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Your 5 most underrated and overrated Hurling/Football players

Torricelli

Underrated:

Darren O'Sullivan - Can't believe he's not a regular starter for Kerry.
Conor McManus - The best forward in the country at the moment.
Darren McCurry - How this guy wasn't even nominated for an All Star baffles me.
Lee Keegan - He's a headcase but an excellent footballer.
John Heslin - A joy to watch, everything he does seems so effortless.

Overrated:

Aiden O'Mahony - Never rated him as a player and his demeanor on the pitch bugs me.
Stephen Cluxton - Excellent keeper, but gets way too much praise for Dublin's success.
Paul Flynn - A glorified marathon runner, lacks basic skills sometimes.
Jamie Clarke - Scores heavily against poor opposition but disappears when the going gets tough. Too small.
Aidan O'Shea - Decent player but is given too much praise. O'Connor is a far superior forward for Mayo.

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corny

I disagree with all of your overrateds and your underrateds are all widely acknowledged quality players.

You've some baffling opinions too BTW. Paul Flynn only being a marathon runner is laughable.

Stoner

Apart from Darren McCurry you've named some seriously recognised (and decorated) footballers.

Lee Keenan is an all-star and very highly rated.
Conor McManus was on most people top 15 pick in the papers and here for the last two years a hugely respected player
Heslin hands-down I think is recognised as the best player not on a top team in the country. We had a thread on it last year.
Darren O'Sullivan is highly rated , in fact it only seems to be some Kerry people that think differently in my experience.

Apart from O'Sullivan your football list nearly looks like it a list of the top players with no all Ireland's.

Regarding Flynn, he can field, tackle hard, read the game, play great diagonal play switching passes, he didn't have a good season last year. However watch his second half performance in the final last year when it really mattered. When needed he produced.

I can understand though why some would get sick of hearing about his four all stars etc. The pundits go on about it too much as its a safe comment, same happens with the Gooch an established classy forward but he can have some terrible games contributing nothing that a modern forward is expected to do, make one pass that created a point and Carney will bang on about it all day as its low hanging fruit.

Lazy pundits, in their eyes some players can do no wrong and in equal portions others no right.

Dirty Dingus McGee

Paul Flynn is one of the all time greats.He was Dublins best player in 2 of their last 3 games last year and overall it was a poor year for him.

He didn't win 4 all stars in a row for nothing.

To say Paul Flynn lack basic skills is nonsense, he always seems to score, he's a great foot passer and fielder of the ball as well.

Stoner

Underrated footballers

Mayo's Conroy don't know why he's not started he's a natural forward imo in a squad crying out for them
Donegals Mac Niallais great in the air accurate , good temperament a top midfielder possibly top 5 imo
James McCarthy knows the position and defending better than most, not flashy.

Lu Tze

Torricelli wrote: »

Underrated:

Darren O'Sullivan - Can't believe he's not a regular starter for Kerry.

He always seems to be carrying or recovering from an injury, don't think he has been fully fit or at peak condition for the championship for years. If he was he would likely be starting far more often. I don't think anybody rates him as a poor player, just unlucky.

Alan Brogan I feel sorry for, surrounded by a poor Dublin team for the years he was at his peak, showed his potential as one of the best playmakers in the country when in the international rules set up. Best Dublin forward I've seen play, including the current crop.

Nidgeweasel

Paul Flynn lacks basic skills

Stoner

I do get your Point. However he may not have won as much as gooch, you'll never be allowed compare them as equals.
Will Michael Murphy have two or three all Ireland's like Alan. Who knows he's still great, would McMahon boss him ? I don't think so. At the very least he has one.

Brogan has done well imo the last five years were good he missed one. Picked up two AI medals, they are calling it three now but I think he says two.

