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The ITV Thread

irishmusicfeed

So UTV Ireland is launching on January 01, 2015 with a proper launch of its schedule on January 5.... It's now November 10 and no advertising online, in magazine, newspapers, billboards etc for programmes and launch.

No news on whether it will be on Saorview... probably one of the worst channel launches in history?

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keps

Just because a perception is incorrect - does not mean it is invalid to the person holding it.

But then again it is in our interest to be correctly informed!

Elmo

keps wrote: »

Just because a perception is incorrect - does not mean it is invalid to the person holding it.

But then again it is in our interest to be correctly informed!

Perception has been a huge part of it. No matter how much someone on boards might say this show is distributed by BBC Worldwide or that show by Fremantle and UTV Ireland only bought ITV Studios slate of programmes UTV Ireland didn't make that clear from the outset.

UTV Ireland wanted to use a well known brand with well known shows to break the market that they had large lost in the previous 10 years.

The problem was that UTV Ireland didn't have the type of programme expected by those on Cable and on Satellite.

Both TV3 and UTV Ireland were unwilling to point out that one ITV show would be on TV3 while another would be on UTV Ireland.

E.g. why wouldn't UTV Ireland tweet "We don't hold the rights to the NTA, they are held with TV3 and they made the decision not to broadcast it live". Instead they just said the right were held with another broadcaster. Let TV3 take the heat for the lack of a simulcast. Or RTÉ depending on the show.

UTV should not have used the brand, in reality if they had called the channel STV Ireland they would have got the same kind of audience.

political analyst

icdg wrote: »

It's an incorrect perception though. Believe me, UTV Ireland would like nothing more than to be able to air the full ITV network schedule, news aside. If they are not airing an ITV programme, 9 times out of 10 it's not that they "can't be bothered" - it's that they don't have the rights.

So why didn't they wait in order to resolve that issue before they launched the channel?

icdg

Because it could have taken a couple of years for entertainment programming alone, and even longer (and no guarantee of successfully doing it) for sports. Remember that they weren't owned by ITV at the time, and without ITV changing their commissioning rules (not something within UTV's control) they have to negotiate separately with every company and sports rights holder providing programming to ITV. It just wasn't a feasible exercise while they weren't owned by ITV. Now that they are owned by ITV it becomes feasible, but that's ITV's call to make and I'm not sure they've decided yet what their long term plan is for UTV Ireland, about which they've been remarkable quiet since the acquisition completed.

Sam Russell

What was very bad was TV3 showing an old version of a programme at the same time UTVi was showing the current one.

UTVi should have advertised their offerings on RTE and TV3, and also their radio channels.

Elmo

UTV's lack of use of their Radio station was incredibly foolish. Here they had an opertunity to provide news from already established news rooms.

Their investment into their new offices and studio was just throwing money down the drain.

Also UTV could never have resolved BBC WW distribution rights as RTÉ signed a multi-year deal in 2014.

Gonzo

not a word on what ITV is planning to do with UTV Ireland which is a bit strange, tho UTV Ireland is a far more complicated mess to sort out than UTV NI. I think we will end up with either of the following:

1 Easy Option: Sell or close down the channel.
2 Medium Option: Reband the channel to a new identity and format with no trace of the ITV network.
3 Difficult Option: Slowly transform into ITV Ireland waiting for programming rights to fall into place and have the same ITV as the UK with news opt outs.

icdg

I would more or less rule out your "Medium Option" straight away, they have access to ITV Studios programming (now as an internal rather than external arrangement) and it would be throwing money out to window to say, "we won't use that, we'll ignore it and go out and buy third party (presumably American) programming".

They will close down the station, wholly or partially sell it, or retain it and do as good a job at fully incorporating it into the ITV network as the rights issues and political issues will allow, Sports will always be a problem, and there will be political obstacles to carrying ITN. But the rest is within ITV's power if they want to play the long game. Presumably even now they are preparing to review where UTV Ireland fits into their long term strategy.

Elmo

I can see them selling. Though it wouldn't be a great sale.

1. itv would have to keep debts and losses (as they are the main creditor it might not be a problem)
2. New owners would have to get the rights to sell adverts on ITV other channels.
3. ITV Name retention (if not being sold to competitor)
4. At least 5 year deal for ITV studios programming and more likely that the channel acts like STV as part of the ITV network. In other words access to non-ITV studios content.

icdg

Ultimately the test will be whether ITV think they can make more money from advertising than they would from the sale of the content to a third party. Furthermore I can imagine the only third party who would take a comprehensive content deal would be TV3 - RTÉ might be interested in Coronation Street on its own but not particuarly anything else (even when they showed Emmerdale it was as daytime filler).

lertsnim

Sam Russell wrote: »

What was very bad was TV3 showing an old version of a programme at the same time UTVi was showing the current one.

