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Child Item

Child Killed in Sulky Accident

foggy_lad

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/boy-11-killed-when-the-pony-and-trap-he-was-travelling-on-collided-with-truck-34489544.html

When are the authorities going to take proper action and stop this senseless loss of life? When are Horses going to be banned in city areas and taken from children and teens?

How many children have to die before the councils and government get their act together and round up all these horses and euthanise them?

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Smidge

NIMAN wrote: »

Didn't know that. Just assumed, wrongly.

That's the problem with these threads sadly.

yqtwqxqm

Not two weeks ago, I nearly killed someone on a skulky at the back of Dublin airport. I actually ended up in the ditch to avoid hirring them head on coming around a bend.

[Deleted User]

Whosthis wrote: »

Get fu<ked you ignorant <unt.

Do you kiss your mother with that mouth?

djflawless

As The Bull said, "its not the stupid animals fault"

[Deleted User]

foggy_lad wrote: »

before the councils and government get their act together and round up all these horses and euthanise them?

Without knowing the ins and outs of the story, theres a lot of people potentially at fault - maybe the truck driver, maybe other traffic, maybe the child's parents, and most tragically of all maybe the child himself.

It's a horrible and upsetting situation that I hope the courts and the guards get to the bottom of ASAP, but one way or another I can promise you it wasn't the poor horse's fault. Only thing that needs to happen the horse is that it gets put out to pasture/stud/etc

um7y1h83ge06nx

I think horsing around like this can result in dire consequences like we have seen yesterday, a total night-mare. Should children be allowed ride sulkys? I say neigh.

galljga1

Junkyard Tom wrote: »

If everyone travelled by sulky it would cut road deaths down considerably and would also help reduce pollution and carbon emissions.

Edit. Oil wars would reduce too. Fuel for horses is locally sourced.

Yes, if you don't support the banning of cars and a return to horses you're a supporter of war.

You've been on the sauce again.

galljga1

topmanamillion wrote: »

Nonsense. It's like saying if people walked their 20 mile commute it would reduce pollution.

You took him seriously?

Mint Aero

They're a danger to road users. A child under 16 should not be operating any sort of a vehicle on public roads. Who's going to take responsibility for this?

Victor

foggy_lad wrote: »

Child Killed in Sulky Accident

On what grounds, and by who, has it been decided that this was an accident - some unpreventable, random incident?

Independent.ie wrote:

Boy (11) killed when the pony and trap he was travelling on collided with truck

On what grounds, and by who, has it been decided that the pony and trap collided with the other vehicle, thereby implying blame on the deceased's part?

Ave Sodalis

There is a huge need for more education regarding driving around animals. Some people are down right retarded when it comes to animals. I can't count the number of times I've been put into what could have been a fatal situation, and only got out of it because of either the horse I was in just happened to keep its cool, or from sheer luck. You will hear similar stories from every single horse rider. There is a chance that the sulky driver is to blame, there is a higher chance it was the driver at fault. It's terrifying the situations ignorant drivers (and cyclists but they also unknowingly put themselves at risk) can out you in, and on a shockingly regular basis.

TG1

sup_dude wrote: »

There is a huge need for more education regarding driving around animals. Some people are down right retarded when it comes to animals. I can't count the number of times I've been put into what could have been a fatal situation, and only got out of it because of either the horse I was in just happened to keep its cool, or from sheer luck. You will hear similar stories from every single horse rider. There is a chance that the sulky driver is to blame, there is a higher chance it was the driver at fault. It's terrifying the situations ignorant drivers (and cyclists but they also unknowingly put themselves at risk) can out you in, and on a shockingly regular basis.

I don't want to comment on the particular case as its still all unclear, a truck drivers life is irreversibly changed and a family have lost a child.

But in general people who don't deal with horses have no idea how unpredictable they are. They deal with them the same as bikes when they come across them on the road, revving engines, trying to get past asap, ignore hand signals.

They are big unpredictable flight animals, it will cost drivers two minutes max to let the rider/ person in control get to a spot they are comfertable with and allow the car to pass without danger. This needs to be highlighted, whether you come across a horse being ridden, driven or led, slow down, wait until you can give it a wide berth and heed any hand signals the person in control gives.

galljga1

Victor wrote: »

On what grounds, and by who, has it been decided that this was an accident - some unpreventable, random incident?