Plenty of great players with less or nothing .
Peter Canavan was better than them all mentioned here imo he didn't win buckets good times passed him by more than Alan.

cms88

Torricelli wrote: »

Underrated:

Darren O'Sullivan - Can't believe he's not a regular starter for Kerry.
Conor McManus - The best forward in the country at the moment.
Darren McCurry - How this guy wasn't even nominated for an All Star baffles me.
Lee Keegan - He's a headcase but an excellent footballer.
John Heslin - A joy to watch, everything he does seems so effortless.

Overrated:

Aiden O'Mahony - Never rated him as a player and his demeanor on the pitch bugs me.
Stephen Cluxton - Excellent keeper, but gets way too much praise for Dublin's success.
Paul Flynn - A glorified marathon runner, lacks basic skills sometimes.
Jamie Clarke - Scores heavily against poor opposition but disappears when the going gets tough. Too small.
Aidan O'Shea - Decent player but is given too much praise. O'Connor is a far superior forward for Mayo.

If anything Aiden O Mahoney should be in the underrated list!

Agree with Jamie Clarke very good with Cross in the club championship but have never really seen him do it at intercounty level. Thats not helped by the fact he seems to go traveling every year!

Cluxton i would say is overrtaed. Yes hes a good keeper but nowhere near as good as some people try to make him out to be. Have seen quite a few people try to claim him as being the greatest keeper in GAA history, granted manly by Dublin fans who when asked to explain why they cant and wont give an answer.

Aidan O'Shea definitely not overrated, In fact i would say O Connor is the most overrated player on the Mayo team and maybe in the country. Great man to kick frees but does little more. In fact i would say that Aidan O Sheas brother is one of the more underrated players playing at the moment.

Paul Murphy from Kerry is a very underrated player i think. Kerry missed him big time last year when he wasn't playing.

Micheal Murphy is a player who i think gets a bit more praise then he should. Can be very good against weaker teams but has gone missing a lot of big days.

A lot of players from the stronger counties will always be overrated in my opinion, or at least people will try and say they are. The Gooch being the prime example of this.

washman3

Strange that Mayo seem to have the most over and under-rated players.
Aidan O'Shea must be the most over-rated player of this generation, aside from Emmet Bolton of Kildare. His brother Seamie is very under-rated probably because he never courts the media in the way Aidan does.

Others,
Darren O'Sullivan
Donncha O'Connor Cork
Paul Kerrigan
Peroxide Blonde guy from Wexford
Donaghy Kerry
All over-rated

John Heslin W/Meath
Ger Brennan Clare
Johnny McCarthy Limerick
Quinlivan Tipp
Hurley Cork
All under-rated.

Nidgeweasel

cms88 wrote: »

Micheal Murphy is a player who i think gets a bit more praise then he should. Can be very good against weaker teams but has gone missing a lot of big days.

Care to point out when exactly this was?

cms88

Nidgeweasel wrote: »

Care to point out when exactly this was?

All Ireland Under 21 final 2010, All Ireland semi final 2011, All Ireland Quarter final 2012, Ulster final 2013, All Ireland Quarter final 2013, All Ireland final 2014, All Ireland Quarter final 2015

Stoner

cms88 wrote:

All Ireland Under 21 final 2010, All Ireland semi final 2011, All Ireland Quarter final 2012, Ulster final 2013, All Ireland Quarter final 2013, All Ireland final 2014, All Ireland Quarter final 2015

OK apart from

All Ireland Under 21 final 2010
All Ireland semi final 2011
All Ireland Quarter final 2012
Ulster final 2013
All Ireland Quarter final 2012
All Ireland final 2014
All Ireland Quarter final 2015

When did Michael Murphy ever go missing?

Nidgeweasel

cms88 wrote: »

All Ireland Under 21 final 2010, All Ireland semi final 2011, All Ireland Quarter final 2012, Ulster final 2013, All Ireland Quarter final 2013, All Ireland final 2014, All Ireland Quarter final 2015

So basically almost every Championship game the Donegal team have lost since 2010?

Laughable really.

cms88

Nidgeweasel wrote: »

So basically almost every Championship game the Donegal team have lost since 2010?

Laughable really.

