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Do Atheists have different funerals to religious people?

pgj2015

I was baptized catholic but do not believe in god, and never go to mass, if I get married it will not be in a church, If I have kids they won't be baptized. also I don't want a priest talking at my funeral so can you bypass the whole church funeral bit most people seem to go through?

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whatdoicare

Doctors can take whatever's still good to save another person, medical science can take whatever else they want and then when they're done, burn me up ad **** me into the roses or the sea....or the bin. I'll be dead so I won't care.

I've often thought about donating my body to that artist dude who does that dead body art show: http://scribol.com/art-and-design/art/dr-hagens-body-worlds-when-dead-bodies-become-art

Asaiah

pgj2015 wrote: »

ya because all atheists are the same, why not just leave my body in the woods for the animals. I don't want students in trinity poking at my dead body.

But what you want is just a genetically and socially conditioned reaction to brain chemicals making you believe you 'feel' or 'desire' something. It's all utterly meaningless anyway, so what does it matter?

Keane2baMused

Donate my organs, cremate me and stick me on a shelf. Sounds better to me than being stuck in the earth to rot (even more).

Anyway, a funeral is not strictly a religious ceremony. It is simply a time for the person to be honoured and for their loved ones to pay their respects and get some sort of 'closure', by however means.

ThatGeekGirl

I have never been to a non-religious funeral but my parents have. A family friend died suddenly and he was non-religious so they had a ceremony at home the night before the burial - very wake like - which I'm fairly sure they made up themselves (didn't bring someone in I mean) and then on the day I think they went to the crematorium, had a short send off there followed by a big knees up cos the guy was a social guy and would have wanted a party. A few weeks later my folks got a card off his family which was a picture of him holding up a pint saying cheers and then a thank you/remembrance message inside. I thought the whole thing was very nicely done. My mam said it was one of the nicest send offs she has been to.

Zen65

Asaiah wrote: »

If you're an atheist surely you don't care what happens to your macro-randomly generated mass of matter when your neurotransmitters stop firing.

I'm an atheist, and my adult children are atheist. If one of them were to die while walking in the woods I would not be content to walk away and leave their bodies there. What makes you think atheists have no concerns about such things?

BTW, if you leave your body to science, they may simply use it to help with forensic pathology training by leaving it in the woods for some weeks to observe how it decays. Not all 'science' is conducted in nice labs.

ThatGeekGirl

Asaiah wrote: »

But what you want is just a genetically and socially conditioned reaction to brain chemicals making you believe you 'feel' or 'desire' something. It's all utterly meaningless anyway, so what does it matter?

With that attitude why do you even bother living at all?? that makes me sad to read

wokingvoter

pgj2015 wrote: »

sounds good, most funerals i have been to spend about 2 hours talking about religion and 1 minute talking about the deceased, i prefer hearing stories about the deceased not a made up god.

I don't think you've actually been to any religious funerals at all because that's not what happens
I think that's what you IMAGINE happens at religious funerals
I think your probably a bit scared of stuff generally

pgj2015

wokingvoter wrote: »

I don't think you've actually been to any religious funerals at all because that's not what happens
I think that's what you IMAGINE happens at religious funerals
I think your probably a bit scared of stuff generally

any? I have been to many funerals, they may talk about the deceased but its always attached to the fact your faith will help you through it, I have heard priests talk about people who took their own lives in a disrespectful way at their funerals as well, made me want to walk out I was so disgusted with the priests.

Mark Tapley

ThatGeekGirl wrote: »

With that attitude why do you even bother living at all?? that makes me sad to read

I think you can believe mankind is of no real consequence or importance and still appreciate the time we have on the planet.

Asaiah

ThatGeekGirl wrote: »

With that attitude why do you even bother living at all?? that makes me sad to read

I don't, sorry for making you sad for a moment! I have heard many of my atheist friends speak like this while at the same time rubbishing my Christian beliefs. I just wanted to see if an Atheists here thought like this.

To be honest, personally I don't believe anyone is truly an atheist (Shock horror) just in absolute rejection/denial of the truth, that there is a spirit. Theologically Christians believe all men are created beings in the image of God, and therefore have the Lord dwelling within their hearts.

