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Will you wear an Easter Lily?

[Deleted User]

It's that time of the year again. Easter Week and the 100 year anniversary of the 1916 Rising is forthcoming, will you be wearing an Easter Lily to honour the men who fought and died for the Irish Republic? If so/not then why/why not?

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Redbishop

davycc wrote: »

ill wear one same as every easter in living memory

I wont, never have. But that's me, I m not a symbols man.
Absolutely no problem with anyone who does though either.
If that's your thing go for it.

seamus

Deleted User wrote: »

Strange how people who ply this line consistently overlook the thousands of British people who collaborated with the Nazis, but there's that "the nice British Empire fought WW II to free the Jews" understanding of history again.

Were there are any recognised political groups or analogues to the IRA in Britain, engaged in this? Or was it mostly small groups of nutjobs?

Brindor

I only wear Shamrocks honestly

Fratton Fred

Junkyard Tom wrote: »

I must say Fuaranach that you consistently knock the sliotar out of the stadium when it comes to exposing double standards, propaganda, and outright lies. Fair play to you Sir.

No he doesn't, he spouts a load of hyperbolic ****e, but it's the sort of stuff you enjoy.

What you don't realise though, is that most people read it and it actually puts them off wearing a lilly, because they don't want to be associated with people like that.

Fratton Fred

seamus wrote: »

Were there are any recognised political groups or analogues to the IRA in Britain, engaged in this? Or was it mostly small groups of nutjobs?

Only small groups of nutters.

Chips Lovell

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VstDOv0C1do

[Deleted User]

seamus wrote: »

Were there are any recognised political groups or analogues to the IRA in Britain, engaged in this? Or was it mostly small groups of nutjobs?

Yes, there were far more significant groups supporting the Nazis. At the time these right-wing British groups were very respectable, seen by many (including the business classes and Christians) as brave people standing up against the godless communists and supporting fascism. In post-WW II Britain they're striped of their context, a deep embarrassment and termed "nutters".

The [Royal] British Legion, which ironically organises British poppy glorifications today, raised no fewer than 17,000 British people to help Hitler "police" his occupation of the Sudetenland as late as 1938. Here's a little post I wrote earlier, with the relevant historical sources. Additionally, here's some pictures of the RBL meeting Hitler and senior Nazis to offer their support in his occupation of the Sudetenland.

How British Legion flirted with Hitler

There were also other right-wing organisations (and British aristocrats), which were as marginal as the IRA were here (mentioned in my post above), which supported Hitler.

Fratton Fred

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Yes, there were far more significant groups supporting the Nazis. At the time these right-wing British groups were very respectable, seen by many (including the business classes and Christians) as brave people standing up against the godless communists and supporting fascism. In post-WW II Britain they're striped of their context, a deep embarrassment and termed "nutters".

The [Royal] British Legion, which ironically organises British poppy glorifications today, raised no fewer than 17,000 British people to help Hitler "police" his occupation of the Sudetenland as late as 1938. Here's a little post I wrote earlier, with the relevant historical sources. Additionally, here's some pictures of the RBL meeting Hitler and senior Nazis to offer their support in his occupation of the Sudetenland.

How British Legion flirted with Hitler

There were also other right-wing organisations (and British aristocrats), which were as marginal as the IRA were here (mentioned in my post above), which supported Hitler.

Yep, hyperbolic ****e.

[Deleted User]

Fratton Fred wrote: »

Only small groups of nutters.

You know that's not true, Fred. There's no point in continuing to deny that the widespread view in Britain was that the Nazis were seen as the good guys, or at least as the lesser of two evils, compared to the communists before WW II.

And isn't it most curious how British groups comparable* with the IRA were merely "small group of nutters" but the three IRA members (Seán Russell, Francis Stuart and the hero of the socialist side in the Spanish Civil War, Frank Ryan) who attempted to make an alliance with Nazi Germany are set up by British nationalists to condemn the entire cause of Irish freedom. Double standard, eh?

* By "comparable" I mean these British organisations were about 20 times larger than the three IRA members who attempted to make links with Nazi Germany. If we take the most mild estimate of how many British people were in John Amery's Free British Corps as 54 people, that's 18 times more British "nutters" supporting Nazi Germany than the IRA had supporting Nazi Germany during WW II.

