When aren't you a Catholic?

Sonics2k wrote: »

I said being a Roman Catholic is a black and white issue.

Exactly. Finally we can agree. Once you're baptised, you can consider yourself Catholic and the Church always will. Nice resolution to the thread!

Alia Yummy Bee wrote: »

Precisely, faith is not a black and white issue. I wish it were that simple

To be fair, I never said faith is a black and white issue. I say that as an Agnostic, not an Atheist.

I said being a Roman Catholic is a black and white issue.

ambro25

kneemos wrote: »

If you're babtised you're on the books as a Catholic.

So when, as a "book Catholic", you don't have your child baptised...does that get you off the hook/off the book?

Only asking as, as a "book Catholic" within the meaning of your post but, by the same token, as resolutely non-practicing or -believing as all of the other posts and examples together (pre-marital sex, contraception, booze and meat on Good Friday, and all the rest of the eternal damnation stuff? abso-f***ing-lutely, and thrice better than once at that), I'm genuinely curious about whether this last one finally gets me clear, or whether what was done by my parents can never be undone

Don't get me wrong, finding a school for our unbaptized little one in Dub was an absolute 'mare (eventually settled for the LFI, thanks to French secularity), so principles can come costly :pac:

Sonics2k wrote: »

All right, point taken. I don't know the person in question, but from the commentators words it came across that way.

I won't go into quotes of Pope Francis, or any other pope, considering he has directly contradicted statements made by Pope Benedict.
I'll also leave this here. For Gay Marriage and Against Gay Marriage.

Precisely, faith is not a black and white issue. I wish it were that simple

Alia Yummy Bee wrote: »

Quick, somebody tell the chap that you've made this decision for him . Your black and white view of Catholicism is pretty outdated.

All right, point taken. I don't know the person in question, but from the commentators words it came across that way.

Alia Yummy Bee wrote: »

"Christian doctrine is not a closed system incapable of generating questions, doubts, interrogatives — but is alive, knows being unsettled, enlivened. … It has a face that is not rigid, it has a body that moves and grows, it has a soft flesh" Pope Francis, 2015

I won't go into quotes of Pope Francis, or any other pope, considering he has directly contradicted statements made by Pope Benedict.
I'll also leave this here. For Gay Marriage and Against Gay Marriage.

r93kaey5p2izun

realdanbreen wrote: »

Oh right, I'll take that as a ;)yes.

Right, well I'll take this as an admission of the strong likelihood of arrogant catholics imposing their religion on those who explicitly state they want nothing to do with it then.

Sonics2k wrote: »

Not believing them means you're going to hell in the eyes of the Vatican. Your friend is Christian, as is my best friend, and that's fine. But probably not a Catholic.

1 - No it doesn't mean you're going to hell.
2 - You're refuting the allegation that atheists are busy telling us who is and sin't a Catholic, but doing just that?! Really?!
3 - I think people are in a better position to say what is it they are and aren't, without an outside group with a particular agenda telling them what's what.
4 - Leave aside all religion debate, in Catholic dogma he is a Catholic. Not that I imagine that would carry a lot of weight with you, but consider the position of my friend. Both he and the Church are in agreement on his religious affiliation, you're the only one with a problem with it. Worth thinking about that imo.

Maximus Alexander

Alia Yummy Bee wrote: »

Quick, somebody tell the chap that you've made this decision for him . Your black and white view of Catholicism is pretty outdated.
"Christian doctrine is not a closed system incapable of generating questions, doubts, interrogatives — but is alive, knows being unsettled, enlivened. … It has a face that is not rigid, it has a body that moves and grows, it has a soft flesh" Pope Francis, 2015

Has God been in touch recently with a few rule changes? :pac:

Sonics2k wrote: »

Yeah, I acknowledged this. He's a Christian, not a Catholic.

Quick, somebody tell the chap that you've made this decision for him

. Your black and white view of Catholicism is pretty outdated.
"Christian doctrine is not a closed system incapable of generating questions, doubts, interrogatives — but is alive, knows being unsettled, enlivened. … It has a face that is not rigid, it has a body that moves and grows, it has a soft flesh" Pope Francis, 2015

beach_walker wrote: »

Sure... :pac:

Look it isn't up to you, it's up to each person. I was talking to a friend of mine at the weekend about this. He doesn't regularly go to Mass, has a lot of difficulty with some of the church's teachings but admitted that when faced with hardship (particularly family illness in his case) he's found comfort in having the church there. If it were up to you (thankfully it's not), he'd be down as whatever but he'll be ticking Catholic. He may not be a great one but he certainly considers himself one, and by having been baptised I am in no position to lecture him on the rights/wrongs of this.

I know that some people need to jump through hoops to explain the 80ish% figure but really, c'mon. No amount of pointing to atheists living in fear of their Mammies or people being so stupid they tick the first box available can explain away that the vast majority of the population consider themselves as such.

Yeah, I acknowledged this. He's a Christian, not a Catholic.

The Dogmas are in place, if you do not accept them, then you are not a Catholic, and this is the rules of Vatican mind. You don't get to pick and choose and still be Catholic. It's like saying Muhammed is not the Prophet of Allah, you're not a Muslim if you don't accept it.

I'm not going to get into a whole debate on religion, there's an Atheism & Agnostic forum and a Christianity forum for that kind of stuff.

I'm simply stating, not believing those core things, means you aren't a Catholic. Not believing them means you're going to hell in the eyes of the Vatican. Your friend is Christian, as is my best friend, and that's fine. But probably not a Catholic.

Alia Yummy Bee wrote: »

Very well put. The number of people coming online these days and regaling us with epic tales of how they bravely stood up to their scary mum or ferocious granny and ticked the box, with scant regard for the dire consequences which would obviously befall them.... give me a break.