On what grounds, and by who, has it been decided that the pony and trap collided with the other vehicle, thereby implying blame on the deceased's part?

What?

Rocket19

sup_dude wrote: »

There is a huge need for more education regarding driving around animals. Some people are down right retarded when it comes to animals. I can't count the number of times I've been put into what could have been a fatal situation, and only got out of it because of either the horse I was in just happened to keep its cool, or from sheer luck. You will hear similar stories from every single horse rider. There is a chance that the sulky driver is to blame, there is a higher chance it was the driver at fault. It's terrifying the situations ignorant drivers (and cyclists but they also unknowingly put themselves at risk) can out you in, and on a shockingly regular basis.

I know exactly what you mean, but your argument is out of context.

I also own/ride horses, and will often hack them on the road, but it's not relatable to the incident which occurred yesterday.

These kids are, in many cases, weaving the horse and cart through traffic at high speed, and often on busy roads. It's just not in any way comparable to you or me hacking our horses out on the road.

Oftentimes, the drivers of the sulkies do not consider the danger they impose to everyone involved (drivers of the sulky themselves, the people on the road and in their cars, and of the course, the poor horses).
This is amplified by the fact that many of the 'drivers' are indeed children, who can't possibly anticipate or comprehend fully the consequences of their actions.
It's why 'accidents' happen.

For you to imply that the general communitiy is at fault for lack of education is just plain wrong. I also do not agree that there is a "higher chance" the truck driver was at fault.
These vehicles should not be allowed on the roads, full stop.

There needs to a tightening of the laws surrounding this kind of thing, and zero tolerance shown.
The potential for loss of life like we saw yesterday is too great. People die, horses die, lives are ruined. And why? For a bit of craic and culture..

Hannibelle Smeeeth

I didnt know what a sulky was...read the thread title totally differently and wondered what the hell kind of a sulk could kill a child

Obviously very sorry to read of a child dying, whatever the circumstances. Condolences to family and friends.

Johngoose

It is a terrible tragedy,but this ethnic group have been flaunting road traffic laws and maybe now they will realise that the rules of the road are there for a reason.Also is it responsible parenting leaving three young fellas on a horse and cart on a public road.Put "sulky race" into YouTube and you will see this ethnic group breaking all rules of the road as the guards follow them along main roads.They don't respect the law of the land,they recklessly endanger themselves and now we see the outcome of all of that.

Ave Sodalis

Rocket19 wrote:

Oftentimes, the drivers of the sulkies do not consider the danger they impose to everyone involved (drivers of the sulky themselves, the people on the road and in their cars, and of the course, the poor horses). This is amplified by the fact that many of the 'drivers' are indeed children, who can't possibly anticipate or comprehend fully the consequences of their actions. It's why 'accidents' happen.

I despise sulkies and their usual drivers. It makes my blood boil to see them. I am not by any means defending them (for the most part).

Rocket19 wrote:

For you to imply that the general communitiy is at fault for lack of education is just plain wrong. I also do not agree that there is a "higher chance" the truck driver was at fault. These vehicles should not be allowed on the roads, full stop.

The RSA are massively at fault because there is very very little education when learning to drive about approaching animals. Also, many people do not proceed with caution around horses and completely ignore rider signals.
This is just a one incident out of many. Unfortunately, this one ended in the death of a child, but how many near misses is there on a daily basis?

antodeco

Nearly a daily occurrence out by me. Many a times I have gone through a junction, and a horse and cart fly through a red light on the other road. Additionally, Ive nearly been hit by them going through pedestrian lights with my daughter.

Basic rules of the road are required if you want to use the road, regardless of vehicle or age.

In either case, RIP to the child. Didnt need to die.

billie1b

Johngoose wrote: »

It is a terrible tragedy,but this ethnic group have been flaunting road traffic laws and maybe now they will realise that the rules of the road are there for a reason.Also is it responsible parenting leaving three young fellas on a horse and cart on a public road.Put "sulky race" into YouTube and you will see this ethnic group breaking all rules of the road as the guards follow them along main roads.They don't respect the law of the land,they recklessly endanger themselves and now we see the outcome of all of that.

