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Mayo GAA Discussion Part 2

rebel girl 15

New thread continued from here.

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Canadel

Syferus wrote: »

First line is a strange back-handed insult, as is the last. But I cannot for the life of me get over the fact no one's pulled you up on the fact you've called AOS the best footballer on a team with Keith Higgins, Kevin McLoughlin, Colm Boyle and Lee Keegan. All players who I'd consider significantly better footballers than AOS.

AOS might be the best midfielder of his generation but he's far from the best footballer on the Mayo team. Saying best footballer has connotations you don't seem to have considered.

Nothing insulting about it. He has exploited his popularity and footballing ability very well. Hence I called him clever.

All excellent players, but O'Shea is simply in a different sphere. He's a more complete and adaptable footballer than any of the others. Higgins comes closest to challenging him, but even he falls short.

PressRun

Castlebar fairly ****ting the bed right now.

ultrapercy

Fair balls to Ballybodin but Mitchells performance was up there with the worst ever seen in a major final. How can a good team underperform to such a degree? The regrets from a showing like that leave an indelible imprint. There seemed to be a lack of even basic effort at times.

paidinmhaire

Disappointing contribution from the players that Castlebar would have been looking to to put in a good performance and provide leadership.
Tom Cuniffe looked in a lot of trouble from the start in terms of pace and for a man of his experience the penalty give away he wont be happy with. Barry didn't feature enough at all and was lucky to stay on the field, he seemed to raise his elbow into the BB players jaw. Richie was ineffective and on many occasions served only to slow the pace of attack. Danny didn't feature much but maybe he didn't get the service or opportunity.
overall the number of kicking and handling errors from a lot of the Castlebar players from the throw in was of a ridiculously low standard , I'd say management could not believe what they were looking at.
The club championship in Dublin could be moving ahead of other counties in a big way it seems, maybe its not fair to be too critical of Mitchels.

Canadel

paidinmhaire wrote: »

The club championship in Dublin could be moving ahead of other counties in a big way it seems, maybe its not fair to be too critical of Mitchels.

Too big a selection of players to choose from and consequently too much quality. Mitchel's simply can't beat the best Dublin clubs playing purely football. They need a game plan, some kind of set up and structure that will both stop the Dub teams from playing to their optimum and allow Mitchel's to take more efficiently from whatever chances they create. Easier said than done I know.

paidinmhaire

Canadel wrote: »

Too big a selection of players to choose from and consequently too much quality. Mitchel's simply can't beat the best Dublin clubs playing purely football. They need a game plan, some kind of set up and structure that will both stop the Dub teams from playing to their optimum and allow Mitchel's to take more efficiently from whatever chances they create. Easier said than done I know.

Yeah that's a fair point, though I'm sure they had a game plan, theres a lot of experience and knowledge on that Mitchels management team.When a lot of your players are unable execute the basics at high speed, whether due to very able opposition or something else, then I'm not sure theres a plan B or even a plan A.

martyos121

And to think we cancelled our parade for that!

Ah no in all seriousness, I think it was a bad case of nerves that cost us the game, we all know the talent is there within the panel but they badly underperformed (whatever's in the water in Mayo seems to make us all terrified of Croke Park finals) and Ballyboden took their chances pretty effectively.

Hard luck though, it was a great achievement reaching two finals in three years. Have to pin my hopes on the county team now to avoid relegation and have a good run in the championship.

[Deleted User]

ultrapercy wrote: »

but Mitchells performance was up there with the worst ever seen in a major final. How can a good team underperform to such a degree? The regrets from a showing like that leave an indelible imprint. There seemed to be a lack of even basic effort at times.

Spot on. No other way to describe it. Was in Croker today. Thats the junior, intermediate and senior all ireland club finals lost within the last 6 weeks. Has any other county actually managed to discover new levels of misery that we seem to have a unique ability to find?

[Deleted User]

Deleted User wrote: »

Spot on. No other way to describe it. Was in Croker today. Thats the junior, intermediate and senior all ireland club finals lost within the last 6 weeks. Has any other county actually managed to discover new levels of misery that we seem to have a unique ability to find?

All appears to be stemming from completely useless forwards. Is there something different done at under age in Mayo compared to other counties that for year after year we produce such bad forwards. They didn't have clue what to do today and started going for goals in the first 10 minutes when easy points should of been available ?

[Deleted User]

Deleted User wrote: »

Spot on. No other way to describe it. Was in Croker today. Thats the junior, intermediate and senior all ireland club finals lost within the last 6 weeks. Has any other county actually managed to discover new levels of misery that we seem to have a unique ability to find?