UTVi should have advertised their offerings on RTE and TV3, and also their radio channels.

Even worse was TV3 putting New on the EPG before the programme name.

Jack Killian

icdg wrote: »

I would more or less rule out your "Medium Option" straight away, they have access to ITV Studios programming (now as an internal rather than external arrangement) and it would be throwing money out to window to say, "we won't use that, we'll ignore it and go out and buy third party (presumably American) programming".

They will close down the station, wholly or partially sell it, or retain it and do as good a job at fully incorporating it into the ITV network as the rights issues and political issues will allow, Sports will always be a problem, and there will be political obstacles to carrying ITN. But the rest is within ITV's power if they want to play the long game. Presumably even now they are preparing to review where UTV Ireland fits into their long term strategy.

Not sure how carrying ITN would be purely political. If ITN had a world service like BBC then fair enough, but I can't see many Irish people agreeing that "Prime Minister visits Southend Old Folks Home" is suitable for airing on an Irish channel as "news".

And that's even with the difference in titles which would help diffuse confusion; imagine a "Minister for Social Welfare announces 12% cut" report!

political analyst

Jack Killian wrote: »

Not sure how carrying ITN would be purely political. If ITN had a world service like BBC then fair enough, but I can't see many Irish people agreeing that "Prime Minister visits Southend Old Folks Home" is suitable for airing on an Irish channel as "news".

And that's even with the difference in titles which would help diffuse confusion; imagine a "Minister for Social Welfare announces 12% cut" report!

On that note, ITN produced a world news programme for the Super Channel, which was founded by the ITV Network, and also for public television in the United States.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NBC_Europe

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ITN_World_News

As for UTV Ireland not working with ITN for the provision of international news to viewers in the Republic, there was an early indicator of that back in 2012 - in reports on the Paralympics, ITV News featured clips from Channel 4's coverage but UTV Live featured clips from Setanta's coverage.

Elmo

political analyst wrote: »

On that note, ITN produced a world news programme for the Super Channel, which was founded by the ITV Network, and also for public television in the United States.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NBC_Europe

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ITN_World_News

As for UTV Ireland not working with ITN for the provision of international news to viewers in the Republic, there was an early indicator of that back in 2012 - in reports on the Paralympics, ITV News featured clips from Channel 4's coverage but UTV Live featured clips from Setanta's coverage.

Setanta may have had the rights to NI coverage considering it's closure in GB did not happen in Ireland (both jurisdictions).

Elmo

Jack Killian wrote: »

Not sure how carrying ITN would be purely political. If ITN had a world service like BBC then fair enough, but I can't see many Irish people agreeing that "Prime Minister visits Southend Old Folks Home" is suitable for airing on an Irish channel as "news".

And that's even with the difference in titles which would help diffuse confusion; imagine a "Minister for Social Welfare announces 12% cut" report!

Use of certain terms does help. Generally ministers are referred to as "secretary of..." In the UK while we use the term Taoiseach for prime minister, however in saying that I think that most want international / UK stories that effect Ireland e.g. brExit and the U.S. Presidential campaign or terrorism attacks. Ireland Live would use the reports from that perspective.

AFAIK RTÉ2's newsnight in its early days did this with the news reader say this report from ITN's ... Or BBC's ... Or NBC's... Etc something RTÉ radio does.

Jack Killian

Elmo wrote: »

Use of certain terms does help. Generally ministers are referred to as "secretary of..." In the UK while we use the term Taoiseach for prime minister, however in saying that I think that most want international / UK stories that effect Ireland e.g. brExit and the U.S. Presidential campaign or terrorism attacks. Ireland Live would use the reports from that perspective.

AFAIK RTÉ2's newsnight in its early days did this with the news reader say this report from ITN's ... Or BBC's ... Or NBC's... Etc something RTÉ radio does.

Early days and years ago maybe. But even then I'd reckon that the reporter would have phrased the report knowing that it had a wider audience, with an agreement in place.

It's fairly rare nowadays that a report would be lifted verbatim off-the-air of a foreign channel.

I could see it working for a lot of generic European or American stories alright. Not all of them though, as the same context wouldn't apply. UK ones no. Whatever about selected reports, running their news verbatim would be dire.

