane for the Mahon exit.

In traffic, it can become pretty much impossible to get from that lane into the main flow of the N40. I know people who have ended up being 'forced' into the next exit having been unable to merge and because traffic will beep / flash if you stop on the lane as significant traffic flows between the two junctions almost like a parallel road.

In many countries they use traffic cops to prevent this kind of nonsense at peak times by moving traffic on.

A bit of traffic management and civilised driving could massively cut some of the traffic problems.

It's like nobody knows how to use multiple lane roads here at all.

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Lantus

Quicker we develop cars that drive themselves quicker we eliminate this problem and the 1million wasted lives killed each year globally by forcing humans to drive high speed 1 ton death bricks around complex road systems.

12Phase

lawred2 wrote: »

It's a bit small town minded to expect everyone on the road to know exactly what they are doing every minute of their journey.

I agree with you on that and I think for a very long time it applied to our signage systems (or lack there of) and signals. I know I had a discussion with an 'official' (not saying of which organisation as I might identify them) once about a really insane traffic light setup in Cork City Centre which was only changed a few years ago.

Basically if you were turning onto Washington Street (a busy 2-lane 1-way road towards UCC) from a side street you were presented with a green right arrow light. However, the traffic on Washington Street wasn't stopped by any signal! So, cars would naturally enough pull out into moving traffic and get beeped at.

This "official" said that "Ah sure they must be from out of town. Sure anyone local knows how it works.

It's been subsequently replaced with a flashing orange filter light, but it took years for them to cop it.

I still find it baffling that in Dublin areas aren't signed at all. You could be driving around for hours and there's no signs for any of the suburbs really at all. Same in Cork (although actually it's a little better).

Also suburbs and town lands are usually not marked. When you arrive in say Stillorgan there's no sign saying STILLORGAN. If you were in France you'd have STILLORGAN and STILLORGAN as you left, at least on all the main roads.

The signage has improved a good bit but only for national primary routes. I still find urban and rural signage can be really patchy. Urban more so actually.

Lantus wrote: »

Quicker we develop cars that drive themselves quicker we eliminate this problem and the 1million wasted lives killed each year globally by forcing humans to drive high speed 1 ton death bricks around complex road systems.

I still think that's going to take a very long time to work beyond standardised very good dual-carriageway and motorways, which are pretty much one step away from guided-transport anyway. They're not called Autobahn in German for nothing (Car Track/Rail)
There's a LOT of random stuff on other roads that it just takes so much processing power that I'm not sure that a computer system would realistically be able to do it.

I think we'll likely see a lot of computer assisted driving e.g. automatic braking if you're oblivious to an obstacle and all of that type of thing a long time before we'll really see full self-drive.

I know the Google prototype is making some progress, but it's still quite a long way off. The major issue is getting sufficient processing power into the car at a reasonable cost. You can't really locate all the controls in a data centre and reliably communicate all the time for a safety-critical thing like driving.

fin12

Ya I find what is the most stressful is driving in a city or big town you are not fimiliar with, people have no patience and just assume you should know where your going and be in the right lane, I recently drove in Limerick city for the first time and got a bit confused with the lanes.

biko

Yeah I know what you mean, it can get stressful.
Try using a phone app like Waze or just Google navigation. It'll make the journey much easier when you get aural instructions where to go.

Charles Babbage

biko wrote: »

Yeah I know what you mean, it can get stressful.
Try using a phone app like Waze or just Google navigation. It'll make the journey much easier when you get aural instructions where to go.

Yes, aural instructions from a Satnav is better than aural instructions from other motorists that you've cut off.

lawred2

Charles Babbage wrote: »

Being in a rental car does not entitle you to act the bollix.
Like ironclaw I've made manys the loop in the USA, but I did not drive dangerously.

Doesn't excuse any other 'knowledgeable' drivers deliberately acting the bollix either..

Like another poster said, two wrongs don't make a right.

cletus

lawred2 wrote: »

Doesn't excuse any other 'knowledgeable' drivers deliberately acting the bollix either..

Like another poster said, two wrongs don't make a right.

But if you are in your correct lane, you are under no obligation to allow somebody to cut in. This same thing happens all the time on my way to work. On a particular roundabout, the left lane is much busier that the right, but people just fly down the right lane, onto the roundabout, then cut into the left lane.

Like ironclaw, I won't allow drivers like that to merge. If I've gone to the trouble of driving correctly, why should I allow some other idiot to force me to stop on a roundabout just because they think their time is more important than mine

biko

Yeah it's simple psychology. If you reward bad behaviour you only increase the likelihood of it happening again.

lawred2

cletus wrote: »

But if you are in your correct lane, you are under no obligation to allow somebody to cut in. This same thing happens all the time on my way to work. On a particular roundabout, the left lane is much busier that the right, but people just fly down the right lane, onto the roundabout, then cut into the left lane.

