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Get out you feckers, Goldman Sacks owns this house now!

stoplooklisten

Over 200 families in Dublin are facing eviction, as their homes look set to be sold to meet debts by a property developer.
http://www.98fm.com/200-Families-In-Tyrrelstown-Facing-Eviction

So GS bought the debts and now wants to empty the estate and sell lit. Surely they can't do this?

Nama, for the people, by the people, of the people. vulture funds at it's best.

no word from the ptrb

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BattleCorp

Dohnjoe wrote: »

Would probably make people far less likely to lease their houses to long term renters

If I owned a house I would like to know I could give the renters reasonable notice in order to sell it

Tax incentives for property owners housing longer term renters would probably be better

My cousin in America had to be paid $42,000 compensation to move out of their house when the landlord wanted to sell the house.

Skylinehead

smash wrote: »

Do the tenants have a current lease agreement with ulster bank?

Not sure who'd they be with, the developer in debt or UB.

AlexisM

MadJack2016 wrote: »

Legislation needs to be ennacted to protect renters.

Over a century ago farmers won security of tenure preventing them from being evicted at a whim.

In many European countries long term tenants have greater protections.

Renters could form a lobby group to fight for reform of the rental market.

But this isn't a whim. The owner wants to sell the house - are you saying we should have legislation to prevent that? There would be quite an exodus of landlords from the business if so.

Also, from the stories in the press, it seems that the tenants were paying quite a bit under market rate and that is part of their problem in finding new accommodation. I would have thought it best for a functioning rental market for the landlord to be allowed to charge a market rate?

I would have no problem with security of tenure as long as the market rate could be charged and the landlord could give notice if he was actually selling the property. WHo would be a landlord otherwise?

edbrez

Send them all to Longford.

ED E

Surely its possible to determine if the development you're in is financially distressed? The writing has probably been on the wall for a while if they'd looked.

In any case GS have no responsibility to fix the Dublin housing market. Thats what we pay those monkeys on Kildare St for. Sure the "think of the childers joe" brigade don't listen to reason anyways...

MonkieSocks

I watched a Film about the property bubble last night.

It's called "The Big Short"

Show's what greedy banks and landlords do and who ends footing the bil.

Great Film, Masterful performance from Carell.

Cakes and Ale

snubbleste wrote: »

It's their 'family home' as you put it.

Sure, and when I had to move (or 'got evicted') due to the landlord selling up I had to leave the 'family home'. And I never got a TD bleating on about it on Whineline. I got on with things and worked out some space with the landlord to get a new place in about 3-4 months. Someone I read about today has until November to find a new place!!

MadJack2016

AlexisM wrote: »

But this isn't a whim. The owner wants to sell the house - are you saying we should have legislation to prevent that? There would be quite an exodus of landlords from the business if so.

Also, from the stories in the press, it seems that the tenants were paying quite a bit under market rate and that is part of their problem in finding new accommodation. I would have thought it best for a functioning rental market for the landlord to be allowed to charge a market rate?

I would have no problem with security of tenure as long as the market rate could be charged and the landlord could give notice if he was actually selling the property. WHo would be a landlord otherwise?

If mass evictions become the order of the day there will be anarchy and civil war as sure as night follows day. Homelessness could potentially reach catastrophic proportions. If you want full scale disorder go right ahead.

Iwasfrozen

MadJack2016 wrote: »

If mass evictions become the order of the day there will be anarchy and civil war as sure as night follows day. Homelessness could potentially reach catastrophic proportions. If you want full scale disorder go right ahead.

Exaggerate much?

Dohnjoe

MonkieSocks wrote: »

I watched a Film about the property bubble last night.

It's called "The Big Short"

Show's what greedy banks and landlords do and who ends footing the bil.

Great Film, Masterful performance from Carell.

Fun film, but to be more accurate it was about greedy home-buyers purchasing sub-prime mortgages well outside their price range, sold by greedy thrifts, which in turn were repackaged and sold to greedy banks.. which were bet against by greedy traders (ironically the Hollywood "good guys" of the film, who had no problem walking away with billions during the crisis)

Dohnjoe

MadJack2016 wrote: »

If mass evictions become the order of the day there will be anarchy and civil war as sure as night follows day. Homelessness could potentially reach catastrophic proportions. If you want full scale disorder go right ahead.

