Idbatterim wrote: » the state own the office block though. Sure wasn't a station box for MN built at the mater?
Idbatterim wrote: » I am going to email Paschal Donoghue about it, I obviously dont have a clue if it is feasible at all geologically, if there is enough space etc, but the location is fantastic, wedged right between the luas line and tara street. build a small tunnel for pedestrian traffic to link to to Oconnell street... Wasnt one of the cost saving measures in MN to reduce the amount of stops, around the OCS area?https://static.rasset.ie/documents/news/redesignedmetronorth.pdf yeah that link shows the image, so my proposal is to simply move the stop from OCS to the site i propose, with all of the *IFS, its a stonesthrow, 150m or so by the looks of it on google maps...
Lads where do you think this is, Germany? Japan? Not a chance in hell the Irish state could pull something as complex as that off, in such a short timeframe. Plans are being submitted NEXT MONTH.
Idbatterim wrote: » I am bloody sure its neither germany or japan unfortunately! complex? surely this would be the simple thing to do. If that monstrosity has to sit there for a while, before being renovated, so be it, if its can save hundred of millions potentially. The kip has been around since 1968, whats another year or two? Put it this way, if this option isnt even thrown out there, there is no way it will happen, the chances being slim as it is...
2 - There's no metro line planned here. You'd need to plan a whole line, which takes years.
3 - Ireland doesn't do joined up thinking - Where have you been the last 20 years???
Idbatterim wrote: » optimised metro plans to run right down that area. I agree, but I dont even look at Japan or Germany and go wow, what they do is just common sense. I am blown away by the morons we have here and the lack of vision and planning though... Two schemes are mothballed and reduced budget versions announced, which are allegedly being worked on now. this proposal for hawkins house, could be a great solution handed to them on a plate!
Grandeeod wrote: » You are too sensible. You are ahead of your time. You talk too much sense. You need to retire from the red tape laden, non-sensical and downright stupid approach to rail transport in Ireland and in particular Dublin. Its just not worth the effort.
You are too sensible. You are ahead of your time. You talk too much sense. You need to retire from the red tape laden, non-sensical and downright stupid approach to rail transport in Ireland and in particular Dublin. Its just not worth the effort.
Unless there's a very sudden change in political interests, I can't see the Dart Underground being built at all.
Idbatterim wrote: » optimised metro plans to run right down that area.
Idbatterim wrote: » a small victory in my mind, was when the joke option, of the luas on street running out to the airport option was ruled out. If they couldnt worm out of it then, during the recession, there is no way they will be able to now. With the large growth in employment, office space, massive need for housing, massive increase in car sales, dublin airport massive growth etc. I reckon Dublin will get these schemes, but bloody when is the question, there was no point in having DU and MN original schemes, if the figures for them couldnt be stomached and meant they would never be built... they simply wont be able to get away with it indefinitely, I think gridlock, growth, the need for higher density housing, office etc is going to force the issue and that is the only thing that will get it going, it sure as hell wont be political will or lack thereof...
Not close enough to Hawkins block though. A good few hundred metres away. You'd need to re-route a whole section of metro, which means a redesigned route. By the time that happened, the new Hawkins House will already be up. There's just no time to do it, not to mention a complete lack of political will.
40 plus years talking about this. Originally at a time when Dublin traffic wasn't that bad. (the right time to talk about it) During the entire noughties we talked the talk again, when traffic and planning was a complete disaster. Now we are talking again. Do you see the trend here? Mark my words DU/MN will be talked and talked about and redesigned again and again and again, while never being built. We have been here before and will be again. And this isn't rhetoric I'm delivering. My opinion is based on historical analysis. Nothing has changed at the decision maker level.
Idbatterim wrote: » but isnt the optimized metro north they are planning, a redesign of the MN route anyway?
BowWow wrote: » Personally I'd love to see Hawkins Hse/Apollo Hse as the site of a new Central Bus Station, replacing Busaras, with a walkway bridge linking to the new Tara Street Dart Station. Luas will be outside the door of Hawkins Hse. In the future an underground walkway could link to the O'Connell Bridge MN station - if ever built, or alternatively an underground station box could be built under the new Hawkins House to be used as part of any future Dublin Underground. Would be the makings of a city centre transport hub.............