Then again, some people don't raise an eyebrow with TV3's odd naming when it comes to "Take Me Out 'Ireland'" or "The Nation's XXXXX", and some of the 'national' stations forgetting that they have a non-Dublin audience and leaving out "01" prefixes and ", Dublin" in addresses, so maybe respecting the context and frame of reference of your audience is a priority that's dying off.

Elmo

Jack Killian wrote: »

Then again, some people don't raise an eyebrow with TV3's odd naming when it comes to "Take Me Out 'Ireland'" or "The Nation's XXXXX", and some of the 'national' stations forgetting that they have a non-Dublin audience and leaving out "01" prefixes and ", Dublin" in addresses, so maybe respecting the context and frame of reference of your audience is a priority that's dying off.

TV3 did actually produce a version of Take Me Out, which the referred to as Take Me Out Ireland, as they also broadcast the ITV version of the show, which BTW has been lost some how neither UTV Ireland or TV3 own the series.

RTÉ like most national organisations haven't used Dublin numbers since the mid-1990's most are lo-call numbers, which in the mobile age cause more problems as its often not considered part of your call package, I assume that lo-call numbers in general are not part of any landline call package either.

Jack Killian

Elmo wrote: »

TV3 did actually produce a version of Take Me Out, which the referred to as Take Me Out Ireland, as they also broadcast the ITV version of the show, which BTW has been lost some how neither UTV Ireland or TV3 own the series.

That's my point. The Irish version gets the suffix added when it should be the UK getting a "(UK)" suffix added.

icdg

I think ye'all missed my point entirely, it was nothing to do with terminology (most people don't really care, to be honest, and those that do care that much probably will be spending their time watching RTE and TG4 anyway), and as pointed out, ITN have experience reporting from an international perspective anyway.

Rather it was to do with the fact that UTV have committed to providing an Irish news service to remain on Saorview. That was what their request to be designated a PSB was based on and if they want to keep that status (which appears to remain a prequisite for Saorview carriage) they need to keep up the Irish news service. That doesn't mean they can't turn to ITN for breaking news or international stories (but they need to do a deal first) but they need to provide a primarily Irish news service.

iseegirls

Elmo wrote: »

TV3 did actually produce a version of Take Me Out, which the referred to as Take Me Out Ireland, as they also broadcast the ITV version of the show, which BTW has been lost some how neither UTV Ireland or TV3 own the series.

Series 8 of Take Me Out started last Saturday on TV3.

channelsurfer2

No marcella on tonight on utvirl. Strange one this as Netflix have bought none UK and IRL rights leaving us guessing who has the irish rights.

AwaitYourReply

Sam Russell wrote: »

What was very bad was TV3 showing an old version of a programme at the same time UTVi was showing the current one.

UTVi should have advertised their offerings on RTE and TV3, and also their radio channels.

TV3 (Ireland) and it's sister channel 3e have boxed very clever since the launch of UTV Ireland back on 01.01.2015. I suppose the whole TV3 Group out in Ballymount had to engage in a major battle to survive after the huge advertising slump to impact on all media in light of the 2008 economic downturn. The launch of a new terrestrial Irish based TV station in the form of UTV Ireland buying Coronation Street & Emmerdale at a time when advertising had still not fully recovered must have been another headache so; I suspect they had to make the most of the programming the had already bought rights to. In fairness to TV3 Group, they also invested in the likes of a new urban based Irish drama called RedRock which was a major risk that had to be balanced in other parts of their schedule. In addition to that, TV3 Group managed to showcase exclusive Ireland TV coverage of the 2015 Rugby World Cup and they did not do a bad job considering their financial situation at the time. TV3 also won the battle with RTÉ where live breakfast television is concerned with Ireland AM while RTÉ attempted to launch Morning Edition with Keelin Shanley but later axed the show. In the meantime, TV3 have since expanded into Ireland AM to the weekends with Saturday AM and Sunday AM.

That said, I would welcome the inclusion of proper live TV News at Weekends from both TV3 and UTV Ireland too. TV3 used to present a 5:30pm early evening news bulletin on Sat/Sun/Public Holidays in it's earlier days and I think it used often be fronted by Ray Kennedy (now with RTÉ) and Conor McNamara with Sport (later moved to BBC Radio5 Live Sport)

AwaitYourReply

icdg wrote: »

Ultimately the test will be whether ITV think they can make more money from advertising than they would from the sale of the content to a third party. Furthermore I can imagine the only third party who would take a comprehensive content deal would be TV3 - RTÉ might be interested in Coronation Street on its own but not particuarly anything else (even when they showed Emmerdale it was as daytime filler).