The child/children in question were not part of any 'ethnic' group or 'culture'.

Rocket19

sup_dude wrote: »

I despise sulkies and their usual drivers. It makes my blood boil to see them. I am not by any means defending them (for the most part).

The RSA are massively at fault because there is very very little education when learning to drive about approaching animals. Also, many people do not proceed with caution around horses and completely ignore rider signals.
This is just a one incident out of many. Unfortunately, this one ended in the death of a child, but how many near misses is there on a daily basis?

I agree with this, but again, it has nothing to do with the incident which occurred yesterday.

You are 100% right when you say more needs to be done to educate drivers on how to handle a situation where they encounter a rider/horse on the road.

However, it just isn't helpful to compare the situation of a safety conscious rider like you or me, where how the driver behaves on the road plays a big part in the safety aspect (not slowing down, speeding by the horse, etc). It's not the same situation.
These are kids handling vehicles (horse and cart), and weaving them through traffic at high speed.

All the education in the world on the part of the driver (of the car) will not stop these incidents/accidents happening, as the horse and carts should not be there in the first place.
There is nothing the driver of a car can do in this situation to minimise risk, bar stopping their vehicle together.

Ave Sodalis

Rocket19 wrote:

However, it just isn't helpful to compare the situation of a safety conscious rider like you or me, where how the driver behaves on the road plays a big part in the safety aspect (not slowing down, speeding by the horse, etc). It's not the same situation. These are kids handling vehicles (horse and cart), and weaving them through traffic at high speed.

But we don't know that this was the case. Yes, children should not have been in control, but there is nothing to say that the cart/sulky/whatever it was was being weaved through traffic at speed.

TG1

Rocket19 wrote: »

These are kids handling vehicles (horse and cart), and weaving them through traffic at high speed.

All the education in the world on the part of the driver (of the car) will not stop these incidents/accidents happening, as the horse and carts should not be there in the first place.
There is nothing the driver of a car can do in this situation to minimise risk, bar stopping their vehicle together.

I disagree, it's not a vehicle its an animal, this is why it all gets even more dangerous. An animal will react to its surroundings, a vehicle will not. If a truck lets off an air brake or a car driver hits the horn there is a high chance an animal will spook, a vehicle will not.

This is where the driver awareness comes into play, whether its my mare suited and booted and high vis everywhere from her browband to high vis strips on her back boots, or a hairy pony with a bit of rope through its mouth, drivers need to be aware they are not vehicles. Everyone need to know that they need a wider berth, and more care when approaching. If this means stopping for a minute then the driver should stop!

Nermal

Torricelli wrote: »

You want to kill the innocent horses? WTF, it's hardly their fault.

Better to be euthanised than 'looked after' by travellers. Should be illegal to bring a horse inside the M50.

TG1

Nermal wrote: »

Better to be euthanised than 'looked after' by travellers. Should be illegal to bring a horse inside the M50.

But of a generalisation, you should pop out to the dunsink horse club... I wouldn't put any of those healthy happy well looked after animals down...

foggy_lad

TG1 wrote: »

I don't want to comment on the particular case as its still all unclear, a truck drivers life is irreversibly changed and a family have lost a child.

But in general people who don't deal with horses have no idea how unpredictable they are. They deal with them the same as bikes when they come across them on the road, revving engines, trying to get past asap, ignore hand signals.

They are big unpredictable flight animals, it will cost drivers two minutes max to let the rider/ person in control get to a spot they are comfertable with and allow the car to pass without danger. This needs to be highlighted, whether you come across a horse being ridden, driven or led, slow down, wait until you can give it a wide berth and heed any hand signals the person in control gives.

This might be the case when you are dealing with a proper horse rider, but when coming up on these sulkies and other traps pulled by mostly unbroken and often underage ponies which are often driven by children with little or no control of the vehicle the best solution is an outright ban and removal and destruction of all the animals.

sup_dude wrote: »

But we don't know that this was the case. Yes, children should not have been in control, but there is nothing to say that the cart/sulky/whatever it was was being weaved through traffic at speed.

