Would they not build a massive park and ride just outside the m50, for those of us, that would take the train
why should they., only tiny numbers travel by train
because people may switch to train or bus,
BoatMad wrote: » The M20 will ultimately solve it
hans aus dtschl wrote: » Yes, agreed, but there's currently no plan for the M20, unfortunately. As it stands, the current infrastructure is what will be in place for the foreseeable future.
BoatMad wrote: » I would contend it has everything thing to do with it. Even in the UK, with a vastly more successful railway system, they are baulking at the costs of HS2. Therefore its entirely unrealistic to suggest that Ireland will ever build dedicated high speed train routes. We can hardly build an airport connection , never mind a HS dedicated rail link to cork . Hence any higher speeds have to be accommodated with the gauge structure of the existing victorian railway system. Equally such rails are unlikely to be dedicated to high speed traffic exclusively , so the pathing difficulties ( that exist today on IE) will be a huge issue. I presume you understand what I mean by pathing issues
BoatMad wrote: » Now lets examine the swedish high sped rail system ( which is mentioned here in glowing terms) , which currently is running at 200kmph The X2 runs between Stockholm, Gothenberg and Malmo, These have metropolitan populations of approx 2.2million, 1million, and 500,000 respectively Contrast that Ireland , Dublin ( 1.5 million in a radius of less then one hour of centre) , Cork 280,000 Belfast 673,000, ( in Dublin given the distance, the population available to rail is wildly overstated, as it is unreasonable to postulate that commuters, living in Kildare, or wicklow will travel east or north , away from cork to catch a train back south ) Also distances in Sweden are significantly greater , Stockholm Gothenberg is close to 500 km of rail distance, whereas Cork is under 200Km and Belfast even less. Hence there is no real comparison between the two countries or their raill systems At present Sweden has actually not been able to increase many trains above 200Km, due to signalling systems and a decision on whether to go to a dedicated high speed rail route.
BoatMad wrote: » You seem blinded, If you look at numbers being carried on Dublin Cork and Dublin Belfast, you will see that IE is simply irrelevant to the vast vast majority of travellers between those cities, this is especially true of Dublin Belfast. Most business have voted with their BMWs and no longer use any rail at all. ( as the fall off of IEs business class has shown)
BoatMad wrote: » Today we have 450km battery only cars, that outperform any petrol in speed and acceleration and comfort, these are no milk floats ( Tesla Model X) , we have family sized EVs ;like the 2016 Leaf that can do Dublin cork in one charge ( 200km range) ( at a cost of 1 euro 80 cents ) . There is actually a massive glut of over supply of lithium batteries and factories at the moment The production process, I would argue is a lot cleaner , then building ( and running ) trains as for supply there are 5 major suppliers, today of BEVs ( true EVs not hybrids) , BMW, VW, Nissan, Tesla, and Renault. Within 5 years that number will triple, with all major manufacturers having announced plans for BEV releases
BoatMad wrote: » There is no capacity issues on our motorways, with the exception of the M50, which is primarily down to bad engineering decisions. The rest of the country is comparatively empty by european standards and is now serviced by new high standard motorways, and such motorway programmes continues apace, with M11 extensions, Gort etc Anyone who drives outside dublin , knows the road system is a joy to behold, as the massive falloff in Dublin Galway rail traffic as shown The future is private electric personal transport, Ireland is uniquely suited, as we are increasing our supply of renewal energy, our distances are short , which suit battery cars and our temperature climate and good empty motorways are ideal environments for such use. There si simply NO going back to 19th century patterns of transport usage Im sorry , There is simply no justification for intercity ( as opposed to commuter ) services in ireland at all , in my view. Never mind an expensive limited use white elephant of electrified high( er) speed trains, running to comparatively small population centres, already served by underutilised motorways
monument wrote: » Is anybody suggesting a 400 km/h line for Ireland? I'm not. Using a mix of current and new infrastructure -- they need HS2 to be 90% new build because the pathing issues are much greater and there's far less scope for four tracking or diversions where needed in the UK than there is here.
I did not make the comparison between the two countries. But a quick look at the stats and you're not comparing like for like -- it's Stockholm metro area (ie all of Stockholm County) which has 2.2 million people and it's spread across 6,519.3 km2 (ie just slightly smaller than the Greater Dublin area).
You're very focused on history and as things are rather than the future -- Irish Rail as it currently stands is next to irrelevant to what is suggested. Things change. Many people said that the Eurostar and Acela Express would never carry as large as a percentage of passengers as they do now.
I was talking about supply of resources for batteries -- estimated at around 50 years last time I read about it and in a limited amount of countries.
And the tailbacks in and out of Dublin and Cork are growing.
As I said, you're very focused on as things are rather than the future. There's major capacity issues in and around Dublin and Cork. "NO going back to 19th century patterns of transport usage" etc is just your ideology rather than focus discussing the most effective, sustainable, and cleanest way to transport people in the long term.
