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Leinster Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread VII: The Fan-base Awakens

.ak

There has been an awakening ... Have you felt it?

Cont. from here.

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Buer

Deleted User wrote: »

we need all the numbers we can get.

By all means put in Denis Hurley then.

The likes of himself and Downey chugging through midfield has not been seen since the 1997 Provincial Towns Cup.

brokenhooker

CMOTDibbler wrote: »

I'd class Steve Crosbie as a ten. He's played in that position for most of his life; although I've often criticised him for playing like a 12

But that's his primary position, 12 at a pinch.

he has been playing 12 almost totally for the A team. He isn't viewed as a 10 by the professional outfit but a 12, much like how Reid ended up moving to 12.

not that it matters as he won't be at leinster much longer.

whatawaster

Mahatma Geansai wrote: »

22 of the Munster 23 are Irish Qualified.
18 of the Munster 23 are from the academy/youth system.
21 of the Munster 23 are 30 or younger and the average age of the squad is only 26.

19 of the Leinster 23 are Irish Qualified.
15 of the Leinster 23 are from the academy/youth system.
17 of the Leinster 23 are 30 or younger and the average age of the squad is 28.

That is how both squads compare. To me, it indicates that the Leinster academy may be underperforming when you compare it to its Munster counterpart; especially so when you compare the populations of both provinces.

Not sure who is missing from Munster squad, but Leinster are without Rob Kearney, Luke Fitzgerald, Sean O'Brien, Jack Conan and Marty Moore through injury - all academy graduates.

It's an interesting snapshot, but doesn't tell the full story.

[Deleted User]

former total wrote: »

Eh, hello?

Noel 'Could be Leo's Son' Reid 2014

CMOTDibbler

brokenhooker wrote: »

Crosbie, Farrell, Daly, Ringrose & Brewer is 5.

O'Loughlin started off at centre too so you could say 6.

I'd class Steve Crosbie as a ten. He's played in that position for most of his life; although I've often criticised him for playing like a 12

But that's his primary position, 12 at a pinch.

[Deleted User]

Mahatma Geansai wrote: »

22 of the Munster 23 are Irish Qualified.
18 of the Munster 23 are from the academy/youth system.
21 of the Munster 23 are 30 or younger and the average age of the squad is only 26.

19 of the Leinster 23 are Irish Qualified.
15 of the Leinster 23 are from the academy/youth system.
17 of the Leinster 23 are 30 or younger and the average age of the squad is 28.

That is how both squads compare. To me, it indicates that the Leinster academy may be underperforming when you compare it to its Munster counterpart; especially so when you compare the populations of both provinces.

And this is how you misuse data

salmocab

Mahatma Geansai wrote: »

22 of the Munster 23 are Irish Qualified.
18 of the Munster 23 are from the academy/youth system.
21 of the Munster 23 are 30 or younger and the average age of the squad is only 26.

19 of the Leinster 23 are Irish Qualified.
15 of the Leinster 23 are from the academy/youth system.
17 of the Leinster 23 are 30 or younger and the average age of the squad is 28.

That is how both squads compare. To me, it indicates that the Leinster academy may be underperforming when you compare it to its Munster counterpart; especially so when you compare the populations of both provinces.

I was about to thank you and make a point that this shows well for the academies in general but you had to ruin it. In reality you have to compare a lot more than these 3 things to judge the two academies.

brokenhooker

CMOTDibbler wrote: »

Not as far as I know. There are currently four centres in the academy which bears out what I've been saying about meeting a perceived need in the pro squad.

Crosbie, Farrell, Daly, Ringrose & Brewer is 5.

O'Loughlin started off at centre too so you could say 6.

Mahatma Geansai

Buer wrote: »

Motion to have James Downey struck from the list and disassociated from Leinster, please.

Poor Downey. That's a terrible way to treat the man who paved the way for modern Leinster backs. :pac:

brokenhooker

Mahatma Geansai wrote: »

22 of the Munster 23 are Irish Qualified.
18 of the Munster 23 are from the academy/youth system.
21 of the Munster 23 are 30 or younger and the average age of the squad is only 26.

19 of the Leinster 23 are Irish Qualified.
15 of the Leinster 23 are from the academy/youth system.
17 of the Leinster 23 are 30 or younger and the average age of the squad is 28.

