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When aren't you a Catholic?

kneemos

For the purposes of the Census are you still a Catholic even if you don't practice or believe in it?
There's a definite vagueness regarding that particular question I'd have thought.

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Zen65

RDM_83 again wrote: »

If you've been baptised and you think your Catholic both you and the Church (and if you fill in the census the government) think your Catholic, you might be a really sh-t Catholic but it doesn't change anything.

So, if you were adopted by an African American family and believe you're black, is it correct to say you're black, even if you're clearly not?

Many people think of themselves as catholic despite not agreeing with vast tranches of the catholic doctrine. These people usually have just not thought about what it means to describe themselves as catholic, or have not considered the possibility that their beliefs are explicitly contrary to catholic beliefs. They may just like the idea of 'belonging' to an association of people that they've always associated themselves with.

The current campaign by humanists and others is simply calling on people to reflect on what it is they truly believe, and to declare it.

wnolan1992

_Xavi_ wrote: »

There should be the question "Do you believe in any Gods?"

This question should be after the religion one.

If you've ticked a religion in the first question, then select "No" to this question, your form should automatically burst into flames because you can't be trusted. :P

Elijah Bitter Hemp wrote: »

The census form is supposed to be completed by the head of the household, who must also sign a declaration that he/she has supplied correct information. Individual children in the house are not permitted to complete portions of the form.

How can the head of the household provide accurate information if they don't consult their children on the answers they're providing?

Zen65

When you no longer believe in any one of the following:

The eucharist is the physical body of Christ
Jesus Christ was the son incarnate of the one true God, and was also God
The pope cannot be wrong on matters of religious doctrine (even though popes may disagree)
The pope is God's representative on earth
Mary was the only person born without original sin. She became pregnant with Jesus while a virgin.

In fact if you do not believe in an interventionist god you are an atheist, even if you believe in the possibility of a god or gods, or you are a 'spiritual' person. A deist believes in a god, but does not believe that god intervenes in life here on earth in any way. A deist can therefore be atheist.

A great many people that I've met who call themselves catholic actually do not believe that the god they believe in has an interest in life on earth, and as such they are more correctly termed atheist, although they do not associate themselves with such a label.

RDM_83 again

_Xavi_ wrote: »

There should be the question "Do you believe in any Gods?"

By the Old Gods and the New!

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

wnolan1992 wrote: »

13/14 y/o, yes, with supervision.

8 y/o, probably not, but I'd involve them in the process (as opposed to just filling everything out and not even telling them a census was going on).

I was 13/14 in '06, filled out Census myself specifically so I could tick "No Religion" (I was one of those annoying atheists in those days *shudder*)

The census form is supposed to be completed by the head of the household, who must also sign a declaration that he/she has supplied correct information. Individual children in the house are not permitted to complete portions of the form.

_Xavi_

There should be the question "Do you believe in any Gods?"

RDM_83 again

One eyed Jack wrote: »

There's nobody else can answer that question for you in fairness. If you identify yourself as Catholic, who is anyone else to say you are or you aren't?

Tried to post about this earlier but lost, anyway this topic has come up a few times before, and its weird how progressive people who normally all for people being able to self identify as whatever they want take a completely different view when it comes to Catholicism.

If you've been baptised and you think your Catholic both you and the Church (and if you fill in the census the government) think your Catholic, you might be a really sh-t Catholic but it doesn't change anything.

One eyed Jack

kneemos wrote: »

For the purposes of the Census are you still a Catholic even if you don't practice or believe in it?
There's a definite vagueness regarding that particular question I'd have thought.

There's nobody else can answer that question for you in fairness. If you identify yourself as Catholic, who is anyone else to say you are or you aren't?

iDave

beach_walker wrote: »

Err ok, seems like you've got a bit of a chip there! Who's said anything of the sort?

Freshpopcorn

beach_walker

iDave wrote: »

Sorry in advance if that comes across as if I'm as bad as pushy religious types.

Err ok, seems like you've got a bit of a chip there! Who's said anything of the sort?

P_1

Jayop wrote: »

What age were you in 2006?

Should I allow a 13/14 y/o to do it? What about an 8 y/o?

19, Can't recall if I filled in 2001 or indeed if there was a census taken that year. If there was it is likely that I filled in my own entry that year too.

IMO once you are capable of writing you should fill in your own return (albeit supervised in the case of younger children).

Manach

Semper Fidelis.

Speedwell

Jayop wrote: »

How would you saying what you and you alone come across as pushy?