BoatMad wrote: » Since the introduction of hourly services and railcars. pathing for passenger trains in Ireland is very tight , coupled by very restrictive access to Dublin by Rail
lxflyer wrote: » In the context of the Dublin/Cork line this is absolute nonsense. There is plenty of room for additional paths and better use of the four tracking out of Heuston. The line is not remotely near saturation level. As I posted already in this thread, with a reasonably modest investment, which is what is taking place, the Dublin/Cork non-stop trains could be accelerated to 1 hour 50-55 minutes, and the standard journey time with four stops (Portlaoise, Thurles, Limerick Junction and Mallow) to 2 hours 10-15 minutes.
BoatMad wrote: » for the purposes of achieving what ??, small increments have no real affect on door to door transit times. Better to concentrate on bringing the network up to a reasonable speed overall, Dublin Waterford and Dublin Rossalare has absolutely terrible transit times and massive speed restrictions in places. Consideration should be given to a proper set of ICRs on the Dublin Rosslaree etc Even The return of proper MK3 sets on the Dublin cork, maybe in the form of and updated diesel HST type product to improve comfort and ride quality. But simply chasing speed, does very little. As to pathing issues, unless you have access to different experts to me, I was reliably informed that pathing is an issue for significantly higher speed trains ( which is what is being discussed here, i.e. electrification HST etc )
lxflyer wrote: » These are incremental improvements that can be achieved at a very modest cost. We are talking about €10m per year here and I think that cutting 20-25 minutes off existing journey times as a result of this is a worthwhile investment. It will improve journey times to Waterford, Galway/Mayo, Limerick and Kerry. There are sufficient paths available to deliver that level of speed. Beyond that frankly is dealing with pie in the sky, and I don't see it happening - there is no need for it. But this is a very worthwhile investment.
Dublin/Rosslare is constrained by the DART service and the paths available - improving speed between Dublin and Greystones isn't possible without an extra track. All of the services bar one return working are booked for ICRs nowadays on the route.
Dublin/Waterford is constrained by the need to serve Kilkenny.
Any of the single track lines will suffer due to the need to wait and pass trains at crossing loops - there's not much one can do about that.
BoatMad wrote: » Then we have no disagreement, however its not the topic of this thread
BoatMad wrote: » As someone who lives in Gorey, let me tell you its constrained by terrible line speeds outside the DART area It takes 2 hours to do 60 miles
BoatMad wrote: » Only the morning train 8:30 and the evening train out is an ICR all the rest are totally unsuitable commuter stock ( the same issue is also identified in the 2013 strategic rail review ) any google search will provide this document
BoatMad wrote: » The strategic rail review 2013 , has identified very significant speed restrictions and poor track , particularly south of Kilkenny, Journey times are slower know then in the 19 century
BoatMad wrote: » Not the issue, in many cases, timetabling can easily solve that , often there isn't a competing train running in the opposite direction anyway
BoatMad wrote: It wouldn't surprise me to hear an announcement next year
Markcheese wrote: » If they were going to announce it they'd have done it before the upcoming upcoming election .. could easily have come up with a fudge to have " kept the project going" rather than the blanket no,that they came out with ...
funnyname wrote: » There must be a massive buffer built into the current timetables across the board. Left Heuston last night 15 minutes late on the 19.35 to Galway, pulled into Athenry one minute earlier than the timetabled arrival.
Stephen15 wrote: » A few suggestions I would make on the wexford to improve services would be to not have services stopping at greystones as it is not necessary to have them stopping as there is aleady a 30 minute dart service there, allow a higher speed at the rathdrum section of track and fence off and put footbridges on the quay section in wexford town aswell as putting up proper level crossings.
Sam Russell wrote: » Would it not make sense if the Wexford train terminated at Bray with a Dart taking over onto Connolly, perhaps only stopping at Dun Loagharie in between. This would free the Wexford train to return to Wexford, perhaps allowing for an extra run in the day.
BoatMad wrote: » yes but Bray no longer has anything like the necessary room for stabling several railcar sets . changing and waiting annoys rail commuters and modern stations have poor waiting and refreshment facilities ( this leaves aside the fact that stranding railcar sets at the edge of the dublin areas renders them unavailable for other duties throughout the day and also there 48 hour visit to the maintenance depot in portlaosie
The train standing in platform 3 is the Wexford train leaving in 5 minutes - why does it need stabling? It saves the 30 mins into Connolly and the 30 mins back out? The train is not available for the rest of the network as it is busy.
Stephen15 wrote: » It's a pity the dart has so many stations that are excessively near one an other which slow down other trains seapoint and salthill come to mind both are 5 minutes walk of one an other. Having a third looping platform at dart stations would be a good idea so as a dart or a commuter train could pull into the third for a couple of minutes to let a faster intercity pass it out. I have seen this done in italy where fast get priority over slow trains.
BoatMad wrote: » yes indeed, but much of the "Dublin to Kingstown " railway was built even then through upmarket housing and land take was kept to a minimum, hence little space is available for passing loops . the problem is that the track was never designed to support high frequency rail usages
Stephen15 wrote: » Yeah its a bit of pity we have such an outdated suburban rail system in dublin. In the rome suburbs they have all the land around the tracks is owned by the railway in case extra tracks are needed so they have to make cpo.