People who lease out their property can give notice and sell their own homes - it's the standard across the world and somehow we haven't all broken down in anarchy and started worshiping fire

Common sense appears to be the order of the day

chillin117

Lights On wrote: »

His brother Andrew was always the nicer one.

Was he the waiter in Fawlty Towers ?

mansize

MonkieSocks wrote: »

I watched a Film about the property bubble last night.

It's called "The Big Short"

Show's what greedy banks and landlords do and who ends footing the bil.

Great Film, Masterful performance from Carell.

Watched that on flight home from SFO it kind of made you dispear at how much we are at the mercy of these cretins

StudentDad

Marley and Marley haven't gone away I see. The phrase 'social conscience' is long dead it seems. Prey on the vulnerable and pray on Sunday is the new Ireland.

SD

brooke 2

andekwarhola wrote: »

Heart goes out to the people facing eviction (and the ghoulish pleasure elsewhere online about the properties coming back into the market) but anybody renting in Ireland has no long-term protection against being at the whim of 'accidental landlords'.

That's why despite all the usual homilies here about owning property being an albatross, the fact remains that it's an extremely insecure existence renting in Ireland if you have concrete ties to a certain locale: school-going kids, work etc.

It is always infuriating to hear the usual heads in the media almost castigating people who want to own their own homes. We hear such dross as 'irish people are obsessed with wanting to own property - why can't they be like the Germans, etc, and rent?' How many times have we heard that? What they refuse to acknowledge is that there are very good protections for renters in those countries which enable them to rent for their lifetimes. Nothing like that exists here in Ireland - what is happening to those people in Tyrellstown makes me very angry, even more so as it is all 'legal'.

brooke 2

MadJack2016 wrote: »

Legislation needs to be ennacted to protect renters.

Over a century ago farmers won security of tenure preventing them from being evicted at a whim.

In many European countries long term tenants have greater protections.

Renters could form a lobby group to fight for reform of the rental market.

Top post!

12Phase

Dohnjoe wrote: »

People who lease out their property can give notice and sell their own homes - it's the standard across the world and somehow we haven't all broken down in anarchy and started worshiping fire

Common sense appears to be the order of the day

It's actually not standard across the world, particularly where the owner is an investment fund.

In the majority of countries this type of investment is highly regulated to prevent exactly this scenario!

Most civilised countries actually have very strong tenants rights and a possibility of long term leasing which is a viable alternative to ownership. In fact, this was even the case in Ireland many decades ago too. You'd a lot of regulation and long term rental, controlled rents etc. Those setups were systematically dismantled over the years.

In most civilised countries, those houses would have been sold with sitting tenants and the new owner would simply have to respect their lease.

Why do we have break clauses for sale of property at all, other than it suits the actual FF/FG constituency ; small time amateur landlords...

Eugene Norman

brooke 2 wrote: »

It is always infuriating to hear the usual heads in the media almost castigating people who want to own their own homes. We hear such dross as 'irish people are obsessed with wanting to own property - why can't they be like the Germans, etc, and rent?' How many times have we heard that? What they refuse to acknowledge is that there are very good protections for renters in those countries which enable them to rent for their lifetimes. Nothing like that exists here in Ireland - what is happening to those people in Tyrellstown makes me very angry, even more so as it is all 'legal'.

It's sickening nonsense. Unless we have rental laws like Germany and build enough housing to keep rents moderated that talk is just idiocy. Of course people want to own, if these 200 people were owners but refused to pay their mortgages it would take years to evict them, if ever. The land league would turn up if the houses were worth a few million.

Eugene Norman

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

Exaggerate much?

Maybe but I suspect that the reason why FG did badly is in part because despite the headline figures very few people, landlords aside, are doing well at the moment. Taxes are where they were. Rents are astronomical and the housing market is dead ( at least in the boom you could buy an over priced house fairly easily). Nobody in the rental sector could feel all that comfortable. There are probably IT workers and young doctors with families who worry about dispossession.

Even the Tories are actually looking to build housing in the uk.

Eugene Norman

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

Don't see the issue. Goldman Sachs owns the properties. Can do what they like with them.

But then you probably look back at 19th C evictions and think them delightful.

The renters in these places are paying for Nama. Even though it wasn't Nama in this instance that sold the properties it is doing something similar. They are paying in their taxes for the banks and the previous destruction of the Irish property market by said banks, they are paying to keep mortgage holders in houses.