I also believe that the world is a cold place and will turn a persons heart to stone so to speak, and that the spirit can become 'dead' as a result of this. As children we are spiritually alive as our hearts have not been hardened by the world and it's woes. So the world can make atheists of us all if we let it. It's sad to see so many people who chose spiritual death by following the atheist mindset.

As a Christian I want whatever will help my family see me off best. Whatever eases their grieving.

Zen65

Mark Tapley wrote: »

I think you can believe mankind is of no real consequence or importance and still appreciate the time we have on the planet.

+1

You can in fact believe that lives are important and of consequence, even though there's no magic man in the sky looking down on you and waiting for you to die so you can be with him.

Mark Tapley

I have been to religious and humanist funerals and it alway seems like the celebrant doesn't really know the deceased and both equally had an excess of platitudes. In theory I would object to this but I will be beyond caring. Funerals are for those left behind and whatever gives them comfort is alright with me.

wokingvoter

murpho999 wrote: »

Can't stand religious funeral stuff.
Especially things like 'Month's Mind' or anniversary masses. Just normal masses that have the equivalent of a request list read out at the end, for the usual fee of course. I don't get how people get comfort out of it or find it important.
Just seems like social conditioning caused by religion makes it happen.

I'm sure you know that it's not obligatory for you to attend any religious ceremonies at all
It looks as if you haven't been to too many "months minds" if you don't mind me saying
A family in the town where I am are getting ready for their 5 year olds months mind
The idea that her dead child is safe and healthy and happy in heaven has kept the child's mother going over these last few weeks
The months mind will further reinforce that comforting feeling
She'll be surrounded again by the whole parish all there to support her
Wether you like it or not religious ceremonies surrounding death and bereavement are a comfort to millions of people all over the world every day.
You can pretend to yourself that it's , what did you say, social conditioning? And of course your entitled to your opinion about the subject
But faith in God is s very real thing for many millions

Keane2baMused

Asaiah wrote: »

To be honest, personally I don't believe anyone is truly an atheist (Shock horror) just in absolute rejection/denial of the truth, that there is a spirit..

Good to know that's a personal belief rather than what you 'know' to be true.

Asaiah

Zen65 wrote: »

+1

You can in fact believe that lives are important and of consequence, even though there's no magic man in the sky looking down on you and waiting for you to die so you can be with him.

I certainly don't believe in magic or in a man in the sky.

Zen65

Asaiah wrote: »

To be honest, personally I don't believe anyone is truly an atheist (Shock horror) just in absolute rejection/denial of the truth, that there is a spirit.

So, following that logic, do you believe that there are no Jews, only people who are in absolute rejection/denial of your truth?

Surely, by definition somebody who rejects your truth (about spirits) is an atheist, truly? Sometimes people are truly exactly what is written in the tin.

wokingvoter

pgj2015 wrote: »

any? I have been to many funerals, they may talk about the deceased but its always attached to the fact your faith will help you through it, I have heard priests talk about people who took their own lives in a disrespectful way at their funerals as well, made me want to walk out I was so disgusted with the priests.

Can you give me an example of how , in your opinion, a priest was disrespectful of a person who took their own life?
Also if a bereaved family choose to have a religious funeral in a religious building led by a religious person, and you choose to attend, you can't be surprised when the mourners are assured that their faith in God will help them
Honestly. What do you expect the priest to say, taking into account that the bereaved family have requested that he speak?

Mark Tapley

Asaiah wrote: »

I don't, sorry for making you sad for a moment! I have heard many of my atheist friends speak like this while at the same time rubbishing my Christian beliefs. I just wanted to see if an Atheists here thought like this.

To be honest, personally I don't believe anyone is truly an atheist (Shock horror) just in absolute rejection/denial of the truth, that there is a spirit. Theologically Christians believe all men are created beings in the image of God, and therefore have the Lord dwelling within their hearts.

I also believe that the world is a cold place and will turn a persons heart to stone so to speak, and that the spirit can become 'dead' as a result of this. As children we are spiritually alive as our hearts have not been hardened by the world and it's woes. So the world can make atheists of us all if we let it. It's sad to see so many people who chose spiritual death by following the atheist mindset.

As a Christian I want whatever will help my family see me off best. Whatever eases their grieving.

You don't believe I exist. There's a brain twister. I am at a loss to understand why anybody would believe in your God . There are more feasible ideas in the conspiracy forum.

