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Child Item

Why do both parents have to work nowadays?

armabelle

I don't understand why it is so common that both parents work nowadays? This was not the case before. Surely humankind should be advancing and we should be needing to work less to enjoy the same lifestyle? I am no economist but can't help feeling like something is wrong with the setup of today.

Can anybody who know a bit more about this share the answer please?

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ezra_pound

Wanderer78 wrote: »

There's actually a shift in tax globally from the wealthy onto the labour force. This has been going on for a couple of decades now with drastic effects.

What are you talking about? You're responding to a post about tax individualisation, a policy which transfers money from one worker families to two worker families. Not from rich to poor.

Wanderer78

ezra_pound wrote:

What are you talking about? You're responding to a post about tax individualisation, a policy which transfers money from one worker families to two worker families. Not from rich to poor.

Fair enough!

Hijpo

For the record we both work and have sky and Internet because 100 euro a month is easier to come by than 50+ anytime we want to go out to be entertained be it the cinema, a meal, night away etc etc

guess who and trivial pursuit just don't have that edge anymore.

pwurple

On the expense of living in the first world...

Your middle of the road family seems to have vehicles worth at least 30k sitting in the driveway. And if they go for older ones, thousands in maintenance & tax.

Children now require being supported until they are finished 3rd level education, plus a wedding and a house deposit after that.

Medical care for the elderly is advanced, and financially crippling.

Foreign holidays? Expected.

Thousand euro smartphones, 3 or more per family, plus associated plans.

We do our best to reduce all of those, and my children will hopefully be working outside school in some form as soon as it's safe and they are able. Even if it's just doing some organising at a car boot sale on the weekends, or participating in bake-sales.

I find some of the threads on this subreddit interesting reading. A lot of personal stories about reducing debt, reducing outgoings, and financial investments and planning.
https://www.reddit.com/r/financialindependence

pwurple

Hijpo wrote: »

For the record we both work and have sky and Internet because 100 euro a month is easier to come by than 50+ anytime we want to go out to be entertained be it the cinema, a meal, night away etc etc

guess who and trivial pursuit just don't have that edge anymore.

Does netflix and freeview also not have that edge?

Hijpo

pwurple wrote: »

Does netflix and freeview also not have that edge?

Netflix isn't free and freeview is woeful.

Harika

Hijpo wrote: »

Netflix isn't free and freeview is woeful.

One nuance that changed from the 80s, where you basically had 1.5 TV channels and you simply watched what was on and that costs you TV license, nowadays you have 1000 sky channels and 1000s of movies on netflix for 110 Euros, what over the year costs you 1310 Euro more than earlier.
You can project this kind of behavior to more areas of life, what basically shows that the standard of living has gone up and we are not happy to give it up again.
Overall it is possible to live on one income, but then sky+movies, cinema weekly, dining out weekly, takeaway, two cars, two vacations abroad per year are not affordable anymore.

MouseTail

Entry into the EU, the end of the marriage bar, and a move to a more open economy enabled more women to work and have economic freedom. Whilst many women worked in the 60s and 70s either out of financial necessity or to improve their families standard of living, it was mostly in the black economy, cleaning, knitting etc.

eviltwin

People work for all sorts of reasons. I don't get the implied judgement of people who work to be able to buy nice things. What's wrong with wanting nice things? You don't need a car or a holiday or a tv or nights out but what a sad, miserable life it would be if you had nothing to look forward to.

Wanderer78

eviltwin wrote: »

People work for all sorts of reasons. I don't get the implied judgement of people who work to be able to buy nice things. What's wrong with wanting nice things? You don't need a car or a holiday or a tv or nights out but what a sad, miserable life it would be if you had nothing to look forward to.

its a fair point alright but we re being made to think if we dont consume, we ll be unhappy:rolleyes:

stefanovich

armabelle wrote:

Can anybody who know a bit more about this share the answer please?

Woman wanted the right to work. So they got that right, market was flooded and wages dropped. Moral of the story is be careful what you ask for.

stefanovich

JustTheOne wrote:

But we constantly crave new things and have to have them.

All this stuff makes up a tiny fraction of my salary.

Wanderer78

stefanovich wrote: »

Woman wanted the right to work. So they got that right, market was flooded and wages dropped. Moral of the story is be careful what you ask for.

a lot more complicated than that. im delighted to see more women in the work place. changes workplace dynamics among-est other things.

stefanovich

Hijpo wrote:

Netflix isn't free and freeview is woeful.