Like ironclaw, I won't allow drivers like that to merge. If I've gone to the trouble of driving correctly, why should I allow some other idiot to force me to stop on a roundabout just because they think their time is more important than mine

That doesn't make any sense unless that roundabout is designed to specifically facilitate that. Is it a two lane into one exit? If not; then someone is acting the pr!ck - which there are plenty of on the road..

For me; I'd prefer not be a pr!ck back. If someone is prepared to act so boorish so as to get somewhere 5 seconds quicker than me - then best of luck to them. I'm not interested in pointless dick waving exercises..

Cee-Jay-Cee

There are 3 things that drivers do that contribute to traffic jams and hold ups.

1. Drive into yellow boxes when it's clear their exit isn't free and then Get stuck in the of when the lights change and sit there staring dead ahead for fear of catching other irate drivers eyes as they know they're in the wrong.

2. Fail to watch lights changing to green and then fumbling around looking to get the car in gear and handbrake off wasting time.

3. Driving onto roundabouts when their lane is clearly stopped and blocking others using other lanes. This IMO should be a whipping offence.

boardsuser1

Cee-Jay-Cee wrote: »

There are 3 things that drivers do that contribute to traffic jams and hold ups.

1. Drive into yellow boxes when it's clear their exit isn't free and then Get stuck in the of when the lights change and sit there staring dead ahead for fear of catching other irate drivers eyes as they know they're in the wrong.

2. Fail to watch lights changing to green and then fumbling around looking to get the car in gear and handbrake off wasting time.

3. Driving onto roundabouts when their lane is clearly stopped and blocking others using other lanes. This IMO should be a whipping offence.

100 lashes for each.

lawred2

Cee-Jay-Cee wrote: »

There are 3 things that drivers do that contribute to traffic jams and hold ups.

1. Drive into yellow boxes when it's clear their exit isn't free and then Get stuck in the of when the lights change and sit there staring dead ahead for fear of catching other irate drivers eyes as they know they're in the wrong.

2. Fail to watch lights changing to green and then fumbling around looking to get the car in gear and handbrake off wasting time.

3. Driving onto roundabouts when their lane is clearly stopped and blocking others using other lanes. This IMO should be a whipping offence.

I never understand engaging the handbrake at any time other than when parked or when stationary on a steep hill..

traffic lights? pretty much never

beauf

Driving in Ireland is far more aggressive, bullying and selfish than it used to be. No doubt at all. People are just ignorant caveman on the road.

josip

lawred2 wrote: »

That doesn't make any sense unless that roundabout is designed to specifically facilitate that. Is it a two lane into one exit? If not; then someone is acting the pr!ck - which there are plenty of on the road..

For me; I'd prefer not be a pr!ck back. If someone is prepared to act so boorish so as to get somewhere 5 seconds quicker than me - then best of luck to them. I'm not interested in pointless dick waving exercises..

I think the scenario described by cletus has time savings/costs in excess of 5 seconds.
I'm not sure what kind of scenario you have in mind.

dudara

I got in a small argument with my father recently about driving in Cork (I'm from Cork, but have lived in Dublin for years). He maintains that Cork people drive with more consideration than Dublin. I basically said "b***cks". Generalising hugely (so apologies fellow Corkonians), but I've never seen a worse group of drivers for hogging and blocking junctions than Cork drivers. It's a completely different driving culture to Dublin

lawred2

josip wrote: »

I think the scenario described by cletus has time savings/costs in excess of 5 seconds.
I'm not sure what kind of scenario you have in mind.

Erm that driver is already along side me so merging in front of me means at most about a 5 second difference between us exiting the roundabout..

No?

beauf

lawred2 wrote: »

I never understand engaging the handbrake at any time other than when parked or when stationary on a steep hill..

traffic lights? pretty much never

The reason to do it. Is if shunted from behind you aren't launched into the car in front or into on coming traffic.

lawred2

beauf wrote: »

The reason to do it. Is if shunted from behind you aren't launched into the car in front or into on coming traffic.

You wouldn't use the foot brake no?

Much better stopping power then engaging the handbrake for the situation you describe

grogi

lawred2 wrote: »

You wouldn't use the foot brake no?