ThatGeekGirl

Mark Tapley wrote: »

I think you can believe mankind is of no real consequence or importance and still appreciate the time we have on the planet.

I like your wording on this, I guess I just thought it was a sad thought that nothing matters at all. My thoughts would be along that lines that even if you are a strict athiest (have no beliefs in anything at all, as opposed to simply being non-religious) you could find some reasoning or quality to your existence, even if simply another living being in the biosphere (is that the right term?) of life on our planet.

Asaiah wrote: »

I don't, sorry for making you sad for a moment! I have heard many of my atheist friends speak like this while at the same time rubbishing my Christian beliefs. I just wanted to see if an Atheists here thought like this.

To be honest, personally I don't believe anyone is truly an atheist (Shock horror) just in absolute rejection/denial of the truth, that there is a spirit. Theologically Christians believe all men are created beings in the image of God, and therefore have the Lord dwelling within their hearts.

I also believe that the world is a cold place and will turn a persons heart to stone so to speak, and that the spirit can become 'dead' as a result of this. As children we are spiritually alive as our hearts have not been hardened by the world and it's woes. So the world can make atheists of us all if we let it. It's sad to see so many people who chose spiritual death by following the atheist mindset.

As a Christian I want whatever will help my family see me off best. Whatever eases their grieving.

Interesting thoughts on this

I don't know what I can catagorise myself as I fall somewhere between athiest, humanist and agnostic but I was brought up catholic until I was 18.

Zen65 wrote: »

+1

You can in fact believe that lives are important and of consequence, even though there's no magic man in the sky looking down on you and waiting for you to die so you can be with him.

This is what I would think - that you can find some meaning somewhere even just of your own ideals

Zen65

Asaiah wrote: »

I certainly don't believe in magic or in a man in the sky.

If you're a Christian then you do believe in magic (albeit that you may consider that man-in-the-sky is not an appropriate description of your god).

Magic is simply the ability of a person or entity to do something that cannot be explained by the known laws of the universe. If you can actually transform water into wine (without the use of grapes, and considerable fermentation time) then that's magic, by any understanding of the word.

I know religious people can be sensitive about the use of the word magic because it could be interpreted as showmanship, fakery, or trickery, but it has simpler meanings too. If you can feed 5,000 people with 5 loaves and 2 fishes, then that's magic. If you can rise up after being dead for 3 days, that's magic.

Asaiah

Zen65 wrote: »

So, following that logic, do you believe that there are no Jews, only people who are in absolute rejection/denial of your truth?

Surely, by definition somebody who rejects your truth (about spirits) is an atheist, truly? Sometimes people are truly exactly what is written in the tin.

Are you seriously asking a Christian if he thinks that Jews don't exist?

pgj2015

wokingvoter wrote: »

Can you give me an example of how , in your opinion, a priest was disrespectful of a person who took their own life?
Also if a bereaved family choose to have a religious funeral in a religious building led by a religious person, and you choose to attend, you can't be surprised when the mourners are assured that their faith in God will help them
Honestly. What do you expect the priest to say, taking into account that the bereaved family have requested that he speak?

the priest was being really negative about one of my friends life, before he took his life i.e he was suffering from depression. the priest was more or less ridiculing why anyone would do likewise.

on your point about the priest talking about faith helping you through, i have no problem with them talking about it at other peoples funeral but I don't want it for me.

Zen65

Asaiah wrote: »

Are you seriously asking a Christian if he thinks that Jews don't exist?

Only because he thinks atheists don't exist. I'm trying to measure how wide the blindspot is.

Asaiah

Mark Tapley wrote: »

You don't believe I exist. There's a brain twister. I am at a loss to understand why anybody would believe in your God . There are more feasible ideas in the conspiracy forum.

Clearly you exist. I think my entire message has been lost on you. I believe that atheists are people whose hearts are closed to God, but that God exists, they are merely so closed that they cannot entertain the thought. Is it so hard to understand that a Christian could believe this?

You may not agree and that's fine, I totally respect your belief.

legocrazy505

Asaiah wrote: »

Mark Tapley wrote: »

You don't believe I exist. There's a brain twister. I am at a loss to understand why anybody would believe in your God . There are more feasible ideas in the conspiracy forum.