Freeview is far from woeful. I bet you'll find that most of the channels you watch are actually free to air.

Wabbit Ears

MY wife is very well educated, A masters degree topped off with an internationally recognised professional accreditation. All the way up to having kids she was studying for her accreditation and only achieved it after years of study just after our first child was born.

We were actually financially ok when she was a stay at home mother for 5 years but her education was going to waste. she kept busy and ran a reasonably successful from home business. But as time went on she was getting frustrated and it was severely affecting her mental health. we came up with a go back to work plan with a mix of in-home child minder and crèche.

so yea, Highly educated women is a very good reason why some families have both parents working.

Alf Veedersane

Suddenly I feel like we should book a holiday abroad this year, spend more on phones, get the broadband and netflix in, eat out, go to the cinema and buy a car. Both of us work and don't do all of the above so we must be doing something wrong.

Wanderer78

Alf Veedersane wrote: »

Suddenly I feel like we should book a holiday abroad this year, spend more on phones, get the broadband and netflix in, eat out, go to the cinema and buy a car. Both of us work and don't do all of the above so we must be doing something wrong.

i personally think it aint you thats the problem but a fundamentally flawed economic system

ThisRegard

Wanderer78 wrote: »

i personally think it aint you thats the problem but a fundamentally flawed economic system

Maybe some people just want to do and buy these things? Occam's razor should have been swung at this thread a lot earlier.

Alf Veedersane

Wanderer78 wrote: »

i personally think it aint you thats the problem but a fundamentally flawed economic system

Tbh most of what we don't do/have of the above is either by choice or by lack of opportunity (young child).

esforum

Hijpo wrote: »

For the record we both work and have sky and Internet because 100 euro a month is easier to come by than 50+ anytime we want to go out to be entertained be it the cinema, a meal, night away etc etc

guess who and trivial pursuit just don't have that edge anymore.

I slight tilt of the dish, a decent aerial and a good triple box gets you saorview, UK freesat which has most of the most watched channels (I do miss Fox it has to be said) and streaming ia Kodi and the likes.

Your post would indicate that I was having a go at people who have these things, I wasnt. I was merely suggesting that in the modern world we arent as content with having 'our lot in life' and just reading a book or watching RTE. It wasnt a pop at anyone, just a reflection on how times have changed. We are more social now and our work / life balance has shifted, a healthy shift in my opinion.

The last part was a little sad, board games are a great way to interact with others and especially children or perhaps being more modern, having friends over for dinner and a WII night, etc instead of glued to a screen.

Charles Babbage

eviltwin wrote: »

People work for all sorts of reasons. I don't get the implied judgement of people who work to be able to buy nice things. What's wrong with wanting nice things? You don't need a car or a holiday or a tv or nights out but what a sad, miserable life it would be if you had nothing to look forward to.

I'll get you anything my friend, if it makes you feel alright
Cos I don't care too much for money, and money can't buy me love

Eugene Norman

pwurple wrote: »

On the expense of living in the first world...

Your middle of the road family seems to have vehicles worth at least 30k sitting in the driveway. And if they go for older ones, thousands in maintenance & tax.

Children now require being supported until they are finished 3rd level education, plus a wedding and a house deposit after that.

Medical care for the elderly is advanced, and financially crippling.

Foreign holidays? Expected.

Thousand euro smartphones, 3 or more per family, plus associated plans.

We do our best to reduce all of those, and my children will hopefully be working outside school in some form as soon as it's safe and they are able. Even if it's just doing some organising at a car boot sale on the weekends, or participating in bake-sales.

I find some of the threads on this subreddit interesting reading. A lot of personal stories about reducing debt, reducing outgoings, and financial investments and planning.
https://www.reddit.com/r/financialindependence

None of these are the reason why two incomes are needed since they are not universal. Your 30k car is probably a myth, but people have bought cars worth the average industrial wage for generations.

Children being supported until 21 is probably true but is only a few extra years. Financial care for the elderly is generally from the older persons own estate or by the state itself.

The mobile phone probably saved money compared to 1970. Foreign holidays are hardly a luxury these days. If two incomes are needed for a Ryanair ticket to Ibiza we are screwed.

The real reason is housing costs.