Isn't it most curious how the actions of British nationalists before and during WW II vis–à–vis supporting Nazi Germany are ignored by British nationalists today, who brazenly try to deflect attention on to the far, far less collaboration made by the three IRA men.

[Deleted User]

Fratton Fred wrote: »

Yep, hyperbolic ****e.

Yet, you're not denying that there was far more support for Nazi Germany in Britain in the 1930s than there was in Ireland at the same time (considering the sources admitting it include right-wing British newspapers like the Telegraph and Daily Mail, it's a bit hard).

Indeed, as shown above with John Amery's Free British Corps, even during WW II there were more British people than Irish people actively supporting Nazi Germany.

[Deleted User]

Fratton Fred wrote: »

No he doesn't, he spouts a load of hyperbolic ****e, but it's the sort of stuff you enjoy.

What you don't realise though, is that most people read it and it actually puts them off wearing a lilly, because they don't want to be associated with people like that.

This sounds like a compliment, given your record of justifying the British Empire at every opportunity and defending poppy fascism. Mentioning all those shhhh British alliances with Nazi Germany always brings the worst out of the most pitiful, lamentable apologists for British rule in Ireland.

Fratton Fred

Deleted User wrote: »

This sounds like a compliment, given your record of justifying the British Empire at every opportunity and defending poppy fascism. Mentioning all those shhhh British alliances with Nazi Germany always brings the worst out of the most pitiful, lamentable apologists for British rule in Ireland.

more hyperbole.

anyone who disagrees with you is a colonial apologist

Do you ever read your posts back to yourself and cringe?

Fratton Fred

Deleted User wrote: »

Indeed, as shown above with John Amery's Free British Corps, even during WW II there were more British people than Irish people actively supporting Nazi Germany.

3.5 million fighting Nazi Germany, 54 people supporting Nazi Germany.

yep that's widespread support alright:D

now then, just from an NGA perspective, I presume they have memorials to Sean Russell, Frank Ryan, Seamus O'Donovan and Stephen Hayes, but what about all the other nazi collaborators and those that hid Gortz during his little jolly over here?

Nice funeral, by the way.

http://comeheretome.com/2012/03/29/swastikas-in-deansgrange-and-the-farrell-sisters-of-glenageary/

Dyr

I might wear two lillies. Dual Wielding Republicanism

Did'nt the tories and the royals have a bit of a yen for uncle adolph at one point?

[Deleted User]

Deleted User wrote: »

You know that's not true, Fred. There's no point in continuing to deny that the widespread view in Britain was that the Nazis were seen as the good guys, or at least as the lesser of two evils, compared to the communists before WW II.

*If we take the most mil estimdate of how many British people were in John Amery's Free British Corps as 54 people, that's 18 times more British "nutters" supporting Nazi Germany than the IRA had supporting Nazi Germany during WW II.

Fratton Fred wrote: »

3.5 million fighting Nazi Germany, 54 people supporting Nazi Germany.

yep that's widespread support alright:D

Isn't it marvellous how you'll do anything, especially intentionally mix up what somebody writes in order to make up strawmen, to deny the reality of widespread support for Nazi Germany before WW II and also deny that there was far more active support for Nazi Germany during WW II than existed from the three IRA members you incessantly bleat on about.

I've made a lucid distinction. That you cannot engage with it and are keen to create distractions betrays the same old "my tribe, right or wrong" which marks so many of your posts here.

Once more, prior to WWII there was widespread support for Nazi Germany in Britain. during WW II, there were far more people in Britain, than people in Ireland, supporting the Nazis. Your inability to honestly accept this is instructive.

Enemy within: the network of Britons who spied for Hitler during the Second World War (some lovely photos!)

Letting the side down: British traitors during World War II

The face of Hitler's British SS

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

What have Nazis to do with Easter lilies?

Chips Lovell

I'm not sure. I think it's along the lines of if you hate the IRA, you must love the Brits and because some Brits were keen on the Nazis, you're a hypocrite if you draw attention to the IRA's Nazi links. Or something like that.

[Deleted User]

Beckett Gorgeous Lifeboat wrote: »

What have Nazis to do with Easter lilies?

