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Steven Avery (making a murderer) Guilty or innocent?

timthumbni

Having watched this 10 part documentary on Netflix regarding the trial of Steven Avery in some hick state (Wisconsin) in America I'm interested in other boardsies thoughts on the case/outcome.

I really don't know what to think. If I was on that jury after a local girl was murdered would I have also found him guilty?? Possibly...

His nephews interrogations were very hard to watch. Painful. His legal advisor/solicitor Len kazinsky was dodgy as feck. He appeared to me to be like a character from Fargo.

In summary I am not sure if Avery is innocent. But equally I'm not sure he is guilty. And considering that the law is supposed to presume innocent until proven guilty then should Avery be in jail?

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mewe

bubblypop wrote: »

Because I don't just go on a one sided documentary to decide.
There's a lot more to the case.

As above. Unless you can present something credible to argue why he's guilty, just saying the documentary is one sided is lazy in my opinion.

Two Tone

I understand people not being sure (I was like that for a while) but being convinced of his guilt... not sure there, I mean... why? So much allegations were debunked. What is there that is solid which points to his guilt?

mewe

Tipsy McSwagger wrote: »

Not everyone is lazy enough to just to watch a one sided documentary.

That's won the argument for you right there.

[Deleted User]

mewe wrote: »

Can I ask, why do you think he's guilty?

Because I don't just go on a one sided documentary to decide.
There's a lot more to the case.

Tipsy McSwagger

mewe wrote: »

I can't quite understand why people are still on the fence about Steven Avery. I'm not singling you out or anything, you've given an honest assessment but whatever you think about his character with regard to his past, the murder conviction is just ridiculous and such a blatant set up. After what happened before with him and the previous miscarriage, it's like a horror story.

Not everyone is lazy enough to just to watch a one sided documentary.

mewe

bubblypop wrote: »

Mobile phone records do not track the victims vehicle. They track the victims phone.
Which anyone could have.
Doesn't really prove anything other than that phone was where the triangulation showed it to be.

I think he is guilty btw, if not just him, someone on his property with his knowledge.
I'm just pointing out that tracking a moveable object, without proving the victim had it , means nothing.

Can I ask, why do you think he's guilty?

[Deleted User]

DEFTLEFTHAND wrote: »

I've heard Avery's legal team are planning to enter new evidence. Triangulation mobile phone records apparently tracked the victims vehicle arriving and leaving the Avery property.

Mobile phone records do not track the victims vehicle. They track the victims phone.
Which anyone could have.
Doesn't really prove anything other than that phone was where the triangulation showed it to be.

I think he is guilty btw, if not just him, someone on his property with his knowledge.
I'm just pointing out that tracking a moveable object, without proving the victim had it , means nothing.

mewe

It's so sad. We're dealing with peoples lives being taken away from them by these sick bastards.

Noahboah2014

mikeym wrote: »

Any updates on Brendan Dassey?

He deserves a retrial.

Would also love to hear an update. Have seen a few links on Fb recently but nothing solid

mikeym

Any updates on Brendan Dassey?

He deserves a retrial.

mewe

DEFTLEFTHAND wrote: »

I've heard Avery's legal team are planning to enter new evidence. Triangulation mobile phone records apparently tracked the victims vehicle arriving and leaving the Avery property. The last contact was picked up 10 miles from their property at 5.30pm. Averys phone stays situated at his home all night.

Apparently his original defense team had this information in 2007 but were not permitted to use it in court at the time.

I'm still on the fence about Stephen Avery but it certainly is a fascinating case. It's interesting to note that this technology is what snared Joe O'Reilly here in Ireland.

I can't quite understand why people are still on the fence about Steven Avery. I'm not singling you out or anything, you've given an honest assessment but whatever you think about his character with regard to his past, the murder conviction is just ridiculous and such a blatant set up. After what happened before with him and the previous miscarriage, it's like a horror story.

DEFTLEFTHAND

I've heard Avery's legal team are planning to enter new evidence. Triangulation mobile phone records apparently tracked the victims vehicle arriving and leaving the Avery property. The last contact was picked up 10 miles from their property at 5.30pm. Averys phone stays situated at his home all night.