Did you even read what i had said? Ill put it in capital letters for you so you can see it. BIG GAMES. All the games named were just that and he was nowhere to be seen. Then again you're obviously from Donegal so you're going to be bias

Nidgeweasel

cms88 wrote: »

Did you even read what i had said? Ill put it in capital letters for you so you can see it. BIG GAMES. All the games named were just that and he was nowhere to be seen. Then again you're obviously from Donegal so you're going to be bias

From Donegal, yes. Not that it matters in truth.

You're approaching this too broadbrush. Ignoring form, fitness, opposition set up. Did Gooch go missing in the AI QF in 2012 or did he simply not get a sniff because of tight marking and 2 sweepers in front of him?

Did player of the year James O'Donaghoe go missing in the All Ireland final 2014 or did he not get a sniff because Neil McGee (who outscored him) was up his arse from the first minute with covering players ahead of him?

Players not playing well or struggling doesn't equate to going missing. Take the U-21 final for example, the team as a whole didn't play well in the first half at all, nor did Murphy who was isolated and rather brilliantly shackled by Rory O'Carroll. Yet he still managed 1-2 and hit the crossbar with an effort which would have won it in the last minute. Not bad for a buck who was apparently nowhere to be seen.

There are countless examples in key moments in big games where Murphy has stood up to the plate again and again and again. It's a nonsense the point you're making tbh but I'd expect no less in a thread where somebody has said Paul Flynn lacks basic skills!

seligehgit

Tour de force from the brilliant Conor McManus thus far!

Torricelli

Cluxton proving my point very well too. His kick-outs have been awful.

Swiper the fox

washman3 wrote: »

Strange that Mayo seem to have the most over and under-rated players.
Aidan O'Shea must be the most over-rated player of this generation, aside from Emmet Bolton of Kildare. His brother Seamie is very under-rated probably because he never courts the media in the way Aidan does.

Others,
Darren O'Sullivan
Donncha O'Connor Cork
Paul Kerrigan
Peroxide Blonde guy from Wexford
Donaghy Kerry
All over-rated

John Heslin W/Meath
Ger Brennan Clare
Johnny McCarthy Limerick
Quinlivan Tipp
Hurley Cork
All under-rated.

Brilliant, one of those is so overrated that you don't even know his name.
Have to say the first post is baffling.

PressRun

I think Cluxton can get rattled sometimes. He can have great games and seems to be integral to how Dublin function, but it is possible to get under his skin. Don't know if I'd go so far as to say he's overrated though. Still think he's a great keeper.

Conor McManus is one of the best players in the country and is neither over nor underrated. If there was a transfer market in GAA, I'd take him to Mayo in a heartbeat.

Nidgeweasel

seligehgit wrote: »

Tour de force from the brilliant Conor McManus thus far!

A fine edit to that post Mayo man!

seligehgit

Nidgeweasel wrote: »

A fine edit to that post Mayo man!

Yeah kinda had a brain freeze moment,no offence meant to his offaly cousin.;)
I blame the election coverage...

davegrohl48

I'll just go with five underated based on their ability and lack of National acclaim for their ability.
1. Eoin Cadogen. Would make any team in Ireland and be in their top 5 players.
2. Patrick McNulty. This guy is unknown playing for Tyrone and is a very good player. Strong direct runner.
3. Caolan Mooney. Very athletic, strong player. Usually plays well each game for Down.
4. Michael Fitzimmons. Not as well known as Cian OSullivan or Johnny Cooper but a very hard defender to get open from. Doesn't get widely recognized for it, usually never mentioned in media analysis.
5. Graham Reilly. Well known but not really appeciated how consistent he has been in an average Meath team. Has played many positions and played well in all of them. In the top ten footballers of the last ten years.

Stoner

PressRun wrote:

I think Cluxton can get rattled sometimes. He can have great games and seems to be integral to how Dublin function, but it is possible to get under his skin. Don't know if I'd go so far as to say he's overrated though. Still think he's a great keeper.

