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Glasnevin Cemetery Monument.

kneemos

A monument naming all of those killed in The Rising, including British soldiers has been erected in Galsnevin. Apparently some of our comrades have deemed it inappropriate and decided to have a wee protest.
Seems fitting to me especially given some British soldiers are buried there.
What are the thoughts on the monument?

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Strazdas

I'm in favour of the wall myself and think it's fitting.

On the Michael Portillo documentary that was shown recently, he included testimony from one of the officers in the Sherwood Foresters saying they were shocked and dismayed to hear they were being sent to Dublin to put down a rebellion, as they had absolutely no desire to fight Irish people. The ordinary foot soldiers had no quarrel with Irish people or their desire for independence and were just obeying orders.

diomed

davycc wrote: »

fair enough but its in such bad taste id like to FOI request on the minutes of whatever meeting they dreamt this up at

Is this to get the names of the people who voted, or do you just like reading minutes?
Some info is available under Freedom Of Information, some under Data Protection. Check this before you head out.

rsh118

FTA69 wrote: »

Utterly cringing and post colonial head-hanging bullsh*t, you wouldn't find it in any other European country.

Shameful, totally f*cking shameful.

http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/remembrance-day-memorial-pays-tribute-fallen-all-sides-first-world-war-1473722

Apart from France perhaps?

We stand now on the right side of history, where we remember all the fallen, from every war. Yes we talk about and debate their crimes, but first and foremost we remember that a life ended before it had to.

davycc

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

Advocating vandalism and criminal damage, Stay classy :rolleyes:

thanks sarge im sure you delighted with endas bending over backwards to 'honour' those brave and classy staffordshires :rolleyes:

The flying mouse

Strazdas wrote: »

I'm in favour of the wall myself and think it's fitting.

On the Michael Portillo documentary that was shown recently, he included testimony from one of the officers in the Sherwood Foresters saying they were shocked and dismayed to hear they were being sent to Dublin to put down a rebellion, as they had absolutely no desire to fight Irish people. The ordinary foot soldiers had no quarrel with Irish people or their desire for independence and were just obeying orders.

I think the ordinary foot soldiers of most armies of the world dont have quarrels with the local people,there all just doing there jobs and obeying orders,for the most part.imo.

Timberrrrrrrr

davycc wrote: »

thanks sarge im sure you delighted with endas bending over backwards to 'honour' those brave and classy staffordshires :rolleyes:

Sad that you spend every minute of everyday wringing your hands over things like this, Maybe go get some fresh air it will do you the world of good.

kneemos

Strazdas wrote: »

I'm in favour of the wall myself and think it's fitting.

On the Michael Portillo documentary that was shown recently, he included testimony from one of the officers in the Sherwood Foresters saying they were shocked and dismayed to hear they were being sent to Dublin to put down a rebellion, as they had absolutely no desire to fight Irish people. The ordinary foot soldiers had no quarrel with Irish people or their desire for independence and were just obeying orders.

In the documentary I saw they were dismayed at having to fight their fellow countrymen.

corner of hells

I'm a descendent from 1916 combatants who fought in Stephens Green area , I also a descendent of an RIC man who has a grave in Glasnevin who fought in the Battle of Tallaght , worth Googling too .. I'm ok with the wall.

rsh118

Have to say, reasoned and sensible debate like this makes me extremely proud of our country.

We don't fall into the trap of believing everything we did was right and everything they did was wrong. There are many shades of grey. There were in US, UK, Chinese, Malian, and any other nation's history you care to mention.

We've done well.

muddypaws

Conscription was introduced in January 1916, so we don't know how many of the British soldiers that died had no choice about whether they wore the uniform or not. They definitely didn't have a choice as to where they were sent.

Most of the soldiers would have been ordinary working class people, the same kind of British people that had supported and helped to feed Irish men, women and children only 3 years earlier.

Strazdas

kneemos wrote: »

In the documentary I saw they were dismayed at having to fight their fellow countrymen.