Its a shocking indictment on Mayo football.

How can a team with Castlebars quality of player, and player experience, suck so much on the big occasion ?

I beyond shocking.

It reminds me of the 2006 AI final.
Mayo are back, two years after a defeat, and the expectation is that they have at least learned from the previous experience, and they go out and perform even worse than the first time.
That's what today reminded me of.

Why can't our players do what so many other clubs and county teams do year in year out.
Get to a big game, step it up, perform on the day and win the title.

Why can't that happen.

Its sickening.

davegrohl48

[Deleted User] wrote: »

All appears to be stemming from completely useless forwards. Is there something different done at under age in Mayo compared to other counties that for year after year we produce such bad forwards ?

Yes there is something different, our players work on skills less. Our young players train only when club training is on. A measly two hours a week, skills development is average with few footballs and large sided games where strong players dominate.
- No schools training
- National schools not even togging teams
- Club football is filled with outside Managers trying to win right now with zero focus on development of skill in even the medium term.
Meanwhile we're trying to protein shake and foam roll our way to an All Ireland at Senior level. The answer is simply young players with footballs in schools and at home.
We should have diverted 20% of the senior budget ages ago into St Colemans, St.Gerards, Muiredachs, St Tiernans, St. Josephs, St. Brendans, Swinford, Balla, Westport, St. Louis and St Nathys. Not all those schools own footballs. They borrow them on match day from the local club.
We have an insanely big senior panel each Year while our schools tog for matches to an audience of one teacher using one borrowed football and borrowed jerseys.

[Deleted User]

Deleted User wrote: »

and started going for goals in the first 10 minutes when easy points should of been available ?

Yes, heard that widely discussed today. Unease set in early which then mushroomed into way worse. Many point chances there for the taking were spurned that could have settled the team down.

Audioslaven

Complete utter crap from Castlebar... not marking up and defenders too far off the BB forwards.
Too slow getting the ball into the forward line results in the opposition getting back in numbers to defend as well. We carry the ball way to much into a load of defenders and don't let it off early into the forward line. I witnessed the same **** from Mayo last sunday.
I can only remember one long kick into the forward line today at around 57 mins. It is extremely frustrating to watch this naive play

davegrohl48

But sure is it any suprise when the favorite drill in Mayo clubs is the handpassing in a small square little 2 yard handpasses, with 8 players chasing 8 players in a square smaller than a tennis court. An outside Manager with a face like a pissed off bulldog roaring Work, work, work, work. Not much kickpassing or skill can result from that. This is the kind of Gray manure chases skillful Players out of the game.

ultrapercy

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

Its a shocking indictment on Mayo football.

How can a team with Castlebars quality of player, and player experience, suck so much on the big occasion ?

I beyond shocking.

It reminds me of the 2006 AI final.
Mayo are back, two years after a defeat, and the expectation is that they have at least learned from the previous experience, and they go out and perform even worse than the first time.
That's what today reminded me of.

Why can't our players do what so many other clubs and county teams do year in year out.
Get to a big game, step it up, perform on the day and win the title.

Why can't that happen.

Its sickening.

Not being picky but there was a gulf and class between Mayo and Kerry back then. I don't that class gap existed today, Castlebar for whatever reasons failed to produce anything like a final performance. They looked like they were playing a friendly against a non rival opponent.

Stoner

paidinmhaire wrote:

The club championship in Dublin could be moving ahead of other counties in a big way it seems, maybe its not fair to be too critical of Mitchels.

The last three games bb played were all against non dublin teams and they were all far better performances than Castlebar showed today. Portlaoise must be going mad and CMR too.

Everything went right for bb and nothing worked for Castlebar. Castlebar messed up big time and wasted a huge opportunity to deliver today that's their own issue 100% imo.

[Deleted User]

ultrapercy wrote: »

Not being picky but there was a gulf and class between Mayo and Kerry back then. I don't that class gap existed today, Castlebar for whatever reasons failed to produce anything like a final performance. They looked like they were playing a friendly against a non rival opponent.

I agree that there was a gulf in class, and it seems that peoples opinions of that gulf have come to the fore more as time has worn on.
At the time optimism was high in Mayo, many like myself figured that they learned something for 2004 and we gave them a fighting chance or better.
But on the day they went out there like they had learned nothing.
And that's what is most annoying about today.