It's not too much to ask that there be some kind of law to protect renters. As there is to protect mortgage holders.

12Phase

To be perfectly honest, they're playing with fire politically.

I don't think it's unreasonable to draw a parallel between this and the tales of mass evictions that were are seen as a major factor in what led to th foundation of this state in the first place.

Due to the history here and the fact that that particular narrative is basically a huge part of folk history and the national identity it's going to play out pretty strongly.

It also couldn't be more ironically timed as the 1916 celebrations kick off very soon.

PR and political train wreck on the way.

I note they held off until after the general election too. One doesn't really have to be much of a conspiracy theorist to see why.

Eugene Norman

snubbleste wrote: »

So is this a fair comparison to the poor O'Donnells of Gorse Hill?

No because that took a few years longer than a month and the O'Donnells weren't paying any mortgage. The renters are paying rent.

Now if only banks could repossess mortgage holders in arrears by a month things might be equal.

darkpagandeath

I wonder if they go bang again will they get bailed out, Me thinks yes nothing has changed.

12Phase

darkpagandeath wrote: »

I wonder if they go bang again will they get bailed out, Me thinks yes nothing has changed.

The banks?

Too big (and powerful) to fail. So, yes of course they would be.

Galwayguy35

MadJack2016 wrote: »

If mass evictions become the order of the day there will be anarchy and civil war as sure as night follows day. Homelessness could potentially reach catastrophic proportions. If you want full scale disorder go right ahead.

If they can afford to pay 1500 quid a month I doubt they will end up homeless, yeah they might have to move to another area but that's something they will just have to deal with.

From what I gather they were given adequate notice of what is going to happen and like it or not the owners have nothing underhand and have the right to sell their property.

Wanderer78

12Phase wrote:

The banks?

12Phase wrote:

Too big (and powerful) to fail. So, yes of course they would be.

And it looks like one of the next tricks in the book is bail ins!

12Phase

brooke 2 wrote: »

It is always infuriating to hear the usual heads in the media almost castigating people who want to own their own homes. We hear such dross as 'irish people are obsessed with wanting to own property - why can't they be like the Germans, etc, and rent?' How many times have we heard that? What they refuse to acknowledge is that there are very good protections for renters in those countries which enable them to rent for their lifetimes. Nothing like that exists here in Ireland - what is happening to those people in Tyrellstown makes me very angry, even more so as it is all 'legal'.

There's the Irish and British attitude "ah they're only renting" too.
For some reason here renting is seen as either a step to buying or, that there's something wrong with you if you haven't bought by X date.

There are major reality shifts where a lot of people will never get mortgage approval and buying is beyond their means.

We realistically need the German style long term rental options with all of those legal protections.

There has basically been a total paradigm shift due to the property bubble and the financial crisis. Easy mortgages aren't likely again due to intense ECB oversight to mitigate risk to the whole euro system.

Eugene Norman

Galwayguy35 wrote: »

If they can afford to pay 1500 quid a month I doubt they will end up homeless, yeah they might have to move to another area but that's something they will just have to deal with.

From what I gather they were given adequate notice of what is going to happen and like it or not the owners have nothing underhand and have the right to sell their property.

Why should they have to move if mortgage holders in arrears don't have to move?

These people paying 1500 a month are the backbone of the system. They are not the imprudent who bought over priced houses during the boom, nor the banks who lent to them. They are paying for all of that, and the tenured housing of the council housing renters who can't be moved either. They are probably "high earners". They are major tax payers.

You are telling them their families should be moved out ( to where?), their kids removed from school, because that's "the way it is".

There are plenty of restrictions on what landlords can do in many countries, this country used to have such restrictions (until we produced our own class of landlord from the ranks of the gombeens).

Wanderer78

Galwayguy35 wrote:

From what I gather they were given adequate notice of what is going to happen and like it or not the owners have nothing underhand and have the right to sell their property.

Vulture funds are a far more serious problem though. Our homeless problem is just about to get serious

12Phase

Wanderer78 wrote: »

Vulture funds are a far more serious problem though. Our homeless problem is just about to get serious

Lack of regulation and exempting then from regulation by not being banks is the problem.

Vultures will be vultures. It's the fact that we've presented the sheep complete, ready marinated and pinned down for easy pickings that is the big problem!