Milly33

I was just going to say I think it is because people want more and think ohh I have to have this have to that... Me personally I don't have any kids but I would much prefer to be there to pick them up when they fall down rather than be there to give them an ipod when they are sad

esforum

Wabbit Ears wrote: »

MY wife is very well educated, A masters degree topped off with an internationally recognised professional accreditation. All the way up to having kids she was studying for her accreditation and only achieved it after years of study just after our first child was born.

We were actually financially ok when she was a stay at home mother for 5 years but her education was going to waste. she kept busy and ran a reasonably successful from home business. But as time went on she was getting frustrated and it was severely affecting her mental health. we came up with a go back to work plan with a mix of in-home child minder and crèche.

so yea, Highly educated women is a very good reason why some families have both parents working.

Its an interesting post and subject. In my wifes family both herself and her mother have qualifications. Her mother is qualified in psychology but never worked a day in her life as she went from college to marriage and kids. I asked her before if she ever got the itch to use it and her answer was not really, she enjoyed her life, the father in laws money was good, spent all her time with her kids which she loved and in daily interactions she would sometimes use her knowledge.

Compare that too my wife, again she loves the kids and spending time with them but would jump at the chance to get into her chosen field and it has nothing to do with cash, sure we would like more but its as you say, she feels her education is being wasted.

the Difference in generations can clearly be seen in the two

esforum

Eugene Norman wrote: »

Foreign holidays are hardly a luxury these days. If two incomes are needed for a Ryanair ticket to Ibiza we are screwed.

Your grandparents probable never left the country and spent a week in Kerry or Donegal for their honeymoon. That Ryanair ticket is multipled by a minimum of 3 for a family, plus baggage, plus hotels, plus spending mone and many people wouldnt go for less than 2 weeks if not 3.

Again, not having a pop at people for wanting to enjoy life but you seem obsessed with housing, houses have never been cheap, they were smaller. Kids shared rooms which now is apparantly inconceivable to some even when they are all the same sex.

Alf Veedersane

Milly33 wrote: »

Me personally I don't have any kids but I would much prefer to be there to pick them up when they fall down rather than be there to give them an ipod when they are sad

So both parents work so they can buy gadgets for their child because that's the only way they know how to interact with their child?

accensi0n

Alf Veedersane wrote: »

Tbh most of what we don't do/have of the above is either by choice or by lack of opportunity (young child).

Is not having broadband a choice or forced because of location?

Alf Veedersane

accensi0n wrote: »

Is not having broadband a choice or forced because of location?

A choice. I can access what I might need to, which isn't much, on my phone.

Wabbit Ears

esforum wrote: »

Its an interesting post and subject. In my wifes family both herself and her mother have qualifications. Her mother is qualified in psychology but never worked a day in her life as she went from college to marriage and kids. I asked her before if she ever got the itch to use it and her answer was not really, she enjoyed her life, the father in laws money was good, spent all her time with her kids which she loved and in daily interactions she would sometimes use her knowledge.

Compare that too my wife, again she loves the kids and spending time with them but would jump at the chance to get into her chosen field and it has nothing to do with cash, sure we would like more but its as you say, she feels her education is being wasted.

the Difference in generations can clearly be seen in the two

When My parents Met and married they were in college together. It was not in Ireland. My mother and father both have doctorates and had extremly good job prospects. In fact, my mother had probably better career prospects than my father in a utopian non-existanct equal oppertunites world.

However when they moved back to ireland in the 1960's she was basically not allowed work in her field as a married woman. She had 5 kids, stayed at home and wasted a Doctorate in Pure Maths ( think 'big bang theory' type matematics).

So the differnece between our generation and My mothers is that now a highly educated woman is valued and supported in Irish society.

Take mothers statements about how happy they were to give up their career and education with an appropriate amount of salt ( or wine/valium as appropriate).

iguana

The thing is though that when you read the likes of The Two Income Trap, that it does appear that for an awful lot of families, they are not better off than single income families of the past. Yes families now have more tech, but that's because so much of that tech didn't exist or was prohibitively expensive a generation ago. Food, clothing, travel, etc are all comparatively so much cheaper now than they were when we were small children. However the real difference is that accommodation costs have skyrocketed. People who have no/low accommodation costs can live in what I consider extreme luxury for very little expenditure. I also find that when you can afford pretty much everything you want without having to struggle for it, it's very common to find yourself wanting far less.