It's important to point out that when RTÉ had the Republic of Ireland rights to broadcast shows like Coronation Street and Emmerdale Farm (later Emmerdale) they had been showing episodes from the back catalogues for both of these shows for many years.

When RTÉ2 tv channel first commenced in 1978 Coronation Street went out on RTÉ2 as part of a 30 minute programming slot Mon-Fri even though ITV in those days were showing the latest shot episodes less frequently as there were only 2-3 episodes that went out per week. Those were the days before any of the soaps even had Omnibus editions at weekends. Of course in the late '80s when RTÉ2 became rebranded as Network 2, Coronation Street then got shifted over to RTÉ 1 TV until TV3 secured the rights in later years. Eventually RTÉ caught up with same episode storylines as shown on ITV and in later years Corrie decided to shoot more material ensuring more episodes went out every week.

When RTÉ 1 Television had Emmerdale Farm all those years ago, it was shown in a late afternoon slots following shows like "Live at 3" (with Derek Davis & Thelma Mansfield) and in those days it was also showing a back catalogue as ITV were also ahead with Emmerdale Farm in their storylines for many years. I can't recall if the storylines managed to catch up on RTÉ before Emmerdale switched over when TV3 launched back in September 1998.

Elmo

RTÉ2 had caught up to ITV by the early 80s, it was moved to RTÉ One temporally due to Network 2's coverage of the Olympic Games in 1992, it remained due to higher audience figures until 2001 when TV3 was part bought by Granada (now ITV).

RTÉ where just 3 months behind on emmerdale. RTÉ aired the soap 5 days a week but once it caught up with ITV it would take a break. This worked up until ITV began broadcasting the show 5 nights at this point RTÉ remain 3 months behind.

TV3 didn't get either until 2001, TV3 launched with Breakers, Family Affairs and EastEnders. Breakers last one year, Family Affairs was axed in the mid2000s and continued for a year and a half on TV3, while RTÉ choose to use their first choice deal with BBC to get EastEnders in 2001.

icdg

Elmo is right - deal between TV3 and Granada was announced September 2000 and took effect in 2001. However we are in danger of turning the thread into a TV3 discussion here.

Rick_

The Voice UK auditions have been announced for when the show moves to ITV next year. Belfast, Derry, Cork and Dublin are amongst the first places for auditions starting this weekend. I wonder if the interest in Irish contestants means they'll be making sure The Voice UK gets shown on U/ITV Ireland next year.

Wonder how RTÉ feel about them trying to get Irish acts to appear on the British version of the show and not their native version!

Infoanon

pad e wrote: »

The Voice UK auditions have been announced for when the show moves to ITV next year. Belfast, Derry, Cork and Dublin are amongst the first places for auditions starting this weekend. I wonder if the interest in Irish contestants means they'll be making sure The Voice UK gets shown on U/ITV Ireland next year.

Wonder how RTÉ feel about them trying to get Irish acts to appear on the British version of the show and not their native version!

Happening anyway - a number of Irish acts appeared on the BBC version.

Wonder how long before we learn if ITV have exclusive rights for Ireland

keps

But did the BBC come to Rep of Ireland to conduct auditions?

It seems a bit odd that ITV is coming to a country which has its own 'The Voice' franchise- looking for contestants!

I'm sure RTE would not be allowed to audition in Liverpool or Camden!

Edit

Maye RTE are not doing a 2017 Voice programme?

Elmo

keps wrote: »

But did the BBC come to Rep of Ireland to conduct auditions?

It seems a bit odd that ITV is coming to a country which has its own 'The Voice' franchise- looking for contestants!

I'm sure RTE would not be allowed to audition in Liverpool or Camden!

Edit

Maye RTE are not doing a 2017 Voice programme?

ITV and the producers will look at as ITV and TV3 did for XFactor. The Irish Interest is important. For example if we go back to

That's my point. The Irish version gets the suffix added when it should be the UK getting a "(UK)" suffix added.

TV3 did air "Britain and Ireland's Fattest Looser" pure to show an Irish interest in the show with Irish contestants, which IMO is much worse.

keps

But there was no Irish franchised version of 'The X Factor'.

There is an Irish version of 'The Voice'

I am just surprised that the show runners of the British franchise are allowed to come into the jurisdiction of another franchise holder to attract talent from the same small pool.