ProudDUB

Stoner wrote: »

The last three games bb played were all against non dublin teams and they were all far better performances than Castlebar showed today. Portlaoise must be going mad and CMR too.

Everything went right for bb and nothing worked for Castlebar. Castlebar messed up big time and wasted a huge opportunity to deliver today that's their own issue 100% imo.

+1

Castlebar didn't show up today. Plain and simple. They were flat, leggy, lethargic and their work rate left a lot to be desired. That doesn't have a darn thing to do with the state of the Dublin club championship.

[Deleted User]

Deleted User wrote: »

All appears to be stemming from completely useless forwards. Is there something different done at under age in Mayo compared to other counties that for year after year we produce such bad forwards. They didn't have clue what to do today and started going for goals in the first 10 minutes when easy points should of been available ?

It can't be that simple.

If it was a lack of forwards then we would not be getting to the number of finals that Mayo teams have been getting to for the last 27 years.

I dare not count the number of national finals Mayo county and club teams have reached since the 1989 Senior Final, but I can only recall a handful of wins.
1 x League
1 x Minor
1 x U21
2 x Club Senior.

How come the return rate is so bad ?

Today was another example of it.
The total and utter inability of seasoned players to go out and execute like seasoned players are supposed to in a major final.

I've always been one to disregard the "Mayo loser mentality" explanation, but after that today you can't argue with people for using it.

homewardbound11

That castlebar team beat 2 damn good sides to get to the final . It was a no show and anyone making comparisons to the county or indeed state of Dublin football should leave it for another discussion . I was at it today and no one can feel anything what the players were going through right now . Knowing that they are a hell of a lot better than what was put on today

On paper at least Mitchell's were at least favourites . Credit to boden for putting in a fine performance .
Mitchell's are no where near that performance today . Sadly though they will as will Mayo be forever judged by it .

As for the state of the county we will only know in July to September . Early days.

Audioslaven

I just don't know what the hell is wrong with football in Mayo. How can a bunch of guys show no balls on the biggest game for their club.

Maybe we do too much of the back clapping in mayo and we are not critical enough.

Today was nothing short of terrible... shameful. I know loads will say the players will be feeling bad but I think they fooking should with serving up that ****e. What do they expect with that load of crap... what about playing with a bit of pride for your club and county....

Sometimes it feels like we have to be 20% better than the opposition in order to win....

blinding

Audioslaven wrote: »

I just don't know what the hell is wrong with football in Mayo. How can a bunch of guys show no balls on the biggest game for their club.

Maybe we do too much of the back clapping in mayo and we are not critical enough.

Today was nothing short of terrible... shameful. I know loads will say the players will be feeling bad but I think they fooking should with serving up that ****e. What do they expect with that load of crap... what about playing with a bit of pride for your club and county....

Sometimes it feels like we have to be 20% better than the opposition in order to win....

That would be a good idea ! And maybe that would help when teams get caught in the headlights in some of these big games !

It should be Mayo's (Private ) Motto from now on. We better keep it to ourselves because we don't want to gg-eee up the opposition.

[Deleted User]

Audioslaven wrote: »

I just don't know what the hell is wrong with football in Mayo. How can a bunch of guys show no balls on the biggest game for their club.

Maybe we do too much of the back clapping in mayo and we are not critical enough.

Today was nothing short of terrible... shameful. I know loads will say the players will be feeling bad but I think they fooking should with serving up that ****e. What do they expect with that load of crap... what about playing with a bit of pride for your club and county....

Sometimes it feels like we have to be 20% better than the opposition in order to win....

The old believing their own hype problem ?

I think that had been eradicated from inter county teams, but maybe not from club teams.

Before the Cross game I noticed a lot of optimism around Castlebar and when I asked why, the most common answer seemed to like "these guys are good, this is our year".

I even asked about it on this thread, but got no replies.

Cross are a good team with lots of experience, not to be taken with a pinch of salt.

But they went on to beat Cross and based on the nature of BBs win over Clonmel, I too got the feeling that they should go on and won it all.

Maybe this was their year !

mayo.mick

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

It can't be that simple.

If it was a lack of forwards then we would not be getting to the number of finals that Mayo teams have been getting to for the last 27 years.

I dare not count the number of national finals Mayo county and club teams have reached since the 1989 Senior Final, but I can only recall a handful of wins.
1 x League
1 x Minor
1 x U21
2 x Club Senior.

How come the return rate is so bad ?

Today was another example of it.
The total and utter inability of seasoned players to go out and execute like seasoned players are supposed to in a major final.