That is how both squads compare. To me, it indicates that the Leinster academy may be underperforming when you compare it to its Munster counterpart; especially so when you compare the populations of both provinces.

Tell us something we don't know. The Leinster academy has been incredibly overrated for years now.

CMOTDibbler

awec wrote: »

I had heard that the Leinster academy only takes in one player in any given position? Is that correct?

Not as far as I know. There are currently four centres in the academy which bears out what I've been saying about meeting a perceived need in the pro squad.

Mahatma Geansai

salmocab wrote: »

I know I can just jump over there but could you post them together for comparison here.
That seems a solid enough stat from an Irish POV

22 of the Munster 23 are Irish Qualified.
18 of the Munster 23 are from the academy/youth system.
21 of the Munster 23 are 30 or younger and the average age of the squad is only 26.

19 of the Leinster 23 are Irish Qualified.
15 of the Leinster 23 are from the academy/youth system.
17 of the Leinster 23 are 30 or younger and the average age of the squad is 28.

That is how both squads compare. To me, it indicates that the Leinster academy may be underperforming when you compare it to its Munster counterpart; especially so when you compare the populations of both provinces.

brokenhooker

dub_skav wrote: »

I remember watching Bundee Aki playing for the Connacht Under 18s and I said to me auld da - he will be a great player someday

you realise they rely on less NIQ backs than Leinster?

and also that aki is much better than anyone leinster has at the moment.

former total

Deleted User wrote: »

Leinster backs that have earned their first cap in the last 5 years

Ian 'Home is where the heart is' Keatley 2009
Fergus 'Ireland's latest hat trick scorer' McFadden got his first cap for Ireland in 2011.
Felix 'True Blue' Jones 2011.
Ian 'never mind got an offer from Toulouse, accepted an offer from Bordeaux!' Madigan got his first cap for ireland in 2013
Robbie 'Leinster till I die' Henshaw 2013 :pac:
James 'Life Began at Leinster' Downey 2013
'Mysterious' Dave Kearney 2013

Eh, hello?

dub_skav

brokenhooker wrote: »

They have a better backline currently when compared to Leinster.

I remember watching Bundee Aki playing for the Connacht Under 18s and I said to me auld da - he will be a great player someday

wise7

brokenhooker wrote: »

the academy has failed utterly to produce good quality backs, it's undeniable.

Relying on a rugby league convert, a formerly retired great, a journeyman fullback to fill holes that the Leinster academy have been unable to fill.

There remains a huge gap behind Sexton, no answer at scrumhalf so we have to sign some 3rd choice NZer and we had to poach Connacht's best player to fill the gap at 12. It's ringrose and nothing else sadly.

There are taleneted backs with serious potential in the Academy like Cian Kelleher, Adam Byrne and Ross Byrne. With the exception of Ringrose, Leinster do not provide young backs with opportunities to 'play up' off the bench and develop from the experience

[Deleted User]

Buer wrote: »

Motion to have James Downey struck from the list and disassociated from Leinster, please.

we need all the numbers we can get.

whatawaster

brokenhooker wrote: »

and yet he is on the bench behind a way off his peak Reddan and it's not a controversial call.

Reddan is still a very good scrum half. I think McGrath is better and on an upward trajectory whereas Reddan is on a downward trajectory. But Reddan has his experience to call upon.

There will be rotation between the two between now and the end of the season I have no doubt.

salmocab

Mahatma Geansai wrote: »

As I did on the Munster thread, here is a brief breakdown of the Leinster squad for the weekend..

19 of the Leinster 23 are Irish Qualified.
15 of the Leinster 23 are from the academy/youth system.
17 of the Leinster 23 are 30 or younger and the average age of the squad is 28.

I know I can just jump over there but could you post them together for comparison here.
That seems a solid enough stat from an Irish POV

salmocab

brokenhooker wrote: »

you'd be wrong there..

I would however like to see an exciting backline with pace, skill and attacking edge.. sadly we are stuck with what the academy has produced and what we can afford.

I agree that the back line isn't fantastic like a few years ago but why are you mentioning it now just after the team announcement? Who were you expecting to start? What changes would you make apart from at 9?

brokenhooker

whatawaster wrote: »

Luke McGrath has just turned 23.