Has there ever been a more influential keeper though?

Seriously though, even if people don't think he's a good keeper, teams think they have to stop him to beat Dublin. Have you ever seen a keeper put under more pressure or targeted more,

Have you even known a keeper to have kicked the winning point in two All Ireland finals ?

Have you ever seen a keeper that was copied so much?

As I said you might not like him or his style , but he is very influential, I've never seen a keeper put under the pressure he has been , I'd say most would be rattled if they were.

PressRun

Stoner wrote: »

Has there ever been a more influential keeper though?

Seriously though, even if people don't think he's a good keeper, teams think they have to stop him to beat Dublin. Have you ever seen a keeper put under more pressure or targeted more,

Have you even known a keeper to have kicked the winning point in two All Ireland finals ?

Have you ever seen a keeper that was copied so much?

As I said you might not like him or his style , but he is very influential, I've never seen a keeper put under the pressure he has been , I'd say most would be rattled if they were.

I'm not arguing with any of that. As I said, I don't believe him to be overrated. I think the fact that teams who play Dublin have to devise a plan for dealing with him and curbing his influence on a game speaks to his quality. I was simply pointing out that he can get rattled and make mistakes, which plays off the "if you stop Cluxton, then you stop Dublin" narrative (which I think is a bit of an over-simplification of things anyway), and is possibly part of the reason some might regard him as overrated.

therambler

Over-rated: Barry John Keane, Alan Dillon, Finian Hanley, Donie Shine (Roscommon),
Under-rated: Sean McDermott (Roscommon), Ger Brennan (Clare), Sean Quigley (Fermanagh), Colm Cavanagh

Dirty Dingus McGee

I think Michael Murphy is over rated.

His skill level isn't he's one of the most skillful players to play the game but his performances have not matched his talent over the years.He's suffered massively from paying for Donegal and sacrificing himself for the team rather than being the focal point in attack like he should be without as much defensive responsibility.

Torricelli

Another for the underrated brigade would probably be Donie Kingston of Laois. Fantastic player playing in a poor Laois side, it's a pity his year was ended so early last year.

ProudDUB

Dirty Dingus McGee wrote: »

I think Michael Murphy is over rated.

His skill level isn't he's one of the most skillful players to play the game but his performances have not matched his talent over the years.He's suffered massively from paying for Donegal and sacrificing himself for the team rather than being the focal point in attack like he should be without as much defensive responsibility.

You can hardly blame the player, for where his manager chooses to play him. If he doesn't have as many headline grabbing days at the office (as Conor McManus did for Monaghan yesterday, for example) it's because of where he plays on the pitch. It's not because there is something inherently deficient or lacking in MM, that leads to consistently under performing in big games and therefore deserving of the tag of "over rated."

You could even argue that it is his willingness to sacrifice his own personal glory, for the greater good of the team, that sets him apart from other great players. How many of them are willing to put their own egos aside and do that? Not all that many, I'd say.

robbiezero

Stoner wrote: »

Has there ever been a more influential keeper though?

Seriously though, even if people don't think he's a good keeper, teams think they have to stop him to beat Dublin. Have you ever seen a keeper put under more pressure or targeted more,

Have you even known a keeper to have kicked the winning point in two All Ireland finals ?

Have you ever seen a keeper that was copied so much?

As I said you might not like him or his style , but he is very influential, I've never seen a keeper put under the pressure he has been , I'd say most would be rattled if they were.

Cluxton has fundamentally changed the role of goalkeeper and is a significant influence in changing the way the sport itself is played.
Very highly rated and deservedly so. The Dublin player that the opposition teams have to spend most time analysing prior to games.

happyoutscan

Stoner wrote: »

Mayo's Conroy don't know why he's not started he's a natural forward imo in a squad crying out for them

I'd have to disagree. Gets the ball, high-tails it towards goal before erratically changing direction towards corner flag. Every time.

Nice guy but nowhere near good enough for a starting berth.