I've always been one to disregard the "Mayo loser mentality" explanation, but after that today you can't argue with people for using it.

Someone was telling me last night that there was an article in the Irish Times yesterday I think about the number of finals we have been in. 34 (now 35) and only 5 wins.

Audioslaven

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

The old believing their own hype problem ?

I think that had been eradicated from inter county teams, but maybe not from club teams.

Before the Cross game I noticed a lot of optimism around Castlebar and when I asked why, the most common answer seemed to like "these guys are good, this is our year".

I even asked about it on this thread, but got no replies.

Cross are a good team with lots of experience, not to be taken with a pinch of salt.

But they went on to beat Cross and based on the nature of BBs win over Clonmel, I too got the feeling that they should go on and won it all.

Maybe this was their year !

Quite possible they believed their own hype. Durcan was on saying they were a better team now than 2 years ago. Better at what I would ask? ... making a bigger mess of a final...

We use to much of the short handpassing and we don't kick the ball. We are too slow to attack and as a result the opposition can get back. This happened yesterday and on sunday against Kerry.

We have a big guy in AOS which in my opinion is best suited at full forward, yet we don't know how to kick the ball into him... .. The support is terrible for him as well. AOS causes panic in any full back line when he gets the ball in his hands.

Last sunday for the whole of the first half, all attacks came down the right hand side. The players never tried to vary the attack down the left but Cathal Carolan was not fit and he didn't have the power in his legs to kick the ball never mind beat a player. He needs another year out to sort himself. He was left on for 3/4 of the game. WTF was that about.

I don't post here much but yesterday was the mirror image of 04/06 where I felt like someone had robbed me or stole my woman. I was ready to go slapping and I hate violence.

blinding

mayo.mick wrote: »

Someone was telling me last night that there was an article in the Irish Times yesterday I think about the number of finals we have been in. 34 (now 35) and only 5 wins.

The Question is how are We good enough to get to so many Finals

Its a mystery ! But the only way out of it is having teams that are good enough to get to Finals and being strong enough to perform in the Finals and being able if necessary to recover from an unfavourable start. Obviously it would be better not to have a bad start but it can happen.

Anyway its a Mystery . I suppose we needs People/Teams that are strong enough mentally/ability wise to take on the challenge and not give up until they "WIN"

[Deleted User]

blinding wrote: »

The Question is how are We good enough to get to so many Finals

Its a mystery ! But the only way out of it is having teams that are good enough to get to Finals and being strong enough to perform in the Finals and being able if necessary to recover from an unfavourable start. Obviously it would be better not to have a bad start but it can happen.

Anyway its a Mystery . I suppose we needs People/Teams that are strong enough mentally/ability wise to take on the challenge and not give up until they "WIN"

And why does this inability to perform in finals transcend through teams and generations ?

We hear all the time about other teams , “being hungrier”, “wanting it more”, “not leaving without the trophy” etc.

But that never seems to happen with Mayo teams .

Is there a certain malaise in the county where on a given day, when the game is going against them, the collective sense is not the “not leaving without a trophy” mentality but instead a mentality of “so what if we lose, how different will we be from any other Mayo team that came before us, life will go on” ?

Do we not criticise them enough for bad performances?

How do you criticise amateur guys that are putting in far more than most of us would every dream of?

Do we not praise them enough for success?

As I keep saying there is quandary for Mayo fans, be too positive about your team and be called a hype merchant, be too negative and be blamed for it seeping into the players’ heads.

blinding

mayo.mick wrote: »

Someone was telling me last night that there was an article in the Irish Times yesterday I think about the number of finals we have been in. 34 (now 35) and only 5 wins.

We could do with quizzing the 5(management) winners and see what they believe they got right.

And the 30 (management) not winners and see what they consider they did not get right.

With this much experience and information, it surely can be of use to us.

I assume some managers had some experience of both.

[Deleted User]

blinding wrote: »

We could do with quizzing the 5(management) winners and see what they believe they got right.

And the 30 (management) not winners and see what they consider they did not get right.

With this much experience and information, it surely can be of use to us.

I assume some managers had some experience of both.

Good idea
Let's start with the 2001 NFL winner, and then move on to the 2006 U-21 winner.

Oh wait......

blinding

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

Good idea
Let's start with the 2001 NFL winner, and then move on to the 2006 U-21 winner.

Oh wait......

A bit unfortunate there alright;) but the theory may still have some merit .

How did they manage to lose the confidence of the senior panel though !

Its a bit of a mystery but if Mayo are not successful this year then maybe more will come out.