It would have been nice for him to develop sooner, but he was unlucky to come through in a team with 2 established and experienced scrum halves, even if both of them have been on the decline.

This has been a real breakthrough season for him and an Ireland call-up shouldn't be too far away.

and yet he is on the bench behind a way off his peak Reddan and it's not a controversial call.

Mahatma Geansai

As I did on the Munster thread, here is a brief breakdown of the Leinster squad for the weekend..

19 of the Leinster 23 are Irish Qualified.
15 of the Leinster 23 are from the academy/youth system.
17 of the Leinster 23 are 30 or younger and the average age of the squad is 28.

Buer

Deleted User wrote: »

Leinster backs that have earned their first cap in the last 5 years

Ian 'Home is where the heart is' Keatley 2009
Fergus 'Ireland's latest hat trick scorer' McFadden got his first cap for Ireland in 2011.
Felix 'True Blue' Jones 2011.
Ian 'never mind got an offer from Toulouse, accepted an offer from Bordeaux!' Madigan got his first cap for ireland in 2013
Robbie 'Leinster till I die' Henshaw 2013 :pac:
James 'Life Began at Leinster' Downey 2013
'Mysterious' Dave Kearney 2013

Motion to have James Downey struck from the list and disassociated from Leinster, please.

whatawaster

brokenhooker wrote: »

McGrath, talented player who Leinster have failed to develop.

Luke McGrath has just turned 23.

It would have been nice for him to develop sooner, but he was unlucky to come through in a team with 2 established and experienced scrum halves, even if both of them have been on the decline.

This has been a real breakthrough season for him and an Ireland call-up shouldn't be too far away.

brokenhooker

Yeah_Right wrote: »

I get the impression that even if Leinster fielded a backline of the quality of the ABs from last year's RWC, brokenhooker would still find something to complain about.

you'd be wrong there..

I would however like to see an exciting backline with pace, skill and attacking edge.. sadly we are stuck with what the academy has produced and what we can afford.

awec

I had heard that the Leinster academy only takes in one player in any given position? Is that correct?

Yeah_Right

I get the impression that even if Leinster fielded a backline of the quality of the ABs from last year's RWC, brokenhooker would still find something to complain about.

brokenhooker

Deleted User wrote: »

Leinster backs that have earned their first cap in the last 5 years

Ian 'My heart belongs at home' Keatley 2009
Fergus 'Ireland's latest hat trick scorer' McFadden got his first cap for Ireland in 2011.
Felix 'True Blue' Jones 2011.
Ian 'never mind got an offer from Toulouse, accepted an offer from Bordeaux!' Madigan got his first cap for ireland in 2013
Robbie 'Leinster till I die' Henshaw 2013 :pac:
James 'Life Began at Leinster' Downey 2013
'Mysterious' Dave Kearney 2013

you are relying grasping at straws if you are listing James Downey and Ian Keatley.

Also the fact they got capped doesn't mean much, none were ever 1st choice and therefore anywhere decent at international level.

brokenhooker

CMOTDibbler wrote: »

He has a point though. For a long time I've been saying that the Leinster academy is under resourced in relation to the available pool of players. I think it was in 2013 that the intake to the academy consisted of players solely drawn from the previous year's senior cup final.

It's not feasible that the Leinster academy has the same number of players as Munster, Ulster or Connacht. It just doesn't make sense on any level. I've known of promising players who haven't made it through from the sub-academy because they've been injured for a protracted period.

That's not to say that there'll be a steady stream of top class backs coming through if they expand it, but it looks to me as if it's heavily leaning towards recruiting whatever the need du jour is in the pro ranks rather than actually nurturing and producing talent.

the academy has failed utterly to produce good quality backs, it's undeniable.

Relying on a rugby league convert, a formerly retired great, a journeyman fullback to fill holes that the Leinster academy have been unable to fill.

There remains a huge gap behind Sexton, no answer at scrumhalf so we have to sign some 3rd choice NZer and we had to poach Connacht's best player to fill the gap at 12. It's ringrose and nothing else sadly.

salmocab

I think Leinster have failed in that they are producing too many quality back rows. They are making Ulster look bad because they haven't produced one in a couple of years.
Am I doing this right?