Yes, they signed up to go to war with Germany on the western front, not to be opening fire on Irishmen on the streets of Dublin.

rsh118

What's sad for me is that you would have had soldiers on the street with the same goal as the rebels.

Many signed up because they believed that by showing they would fight for the empire, they'd get something back.

The man firing bullets out of the GPO had the same goal as the man firing bullets back into it.

Sobering thought.

osarusan

FTA69 wrote: »

Utterly cringing and post colonial head-hanging bullsh*t, you wouldn't find it in any other European country.

The words from Kemal Ataturk on a monument at Gallipoli:

Those heroes that shed their blood and lost their lives ... You are now lying in the soil of a friendly country. Therefore rest in peace. There is no difference between the Johnnies and the Mehmets to us where they lie side by side here in this country of ours ... You, the mothers who sent their sons from faraway countries, wipe away your tears; your sons are now lying in our bosom and are in peace. After having lost their lives on this land they have become our sons as well.

corner of hells

osarusan wrote: »

The words from Kemal Ataturk on a monument at Gallipoli:

Says it all really , good post.

davycc

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

Sad that you spend every minute of everyday wringing your hands over things like this, Maybe go get some fresh air it will do you the world of good.

im doing great thanks for the concern timbs . get plenty of fresh air as it is love the outdoors and this beautiful country of ours

you might be fine with the staffordshires names up there but im not, if some caped crusader blows it up in the middle of the night i wont complain:P

corner of hells

davycc wrote: »

im doing great thanks for the concern timbs . get plenty of fresh air as it is love the outdoors and this beautiful country of ours

you might be fine with the staffordshires names up there but im not, if some caped crusader blows it up in the middle of the night i wont complain:P

Batman is not real.

super_furry

FTA69 wrote: »

Utterly cringing and post colonial head-hanging bullsh*t, you wouldn't find it in any other European country. I wonder will the Greeks start putting up memorials for the Wehrmacht who died while occupying their country in the interests of parity?

Out of interest, how many Greeks were in the Wehrmacht?

Dyr

Strazdas wrote: »

I'm in favour of the wall myself and think it's fitting.

On the Michael Portillo documentary that was shown recently, he included testimony from one of the officers in the Sherwood Foresters saying they were shocked and dismayed to hear they were being sent to Dublin to put down a rebellion, as they had absolutely no desire to fight Irish people. The ordinary foot soldiers had no quarrel with Irish people or their desire for independence and were just obeying orders.

a) Michael Portillo. Thats enough
b) Watch some of the interviews of the sherwood foresters where they allude to the treatment they meted out to suspected rebels under martial law. They were professional soldiers not schoolboys crying down their sights. Nothing in league of scumbaggery that the staffordshires were up to, who are also commemorated on this wall I suppose.

The act of commemoration for events like this takes sides and it should take sides. What the easter commemoration was always about was to pay homage to the men and women who founded this republic. That is the act we commemorate

Official Ireland and Fine Gael in particular have tried to shift the purpose because it has never sat well with their own agenda. Apparently now what we commemorate is that there was a battle and some people died and its all a bit tragic.

Like I said, I await a similar wall being erected out in Island Bridge. Might not have enough slate in the country for that one though

uck51js9zml2yt

Just up here now. Its well done. Just a pity the path in front is so narrow. Kinda crowded.

The gate on yge steps to O'Connells mausoleum is also open.

There will always be bigots. No doubt the ones who are against this will be cheering on the guys throwing petrol bombs !

Liberosis

FTA69 wrote: »

Imagine, the likes of James Connolly's name could be up on the wall and held in esteem alongside the soldiers that shot him in the name of British imperialist.

Shameful, totally f*cking shameful.

What about the soldiers whom were shot by Connolly, or under his orders? Are they not worthy of respect and remembrance? Every person on that wall gave their life for their country.

Tell me, how could you get up out of bed this morning with all that bitterness weighing you down? The only thing shameful about it is the group of idiots protesting outside.