Idbatterim wrote: » but isnt the optimized metro north they are planning, a redesign of the MN route anyway? ok, the way I see it and I am as pissed off as anyone at the situation and sent angry emails to the MOT etc. So we go from being a broke, come into a lot of money, these projects have gone through planning and the **** hits the fan with the economy, if it didnt, we would likely have MN and DU now. So **** hits the fan, the city needs these projects and the government need to be seen to do something, but there is no way that they will sanction the original schemes, for a whole host of reasons. So new cheaper and easier to sell to the country schemes are come up with and a compromise is found, isnt that the Irish way. Endless talk, dialogue, keep everyone happy and give them their say etc?
BowWow wrote: » Post 56 in this thread - http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2057475101
Grandeeod wrote: » The lack of DU and MN is a very simple example of politicians having absolutely no conviction or will to actually building it while throwing money at planning it all when money was plentiful.
Idbatterim wrote: » Hang on so after all the planning, design, , hearings, planning permission granted etc, you think that had the boom continued, MN and du wouldn't have went to construction?
keane2097 wrote: » Have there ever been any protests against DU and/or MN by rural people?
Well, look at it this way...current interest rates are at historic lows. Now would be a "good time" to finance either or both of these projects, but instead they have been cancelled. Critical infrastructure for Dublin is a vote lose for the rural TD. Dublin is hobbled by Dail Eireann. It was getting too big for its boots during the days of Dublin County Council, so the Dail simply broke it up a la Margaret Thatcher and the GLC, which had been done a few years previously. It's not just that significant numbers of rural voters are ambivalent towards infrastructure for the capital. They are really upset by it, so long as their local library has a leaking roof (or so long as they have no Olympic sized swimming pool in the parish or whatever). There is a serious lack of comprehension about the important role Dublin plays in our economy. People think you could slice it up into bits and scatter it across the four provinces and you'd get the same benefits. They simply don't understand how cities work and don't appreciate that we need at least one city of international importance to be at the races at all. Dublin needs a directly elected mayor with real powers, including tax raising and spending. Getting that for Dublin is the key to everything else.
Could I trouble you to request an example of "rural ignorance" delaying progress in Dublin?
murphaph wrote: » You don't have to go on a march to be opposed to something. I'm sure you are opposed to many things, against which you've never taken to the streets. By the way, in case it isn't immediately obvious, some rural people don't care about DU/MN and some are even in favour of one/both. But most rural people are not fans of either, once the projects are explained to them (especially the price tags). To pretend otherwise would be silly.
Idbatterim wrote: » ever heard of dublin gets everything? do you believe it, most outside of Dublin do.
Deedsie wrote: » I just want to clarify I live in Dublin, I totally support investment in infrastructure in Dublin. It's badly badly needed. I just think the rural versus urban argument is a bit of a bogus divergence. And giving it credence just gives representatives an excuse for not doing their jobs properly. Just my opinion. Not trying to pick an argument.
Yes.
Grandeeod wrote: » That's very balanced. As one of the people that started this "rural" argument, I'd like to clarify that I am coming at it on the basis of a lot of Dublin TD's over the years not being inherently linked with Dublin and from a more rural background. If you look at the Ministers responsible for Transport (those in temporary office not included) during the boom years starting from 1996, it reads like this. 1996 - Michael Lowry. In that position from 1994. 1997 - 2002 - Mary O'Rourke. 2002 - 2004 - Seamus Brennan.(Dublin TD from Galway) 2004 - 2007 - Martin Cullen. 2007 - 2011 - Noel Dempsey. None of them are from Dublin. All of them were of a fairly decent age while in office. None of them could have any semblence of Dublin's transport problems or the badly needed solutions. All of them were very poor in office. Now that's just the Ministers. Don't for one minute think that Dublin based TDs from non Dublin backgrounds cared any more than the Ministers. The opposition Transport spokespersons from the years above were equally appalling. The Phoenix Park Tunnel is being reopened by a FG Government, because they embraced it, in opposition, (2003) as an alternative to what they considered the astronomical cost of DU. Dennis Naughton from Roscommon was their Transport spokesperson then. It took them less than 2 years in Government to green light it. Two years later they canned DU. I could go on, but honestly there is a rural issue towards developing rail transport in our capital city.