Weaving through traffic or not one thing we do know for sure is that if there were no sulkies and traps and illegal horses and ponies that child most certainly would not have died!

In city areas children are almost always in control of these vehicles and parents even buy them horses/ponies for birthdays etc, there is no consideration for animal welfare or indeed the laws of the land.

TG1 wrote: »

I disagree, it's not a vehicle its an animal, this is why it all gets even more dangerous. An animal will react to its surroundings, a vehicle will not. If a truck lets off an air brake or a car driver hits the horn there is a high chance an animal will spook, a vehicle will not.

This is where the driver awareness comes into play, whether its my mare suited and booted and high vis everywhere from her browband to high vis strips on her back boots, or a hairy pony with a bit of rope through its mouth, drivers need to be aware they are not vehicles. Everyone need to know that they need a wider berth, and more care when approaching. If this means stopping for a minute then the driver should stop!

Would you hack on through the busiest traffic in the city with a horse or other animal? probably not?

Now think of the difference between you and a 10-16 year old child and how little they will be thinking of their surroundings and the danger posed to themselves and all around them.

There is no way any car bus or lorry driver can make allowances for these sulkies and illegal horses without actually staying off the roads!

Nermal wrote: »

Better to be euthanised than 'looked after' by travellers These children. Should be illegal to bring a horse inside the M50 Pale.

These animals are livestock and need to be seen as such rather than being seen as cuddly pets for inner city kids. Most livestock has a Purpose and a Value and as such is important and worthwhile keeping these animals alive, These horses and ponies and Foals have NO Purpose or Value as livestock so should not be kept alive under any circumstances

TG1 wrote: »

But of a generalisation, you should pop out to the dunsink horse club... I wouldn't put any of those healthy happy well looked after animals down...

a very tiny percentage of the horses owned used and abused by these people around the country are kept in such a high standard of luxury. Being honest schemes like at Dunsink only encourage the abuse of hundreds of other horses around the city as people see dunsink and feel they are also entitled to have their own horse on the green spaces around their estate.

The current laws need to be enforced with zero tolerance and all the horses removed and euthanised so that such a tragedy has little chance of happening again.

Ave Sodalis

foggy_lad wrote:

Weaving through traffic or not one thing we do know for sure is that if there were no sulkies and traps and illegal horses and ponies that child most certainly would not have died!

Well that's a silly argument which could be applied to every accident or death.

foggy_lad wrote:

Would you hack on through the busiest traffic in the city with a horse or other animal? probably not?

Again, silly. Many carts do. They are all over some cities. A few days ago, a horse drawn hearse was hit in the UK. A few days ago, a video emerged of a lorry driver come dangerously close to a horse and rider. If the horse had even flinched, both horse and rider would have been seriously injured or killed. City or country, idiotic drivers exist. Now we don't know the cause of this particular accident but until we do, I think it's unfair to lay blame on the trap driver.

foggy_lad

When a child dies in such tragic circumstances I don't think laying blame in any direction is helpful and will not change what has happened but removing the horses and traps from the equation will prevent another child being killed or injured in accidents or by livestock roaming around housing estates and built up urban areas.

Ave Sodalis

foggy_lad wrote:

When a child dies in such tragic circumstances I don't think laying blame in any direction is helpful and will not change what has happened but removing the horses and traps from the equation will prevent another child being killed or injured in accidents or by livestock roaming around housing estates and built up urban areas.

Removing dangerous/ignorant drivers would have a similar effect. Again, silly argument.

Ms2011

Strawberry Milkshake wrote: »

That child should have been in school.

He was off school due to the voting.

His poor mother was in town buying his Confirmation clothes

foggy_lad

sup_dude wrote: »

Removing dangerous/ignorant drivers would have a similar effect. Again, silly argument.

Are you seriously proposing removing all other vehicular traffic from the roads to safeguard people and their kids to run amok with horses?

Dangerous drivers are few and far between while almost every one of these horses and sulkies/traps is a danger to all other road users as well as a danger to people living in the same estates and communities where these horses are running wild! There is also a level of illegality involved with most of these horses from them not being microchipped to them not being licensed and also a serious issue with the welfare of most of the animals.

The only reasonable and satisfactory solution is to round up the livestock and deal with them as strays as per the law.