Apparently his original defense team had this information in 2007 but were not permitted to use it in court at the time.

I'm still on the fence about Stephen Avery but it certainly is a fascinating case. It's interesting to note that this technology is what snared Joe O'Reilly here in Ireland.

The Raptor

smash wrote: »

May 31st is the deadline for Kathleen Zellner's brief to be submitted to court. https://wscca.wicourts.gov/appealHistory.xsl;jsessionid=2D0B9943AF1266FA501512235342FF5B?caseNo=2015AP002489&cacheId=8600BA3B7F7342E65209A814D01D2D2F&recordCount=4&offset=0&linkOnlyToForm=false&sortDirection=DESC

If she has the evidence she says she has then it's going to get very interesting!

Does this mean we have to wait until June for any kind of an update?

smash

May 31st is the deadline for Kathleen Zellner's brief to be submitted to court. https://wscca.wicourts.gov/appealHistory.xsl;jsessionid=2D0B9943AF1266FA501512235342FF5B?caseNo=2015AP002489&cacheId=8600BA3B7F7342E65209A814D01D2D2F&recordCount=4&offset=0&linkOnlyToForm=false&sortDirection=DESC

If she has the evidence she says she has then it's going to get very interesting!

Sunflower 27

https://youtu.be/nIkGph9UCDU

Storytelling hour with Ken Kratz. Enjoy.

smash

Good video in this article http://www.rawstory.com/2016/03/the-woman-unmaking-americas-most-famous-murderer/

Noo

smash wrote: »

This was only ever claimed by the police after they found her vehicle on Avery's property. Prior to this it was always believed that her last stop was George Zipperer, who's wife even testified that the victim was at their property some time between 12 and 3 and that she never saw Teresa leave. When the car was found at Avery's they immediately dismissed all other suspects. Andres Martinez was also on the Avery property the day the car was found. He had previous convictions and left the Avery property to go home and axe his girlfriend. He also made subsequent statements that Steven and Brendan are innocent... Google it, you couldn't make this stuff up.

Jesus christ it really is bang your head off the wall stuff! If sense finally prevails officers will have to be charged criminally.

smash

nacho libre wrote: »

So the new evidence is a prowler(?) unauthorised person had access to the crime scene and the phone masts proves she left his place, despite it being claimed previously that was the last place she had been? Why were her voice messages deleted and who did this? It seems to me the person who hacked her voicemail deleted them, but why?

This was only ever claimed by the police after they found her vehicle on Avery's property. Prior to this it was always believed that her last stop was George Zipperer, who's wife even testified that the victim was at their property some time between 12 and 3 and that she never saw Teresa leave. When the car was found at Avery's they immediately dismissed all other suspects. Andres Martinez was also on the Avery property the day the car was found. He had previous convictions and left the Avery property to go home and axe his girlfriend. He also made subsequent statements that Steven and Brendan are innocent... Google it, you couldn't make this stuff up.

An update on the case is that Avery's lawyer filed a motion on the 8th to request 21 days to review the prosecution records so nothing will be happening until some time in April.

cowboyBuilder

mad stuff Ted ...

nacho libre

So the new evidence is a prowler(?) unauthorised person had access to the crime scene and the phone masts proves she left his place, despite it being claimed previously that was the last place she had been? Why were her voice messages deleted and who did this? It seems to me the person who hacked her voicemail deleted them, but why?

The Raptor

Laois_Man wrote: »

Kathleen Zellner also says someone using a fake name accessed the Avery property during the search.

Also I see Avery's girlfriend at the time of the murder Jodi Stachowski gave an interview showing a completely different view point to what's shown in the documentary. She believes he's guilty

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2016/01/13/making-a-murderer-steven-avery-s-ex-fiancee-claims-behind-closed-doors-he-s-a-monster.html

I think she was paid to turn against him.

I think they were all paid in some way, each and every one of them. Except Brendan, he was an easy target.

Jodi had a chance to get away from him while he was in prison. But she stayed waiting for him in his trailer in the hope that he would be released. The cops intervened and told her to move.