As I've said previously, this particular one has been around for at least the past three census' (that I'm aware of). Yet funnily enough these oppressed masses have never had the promised breakthrough in that time.

One would have to conclude it's a widely overstated nonsense figure or that they're still living in the attic and afraid of Mammy...

maudgonner

DamagedTrax wrote: »

good effort :D:D

[Although the escientist inside me is screaming out in pain]

I told you to feck off, I spent at least seven minutes searching wikipedia and getting confused by stuff to come up with that.

(It was going to be a photon, but apparently they have mass. I'm guessing they're Easter and Christmas mass-going types to keep the mammy happy, not unlike myself)

Speedwell

maudgonner wrote: »

All week I've been looking at the title of this thread and getting annoyed because it seems like the setup for a joke, but I couldn't complete it.

So here's my best effort:

When aren't you a Catholic?

When you're a gauge boson, because you don't have any mass.

(Fúck off physicists, if you come here and try to contradict that with your stupid science and facts and stuff)

Which part was the joke, the part about not having any mass, or the part about preferring not to be contradicted by science?

beach_walker wrote: »

Sure... :pac:
I know that some people need to jump through hoops to explain the 80ish% figure but really, c'mon. No amount of pointing to atheists living in fear of their Mammies or people being so stupid they tick the first box available can explain away that the vast majority of the population consider themselves as such.

Very well put. The number of people coming online these days and regaling us with epic tales of how they bravely stood up to their scary mum or ferocious granny and ticked the box, with scant regard for the dire consequences which would obviously befall them.... give me a break.

DamagedTrax

maudgonner wrote: »

All week I've been looking at the title of this thread and getting annoyed because it seems like the setup for a joke, but I couldn't complete it.

So here's my best effort:

When aren't you a Catholic?

When you're a gauge boson, because you don't have any mass.

(Fúck off physicists, if you come here and try to contradict that with your stupid science and facts and stuff)

good effort

:D:D

[Although the escientist inside me is screaming out in pain]

Huntergonzo

Sonics2k wrote: »

If you don't accept things like Original Sin, transubstantiation and the essential Dogmas then you're not a Catholic.

You may be religious, you may be believe in God and event accept the Bible as the word of God, but you are not a Catholic. You're more likely to be a Protestant.

Simply put:
If you don't do the above, then don't tick Catholic on the census.

Ah but they will tick the catholic box, emotion tends to trump logic far too often, sadly most of these people we're indoctrinated into the catholic cult from a very young age so no matter how far removed they are from the religion they'll still tick the catholic box.

It's like people who vote the same way their parents vote without objectively considering each candidate, there's absolutely no rhyme or reason for it, but they're going to do it anyway.

My favourite of all though are those who don't even believe in God yet still consider themselves catholic, they're like vegetarian meat eaters, alcoholic pioneers, virgin prostitutes etc etc

maudgonner

All week I've been looking at the title of this thread and getting annoyed because it seems like the setup for a joke, but I couldn't complete it.

So here's my best effort:

When aren't you a Catholic?

When you're a gauge boson, because you don't have any mass.

(Fúck off physicists, if you come here and try to contradict that with your stupid science and facts and stuff)

realdanbreen wrote: »

Boo Hooo!! The bold census people made me tick my religion, boo hoo.
FFS what is it with athiests!

The veil of intellectual superiority drops every five years when confronted with a multiple choice question. Make of that what you will.

Sonics2k wrote: »

Well no, it's not a case of Atheists being bossy or telling you who is and isn't Catholic
....
If you don't accept things like Original Sin, transubstantiation and the essential Dogmas then you're not a Catholic.

Sure... :pac:

Look it isn't up to you, it's up to each person. I was talking to a friend of mine at the weekend about this. He doesn't regularly go to Mass, has a lot of difficulty with some of the church's teachings but admitted that when faced with hardship (particularly family illness in his case) he's found comfort in having the church there. If it were up to you (thankfully it's not), he'd be down as whatever but he'll be ticking Catholic. He may not be a great one but he certainly considers himself one, and by having been baptised I am in no position to lecture him on the rights/wrongs of this.

I know that some people need to jump through hoops to explain the 80ish% figure but really, c'mon. No amount of pointing to atheists living in fear of their Mammies or people being so stupid they tick the first box available can explain away that the vast majority of the population consider themselves as such.

DamagedTrax

realdanbreen wrote: »

Boo Hooo!! The bold census people made me tick my religion, boo hoo.
FFS what is it with athiests!

Im guessing its something to do with the fact that they dont subscribe to any religion.

Kinda like asking a lesbian to get over themselves and just pick a penis...

When aren't you a Catholic?

You are a Catholic if you have been baptised and if you consider yourself one. Whether you're a particularly 'good' or adherent Catholic is really a matter for yourself and your God. It's not something that could or should be dealt with in a census.

I don't think it's for me, or anyone else on this thread to try and define other people's faith for them. Just tick the box that applies to you. It's not rocket science.

Zen65

Sonics2k wrote: »

If you don't accept things like Original Sin, transubstantiation and the essential Dogmas then you're not a Catholic.

You may be religious, you may be believe in God and event accept the Bible as the word of God, but you are not a Catholic. You're more likely to be a Protestant.

Too often, people confuse their faith with their allegiance. I'm certain that Sonics2k is correct to state you cannot be a Catholic in the proper meaning if you reject the core teachings of it, but you may not like to state an allegiance to the Religion which most closely matches your actual beliefs, which for many Catholics is actually some form of Protestantism. Life is funny like that.