Dyr

super_furry wrote: »

Out of interest, how many Greeks were in the Wehrmacht?

How many Micks were in the staffordshires and sherwood foresters?

I understand the greeks never mentioned any German causalities on the memorial to Kandanos. I doubt you'd approve.

HalloweenJack

Self-righteous fenians are probably the most annoying people out there. They are so full of hate but when this is pointed out to them, they go into a full-on rant about how bad the Brits were, blanketly accusing them of racism, etc..

I have no time for them. I'm a 32 county man and very patriotic but I refuse to waste my life hating people over stuff that's history.

Arsemageddon

FTA69 wrote: »

Utterly cringing and post colonial head-hanging bullsh*t, you wouldn't find it in any other European country. I wonder will the Greeks start putting up memorials for the Wehrmacht who died while occupying their country in the interests of parity? Imagine, the likes of James Connolly's name could be up on the wall and held in esteem alongside the soldiers that shot him in the name of British imperialist.

Shameful, totally f*cking shameful.

On Crete there is a memorial monument that was erected by the Germans to commemorate their paratroopers that died during the Invasion of Crete in 1941. After the war the Greeks left the monument standing as they saw it as just another part of their history. It has only become dilapidated in the last 20 years.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fallschirmj%C3%A4ger_memorial

All around the world war graves of enemy combatants are treated with respect by the nations they invaded. The Turkish leader Kemal Attaturk is commonly attributed with making a rather beautiful speech about the graves of the dead allied soldiers after the Gallipoli campaign which I will quote below.

Those heroes that shed their blood and lost their lives ... You are now lying in the soil of a friendly country. Therefore rest in peace. There is no difference between the Johnnies and the Mehmets to us where they lie side by side here in this country of ours. You, the mothers who sent their sons from faraway countries, wipe away your tears; your sons are now lying in our bosom and are in peace. After having lost their lives on this land they have become our sons as well.

I don't think there is anything shameful about the Glasnevin monument

Arsemageddon

buried wrote: »

Substandard chinese black granite that's doused in oil over in China's quarries. It'll be grey within 5 years time.

Cowboys Ted, Cowboys!

Sure you could talk that wall into coming down.

Jawgap

davycc wrote: »

I'm a great grand nephew of someone who fought in the Rising (the ICA) - I didn't get the memo about having to be agin' this - I'm ok with it.

uck51js9zml2yt

I go to slovakia a lot and there is a German war cemetery near where I stay which is kept in good repair by the locals.
They should have issues based on some of these posts based on what the Nazis did in their country.

Another Slovak is Thomas Richenthal who lives in Dublin. He had his whole family killed by the Nazis and he reconciled with the daughter of his families killer. She was octracised by her family for meeting him. He's A bigger man than a lot of people here.

Dyr

HalloweenJack wrote: »

Self-righteous fenians are probably the most annoying people out there. They are so full of hate but when this is pointed out to them, they go into a full-on rant about how bad the Brits were, blanketly accusing them of racism, etc..

I have no time for them. I'm a 32 county man and very patriotic but I refuse to waste my life hating people over stuff that's history.

If you're going to start a rant about self righteous hate, it's probably best not to have the first three words give the game away that you're actually overflowing with self righteous hate yourself

Little tip there chief

Jawgap

Bambi wrote: »

How many Micks were in the staffordshires and sherwood foresters?

I understand the greeks never mentioned any German causalities on the memorial to Kandanos. I doubt you'd approve.

None.

The Micks were in France with a battalion in reserve in Fermoy.

uck51js9zml2yt

Jawgap wrote: »

None.

The Micks were in France with a battalion in reserve in Fermoy.

Irishmen died on Northumberland road as they marched in with their troops into the city centre.

Iwasfrozen

davycc wrote: »

fingers crossed some brave soul takes a chisel to it soon....

glasnevin management have the stupidity to say the wall represents modern ireland . well not in my name, or the 1916 families names:rolleyes:

You aren't condoning illegal activity are you Davy?