Much better stopping power then engaging the handbrake for the situation you describe

But handbrake will not disengage when hit from behind. Your foot will...

fin12

lawred2 wrote: »

I never understand engaging the handbrake at any time other than when parked or when stationary on a steep hill..

traffic lights? pretty much never

if you are way back in the line theres nothing wrong with putting the handbrake on, I couldn't keep my leg on the cluthch and break the whole time, it doesnt take that long to release the handbrake. Actually in driving lessons if you are the first 3 cars in the line you should keep your leg on the clutch and break ready to move but any car after that putting up the handbrake and putting in neutral is fine.

lawred2

grogi wrote: »

But handbrake will not disengage when hit from behind. Your foot will...

fair point..

Balmed Out

dudara wrote: »

I got in a small argument with my father recently about driving in Cork (I'm from Cork, but have lived in Dublin for years). He maintains that Cork people drive with more consideration than Dublin. I basically said "b***cks". Generalising hugely (so apologies fellow Corkonians), but I've never seen a worse group of drivers for hogging and blocking junctions than Cork drivers. It's a completely different driving culture to Dublin

Havent driven a lot in Dublin but would have seen many of the same issues when I do.

There has been a lot of tailbacks caused by people on the south ring road staying in one of the two outer lanes rather then joining a large queue at an exit and then trying to merge and not being let in by those who have waited in line.

Seems a lot of people seem to think its perfectly acceptable to go into the wrong lane skip all the traffic and then merge in at the top. I'm even seeing it at the Bandon roundabout recently merging at speed with an amber light and blasting the horn at anyone in the way.

Some traffic police doing something other then checking speed would probably solve things quickly enough.

lawred2

fin12 wrote: »

if you are way back in the line theres nothing wrong with putting the handbrake on, I couldn't keep my leg on the cluthch and break the whole time, it doesnt take that long to release the handbrake. Actually in driving lessons if you are the first 3 cars in the line you should keep your leg on the clutch and break ready to move but any car after that putting up the handbrake and putting in neutral is fine.

Wonder are the first few cars at a red light more or less likely to be rear ended?

Statistically speaking

grogi

Balmed Out wrote: »

Seems a lot of people seem to think its perfectly acceptable to go into the wrong lane skip all the traffic and then merge in at the top. I'm even seeing it at the Bandon roundabout recently merging at speed with an amber light and blasting the horn at anyone in the way.

It is perfectly OK until there is signage to indicate that lane's purpose is different. The tarmac is there to be used and driving should not be like chess - when you plan 5 junctions ahead.

fin12

dudara wrote: »

I got in a small argument with my father recently about driving in Cork (I'm from Cork, but have lived in Dublin for years). He maintains that Cork people drive with more consideration than Dublin. I basically said "b***cks". Generalising hugely (so apologies fellow Corkonians), but I've never seen a worse group of drivers for hogging and blocking junctions than Cork drivers. It's a completely different driving culture to Dublin

Is Dublin difficult to navigate what lanes you should be in in the city? I have never driven there and might drive there in the summer but I'm not sure if I should and just stick with the bus.

fin12

lawred2 wrote: »

Wonder are the first few cars at a red light more or less likely to be rear ended?

Statistically speaking

Guess what happened my dad, he was rear ended by another car, the car was really bashed in at the back the towbar was bashed in aswell, so his car was taken away to be fixed and he had a hire car for about 2 weeks and he only had his own car back 2 days when he was at traffic lights when he was bashed in by another car again, I actually thought he was taking the piss when he rang said he had been bashed in again.

lawred2

fin12 wrote: »

Is Dublin difficult to navigate what lanes you should be in in the city? I have never driven there and might drive there in the summer but I'm not sure if I should and just stick with the bus.

Like everywhere - if you're not familiar with it, especially the circular traffic flows, then yes of course it can be difficult. A good satnav would help.

But as can be evidenced on this thread - you can forget about getting any help from some of the other more 'knowledgeable' drivers.

fin12

lawred2 wrote: »

Like everywhere - if you're not familiar with it, especially the circular traffic flows, then yes of course it can be difficult. A good satnav would help.

But as can be evidenced on this thread - you can forget about getting any help from some of the other more 'knowledgeable' drivers.

I dont particurly want to drive there its just driving there that time might be more easier because i will be staying outside the city in Dublin city university campus.

12Phase

fin12 wrote: »

I dont particurly want to drive there its just driving there that time might be more easier because i will be staying outside the city in Dublin city university campus.

No, Dublin isn't particularly difficult to navigate.
If you can manage Cork City and its one way systems, narrow streets, complicated junctions, traffic jams and the south ring, you can manage Dublin. They're not all that different other than the accents.

lawred2

fin12 wrote: »

I dont particurly want to drive there its just driving there that time might be more easier because i will be staying outside the city in Dublin city university campus.

plenty of buses in from DCU