But instead, she's coming out now saying that she tried suicide by eating rat poison. Things must have been very bad to eat rat poison. But then she had the chance to get away while he was in prison, so I don't get it.

Boom_Bap

Laois_Man wrote: »

Kathleen Zellner also says someone using a fake name accessed the Avery property during the search.

Also I see Avery's girlfriend at the time of the murder Jodi Stachowski gave an interview showing a completely different view point to what's shown in the documentary. She believes he's guilty

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2016/01/13/making-a-murderer-steven-avery-s-ex-fiancee-claims-behind-closed-doors-he-s-a-monster.html

Throughout the trial Jodi was standing firmly behind him. It was only later that she changed her mind and started making claims to press rather than to the cops.

Laois_Man

Kathleen Zellner also says someone using a fake name accessed the Avery property during the search.

Also I see Avery's girlfriend at the time of the murder Jodi Stachowski gave an interview showing a completely different view point to what's shown in the documentary. She believes he's guilty

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2016/01/13/making-a-murderer-steven-avery-s-ex-fiancee-claims-behind-closed-doors-he-s-a-monster.html

Supernintento Chalmers

http://www.independent.ie/entertainment/television/tv-news/making-a-murderer-steven-averys-lawyer-says-mobile-phone-records-provide-airtight-alibi-for-avery-34520477.html

Boom_Bap

smash wrote: »

His new attorney claims to have enough evidence to exonerate him outright without the need for a retrial. Tomorrow or Monday are earmarked as days to keep an eye on, but we'll see what happens.

I've read that it's cell phone records.

In relation to the claims of the jury being unbias, the jury was local originally and it was all over the local news back then.
I think that there was a briefing before the trial for the jury not to pay attention to what they have heard in the media and to not pay attention to the media over the course of the trial.

ScumLord

smash wrote: »

His new attorney claims to have enough evidence to exonerate him outright without the need for a retrial. Tomorrow or Monday are earmarked as days to keep an eye on, but we'll see what happens.

I wonder will the news be using spoiler alerts? They could just end up ruining the end of making a murderer 2.

smash

Antar Bolaeisk wrote: »

How are they going to ensure an unbiased jury this time around, surely everyone in the world has heard about this case at this stage and a large number of people have watched the show.

His new attorney claims to have enough evidence to exonerate him outright without the need for a retrial. Tomorrow or Monday are earmarked as days to keep an eye on, but we'll see what happens.

ScumLord

Antar Bolaeisk wrote: »

How are they going to ensure an unbiased jury this time around, surely everyone in the world has heard about this case at this stage and a large number of people have watched the show.

I don't think it would be too difficult. It was a netflix show so it would have had a limited amount of people watching it. The rest would be getting their news from traditional news sources.

MadDog76

Antar Bolaeisk wrote: »

How are they going to ensure an unbiased jury this time around, surely everyone in the world has heard about this case at this stage and a large number of people have watched the show.

They weren't worried about an unbiased Jury first time round anyway ........

Antar Bolaeisk

8-10 wrote: »

I think this is the point, rather than being a whodunnit

A couple of things about the investigation and trial just looked wrong, and there is definitely some believability that class came into the way some of it was handled.

For instance there was definitely something shady in the way Kratz interviewed Bobby Dassey on the stand. Making it seem like his conversation with Mike happened on the 3rd and not the 10th, and Kratz being the one to suggest it happened that way and not the witness volunteering it that just looked very shady. I know the defense moved for a mistrial on the back of that but I think at the least the jury should have received instructions in retrospect on how to interpret Bobby's testimony.

The EDTA test I think was the biggest thing that put a dent in their defence, it helped solidify the prosecution's version of events. The test however was completely flawed from the get go, why was there no control run to ensure accuracy of the results for a start? The defence probably made a big mistake trying to have such a thing tested.

Also, what was with the weird excused juror who just hung around the place afterwards!

How are they going to ensure an unbiased jury this time around, surely everyone in the world has heard about this case at this stage and a large number of people have watched the show.