This poster who brought up the issue of "Nazi collaboration", and the poster who thanked him/her, might be able to answer that.

Fratton Fred

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Isn't it marvellous how you'll do anything, especially intentionally mix up what somebody writes in order to make up strawmen

Lol, says the man that thinks policing a referendum is Nazi collaboration.

Nodin

Fratton Fred wrote: »

Yep, hyperbolic ****e.

Bit much Fred, considering the propensity of some to shout "Sean Russell" when it suits them.

Jimoslimos

doolox wrote: »

I do not subscribe to any war like commemoration and I am of the belief that we as a nation would have been better off with home rule as achieved in 1914 but delayed by the 14-18 war.

To paraphrase, democracy delayed is democracy denied.

doolox wrote: »

She was so full of hatred and bitterness for the "enemy" when the truth is that 1916 was a tragedy and all the dead deserve equal and non judgmental remembrance at this distant remove from a historical event.

Would that those who so vehemently defend the poppy think the same?

I won't be wearing a lily, for a number of reasons. I don't particularly care for wearing symbols to "prove" my loyalty. National Graves Association, ok...could think of better ways to spend or donate my money.

But yeah I'm glad 1916 happened and am proud of their actions. Britain (and some here, incl Redmond) sent men to be slaughtered by the thousands since they felt obliged into entering a stupid and pointless war because an obscure European royal was killed. A handful of brave men and women stood up to that sort of idiocy 100 years ago.

sunshine and showers

I'm surprised they didn't bring out some sort of official commemorative badge or pin or something.

I would wear something, but not the Easter Lily. That symbol was sadly lost a long time ago to people and agendas I don't want to be associated with.

Madd Finn

Deleted User wrote: »

Strange how people who ply this line consistently overlook the thousands of British people who collaborated with the Nazis, but there's that "the nice British Empire fought WW II to free the Jews" understanding of history again.

I commend you sir. You are a fearless opponent of the Straw Men of your own paranoid imagination.

The consensus British view of its activities in WWII (and WWI) is every bit as hypocritical as other countries' "foundation myths". But it doesn't change the fact that Sean Russell was a Nazi collaborator.

Does it?

Samaris

Well, that escalated.

Madd Finn

Deleted User wrote: »

This poster who brought up the issue of "Nazi collaboration", and the poster who thanked him/her, might be able to answer that.

Happy to.

Somebody brought up Easter Lillies.
Somebody asked where does the money raised from their sale go?
Somebody said to The National Graves Association.
Somebody asked "Who they"?
Somebody said they are the people who erect and maintain memorials to those who fought for a particular view of Irish freedom.
I pointed out that one of the people (and there were others) who is "memorialised" by the NGA was Sean Russell, IRA CoS who was a grubby Nazi collaborator.
Incontrovertibly.

See the chain now?

Junkyard Tom

Fratton Fred wrote: »

No he doesn't, he spouts a load of hyperbolic ****e,

Na he's making your posts look quite foolish, even though you usually have little problem doing that all by yourself

What you don't realise though, is that most people read it and it actually puts them off wearing a lilly, because they don't want to be associated with people like that.

There's that thing you do. An Englishman thinking he speaks for Irish people on an Irish issue. The imperial mindset is hard to shake off.

Fratton Fred wrote: »

Yep, hyperbolic ****e.

Excellent rebuttal.

Madd Finn wrote: »

I commend you sir. You are a fearless opponent of the Straw Men

You don't understand what a 'straw man' is.

Junkyard Tom

Madd Finn wrote: »

Sean Russell - Nazi collaborator.

A collaborator is someone who works for an enemy and usually an enemy who occupies his own country. Sean Russell was not French or Polish. Ireland was not occupied by the Germans. Ireland was not at war with Germany. The term collaborator is wrong.

Is that clear enough for you?

marienbad

No I won't .

Iwasfrozen

Sean Russell was a citizen of a neutral state who collaborated with axis powers during WWII.

How anyone could defend the maintenance of his grave through the Easter lily fund is beyond me

chair28

Why do so many Irish hate being Irish?
Irish people are nearly ashamed of the past.
They think its nearly cool to be anti irish for some reason... kinda weird