Clearly you exist. I think my entire message has been lost on you. I believe that atheists are people whose hearts are closed to God, but that God exists, they are merely so closed that they cannot entertain the thought. Is it so hard to understand that a Christian could believe this?

You may not agree and that's fine, I totally respect your belief.

Ken Ham is that you?

Anyway now that I've found Ken Ham, I want to add my two cents. I'm 18 so I haven't quite figured out if I want to be an organ donor or donate my body. If I did though ultimately as an atheist I'd want something similar to what Neil deGrasse Tyson suggests:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ih7SJt_-Q1o

Asaiah

Zen65 wrote: »

If you're a Christian then you do believe in magic (albeit that you may consider that man-in-the-sky is not an appropriate description of your god).

Magic is simply the ability of a person or entity to do something that cannot be explained by the known laws of the universe. If you can actually transform water into wine (without the use of grapes, and considerable fermentation time) then that's magic, by any understanding of the word.

I know religious people can be sensitive about the use of the word magic because it could be interpreted as showmanship, fakery, or trickery, but it has simpler meanings too. If you can feed 5,000 people with 5 loaves and 2 fishes, then that's magic. If you can rise up after being dead for 3 days, that's magic.

On the contrary I believe that God set these very laws of the universe in place. In fact these very laws are the strongest evidence for a creator. If you want to believe that an ordered universe magically sprung out of nothing then be my guest. I won't ridicule you (Although apparently you're fond of ridiculing others ).

Shall we talk about funerals?

Zen65

Asaiah wrote: »

I believe that atheists are people whose hearts are closed to God, but that God exists, they are merely so closed that they cannot entertain the thought. Is it so hard to understand that a Christian could believe this?

Well, that's a much clearer explanation of what you meant than what you actually said, so I think that's cleared up.

Of course, atheists have a similar belief about christians. We believe that god does not exist, but that christians cannot see this because their minds are too closed to see beyond what their parents told them. It's no coincidence that ninety-something-percent of religious people have the same beliefs as their parents.

In the main, atheists do respect religious people, but we do not respect their beliefs because they demand that logical thought be suspended. I think all atheists would agree that we should all be free to believe whatever we want about the existence or non-existence of gods.

wokingvoter

pgj2015 wrote: »

the priest was being really negative about one of my friends life, before he took his life i.e he was suffering from depression. the priest was more or less ridiculing why anyone would do likewise.

on your point about the priest talking about faith helping you through, i have no problem with them talking about it at other peoples funeral but I don't want it for me.

I'm not clear about the ridiculing bit.
Are you saying that a priest in his homily on the alter during the funeral mass RIDICULED the deceased?!?!? In front of the mourners?!?! What the hell did he say? Were the family distressed at this?
If you die and your family seek the comfort (for themselves)of a religious funeral for you would you really deny them that comfort by forbidding it ? After all, you will be dead

Turtle_

I've had to plan an atheist funeral. We had a humanist MC who basically linked all the different parts, and was really good for ideas and suggestions about things to put in the funeral.

People read poetry and explained how it linked to the deceased, people from all aspects of their life talked about how they came to know each other and shared memories of times spent together, shared what they would miss now that they were gone. Music was played and we had lots of photos of the person down through the years on show. There was also an opportunity for anyone who wanted to to stand up and say a few words.

It was so personal. People shared in our collective grief and took comfort from the stories everyone told. We all got to know them a bit better.

I've been to a lot of religious funerals, too. Many have been very personal, but many have also been quite impersonal and focused on dogma and scripture. Some of it is also left at the mercy of the priest and how much tailoring he permits...

So yes, atheists have funerals and they can be great.

pgj2015

wokingvoter wrote: »

I'm not clear about the ridiculing bit.
Are you saying that a priest in his homily on the alter during the funeral mass RIDICULED the deceased?!?!? In front of the mourners?!?! What the hell did he say? Were the family distressed at this?
If you die and your family seek the comfort (for themselves)of a religious funeral for you would you really deny them that comfort by forbidding it ? After all, you will be dead

I don't want to talk about my deceased friend anymore if you don't mind, you probably had to be there really but it was like the priest was shaming him for taking his life, there wasn't much compassion for what he went through before he died.

my family have their faith but they would want me to have whatever funeral I wanted, they wouldn't care if I have an atheist send off, and even if they did care, its not up to them.