This comic sprung to mind when I read iDave's post: http://the-militant-atheist.org/images/atheism1.jpg

Jayop

iDave wrote: »

Will tick No Religion as it best describes me and my beliefs or lack of. It's an honest answer to a question asked by the state. Sorry in advance if that comes across as if I'm as bad as pushy religious types.

How would you saying what you and you alone come across as pushy?

iDave

Will tick No Religion as it best describes me and my beliefs or lack of. It's an honest answer to a question asked by the state. Sorry in advance if that comes across as if I'm as bad as pushy religious types.

wnolan1992

Jayop wrote: »

What age were you in 2006?

Should I allow a 13/14 y/o to do it? What about an 8 y/o?

13/14 y/o, yes, with supervision.

8 y/o, probably not, but I'd involve them in the process (as opposed to just filling everything out and not even telling them a census was going on).

I was 13/14 in '06, filled out Census myself specifically so I could tick "No Religion" (I was one of those annoying atheists in those days *shudder*)

Jayop

Speedwell wrote: »

You could ask them, if you thought you'd get a non-evasive, truthful answer. I know plenty of people who kept their disbelief in God to themselves when they were that age. I was one of them. Unbeknownst to me, my own father, a church elder, was an agnostic (he described himself as a "Spinozan", lol), and with the exception of my mother, a devout Christian, her entire family was secular Jewish. I just thought I was weird and I would never have spoken about it to my parents.

Well the young buck is doing his communion in May so I might choose not to rock that boat at this particular time. The older one I could ask.

Speedwell

Jayop wrote: »

What age were you in 2006?

Should I allow a 13/14 y/o to do it? What about an 8 y/o?

You could ask them, if you thought you'd get a non-evasive, truthful answer. I know plenty of people who kept their disbelief in God to themselves when they were that age. I was one of them. Unbeknownst to me, my own father, a church elder, was an agnostic (he described himself as a "Spinozan", lol), and with the exception of my mother, a devout Christian, her entire family was secular Jewish. I just thought I was weird and I would never have spoken about it to my parents.

Jayop

P_1 wrote: »

This is the problem. I've filled in my entry on every Census since 2006 and strongly urge everyone else to do the same. It's a count of the population, fill in your own particulars.

What age were you in 2006?

Should I allow a 13/14 y/o to do it? What about an 8 y/o?

[Deleted User]

I'll be putting down no religion anyway. Never believed in any religion. I was baptised when I was 7 so I could get into a primary school here, want to put an end to that sort of thing!

P_1

PlainP wrote: »

It becomes an issue when you have mammy and daddy filling in the form for the household.

Mammy and daddy may still be practicing and they may still believe that dearest son/daughter is still practicing and therefore fill in the form that all in the household are catholic.

I think this is where the fallacy arises and this may be the biggest hurdle in getting the numbers to match up.

This is the problem. I've filled in my entry on every Census since 2006 and strongly urge everyone else to do the same. It's a count of the population, fill in your own particulars.

Speedwell

freshpopcorn, please go pester a thread where atheists and Christians are at each other's throats. This is not that place.

freshpopcorn

I think the number of people who'd say they've no religion in the census would increase if atheists were a less vocal in my experience they've a tendency to come across just as bad as a person trying to push religion in somebodies face.

Skylinehead

DanielODonnell wrote: »

You are only a Catholic if you attend mass, you are only a Christian if you attend service and live a Christian life.
not all Catholics are real Christians

atheists are just brainwashed people who cannot see the light

Mod: Don't post in this thread again.

Jayop

Hercule Poirot wrote: »

Correct me if I'm wrong, and I may regret asking this, but does being a Catholic not make you a Christian by default?

You just had to do it didn't you.... :rolleyes:

Speedwell

Hercule Poirot wrote: »

Correct me if I'm wrong, and I may regret asking this, but does being a Catholic not make you a Christian by default?

The poster who ironically referenced Ian Paisley above meant to point out that some of the less attractive sorts of Protestant fundamentalists don't believe that to be the case.

Having had a quick read through the threads started by your friend and mine Brother O'Donnell, I imagine he won't find the comparison terribly flattering.

Hercule Poirot

DanielODonnell wrote: »

You are only a Catholic if you attend mass, you are only a Christian if you attend service and live a Christian life.
not all Catholics are real Christians

atheists are just brainwashed people who cannot see the light

Correct me if I'm wrong, and I may regret asking this, but does being a Catholic not make you a Christian by default?

Ush1

I presume you must follow all the tenants and teachings of the Roman Catholic bible.

PopePalpatine

I swear I'm being reminded of some ex-Boardsie troll right now.

Speedwell

Well, Christians and atheists and agnostics all getting along and making sense, we can't have that, can we. We have to have Preacher O'Donnell sitting in the punch bowl, eh.