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Child Item

Laws on no backbox?

Daaryl

Can somebody help me out here, My E36 got seized for having no backbox on it, There was a complete exhaust system on it, But just a small bit past the rear wheels to the rear bumper was straight piped, The exhuast still have a cat and a silencer in it so it wasn't loud at bar it idling and small bit loud in 1st and 2nd and it was grand then, Is it legal to have it like that with the cat and silencer in it? Or do i need the backbox too? The car is booked in for the test for the 3rd of march, I had another e36 with the exact same exhaust straight piped from just behind the rear wheels to the rear bumper and nothing got said in the test centre just the fact it was 104dbs, So could anybody shed some light on the legal side of having a backbox or needing one if a cat and the silencer is still in it?

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bear1

I must declare this my nomination for thread of the month.
Tomorrow the op will state that the car also has roll cage made out of tin and wooden chairs for seats.
Get it towed out of the yard and either fix, track day it or sell it.
I have a feeling though you wont be taking option a.

Senna

bear1 wrote: »

I must declare this my nomination for thread of the month.
Tomorrow the op will state that the car also has roll cage made out of tin and wooden chairs for seats.

My bet is its down as a 1 litre on the log book:)

Stheno

bear1 wrote: »

I must declare this my nomination for thread of the month.
Tomorrow the op will state that the car also has roll cage made out of tin and wooden chairs for seats.
Get it towed out of the yard and either fix, track day it or sell it.
I have a feeling though you wont be taking option a.

Senna wrote: »

My bet is its down as a 1 litre on the log book:)

Yiz are both wrong.

It's only rubbing with someone in the back, as he took the back seats out and back seat passengers have to sit on the floor.

Senna

Stheno wrote: »

Yiz are both wrong.

It's only rubbing with someone in the back, as he took the back seats out and back seat passengers have to sit on the floor.

They can't sit on the floor, thats where the 6 Nitrous oxide tanks are, right beside the flux capacitor.

goz83

Senna wrote: »

They can't sit on the floor, thats where the 6 Nitrous oxide tanks are, right beside the flux capacitor.

I can't imagine him fitting 6 Nos tanks in the back with that savage sound system squashed in there, belting out sound waves powerful enough to attract the attention of a Gard enjoying his donut.

selectamatic

goz83 wrote: »

If it looks like a **** box, it probably is.

Clear enough now?

@ the OP, listen to your solicitor. You won't get advice here and have said so many contradicting things, that nobody will take you seriously anyway. I hope it works out though and you learn a lesson from this.

Fair play extra internet points for you today. :pac:

OP did the car fail the db test? sometimes they do with a straight axle back sometimes not. However it must have been routed far too near the petrol tank and/or badly secured for the assessor to highlight fire hazard warnings.

Also car must have been rubbing badly and/or fouling arch guards/arches on lock for the assessor to say the wheels are too big aswell as car being too low, make sure they aren't when ya wind out the coilovers or it'll be same result next time also look into getting proper high quality spacers if they are fouling on lock.
HID's aren't worth the hassle so leave them out and tracking and dash lights are self explanatory, all in all not the end of the world and plenty fixable if you take your time and do it right. Put a side a weekend to sort it out, certainly more than an hour!
Also I certainly wouldn't recommend getting rid of the car as is I feel it'd reflect much better on yourself in the eyes of the law if you sort it all out ASAP and are back legally on the road with the car certified road worthy.
In my experience Guards are not vindictive by nature so I actually feel the sergeant will look more kindly on you if you sort it out and get road legal if you sell it on and replace it with another modded car in a short period of time that would certainly draw more negative attention to you.

As said by Senna guards generally have no problem with legally modded cars and many modified car enthusiast actually have a good healthy relationship with their local gardaí it's when daft things like cut springs and welded diffs come into the equation that things get messy.

Just sort the car out and enjoy owning/driving it legally. clean e36 coupe's are becoming thin on the ground so look after your one properly and you'll have an appreciating asset on your hands. :cool:

Pat Mustard

Daaryl wrote: »

That's your own opinion, Keep it yourself, I'm sure alot of people on this site hate or don't mind them!

Daaryl wrote: »

What did i say? I don't want any pety comments like yours!!

Mod:

Daaryl, if you have a problem with a post, report it.

Back seat modding is not allowed, so please don't do that.

goz83

selectamatic wrote: »

clean e36 coupe's are becoming thin on the ground so look after your one properly and you'll have an appreciating asset on your hands. :cool:

As Robert Kiyosaki would say, "an asset puts money into your pocket, a liability takes money out of your pocket."

Would you say the OP has an asset in the e36 ?

Stheno

goz83 wrote: »

As Robert Kiyosaki would say, "an asset puts money into your pocket, a liability takes money out of your pocket."

Would you say the OP has an asset in the e36 ?

17 year old car ( worth at most 1.5k?) requiring the following:

1. Four new tyres - estimate €600
2. New backbox - estimate €100
3. Worst case scenario with airbag - ecu - estimate €200
4. Worst case scenario with brake light (new light unit needed) - estimate - 200
5. Remove hids and replace with normal bulbs - estimate €80
6. Tax - 200
7. NCT - 55

So total cost to get that car back on the road is about €1350 at least.

selectamatic

I would say the op has a potentially appreciating asset however you or I do not know the financial specifics regarding the car in question so it is quite difficult to make assumptions on whether or not this potential asset will or will not remain as such or as you say become a liability. Fact of the matter is though the current market value of clean e36 coupe's will continue to rise especially models from the 318is up so the potential for a return is always there.
Quoting businessmen turned motivational speakers won't change this fact unless of course Robert kiyosaki has some insider info relating to Ireland's used car market.

Neither will listing guesstimates for how much the repairs will cost (Stheno).
Coming from a background deeply routed in cars I would say the OP could right the car for substantially less of an outlay if he carries out most of the repairs himself as he has alluded to. If he corrects the suspension (which is potentially only a matter of winding out coilovers) then no tyres are needed so that's 600 off your well laid out but wildly speculative list I could carry on nit picking but I won't bother.

Boater123

Stheno wrote: »

17 year old car ( worth at most 1.5k?) requiring the following:

1. Four new tyres - estimate €600
2. New backbox - estimate €100
3. Worst case scenario with airbag - ecu - estimate €200
4. Worst case scenario with brake light (new light unit needed) - estimate - 200
5. Remove hids and replace with normal bulbs - estimate €80
6. Tax - 200
7. NCT - 55

So total cost to get that car back on the road is about €1350 at least.

Don't forget the cost of a tow truck to get it back off the Gardaí.

selectamatic

friends with trailers can come in handy

tuxy

Does the PSV test have to be paid for?

endacl

Stheno wrote: »

Having read the Ops thread history, I'd say he's long been on the cops radar before this. He appears to be most unfortunate in the amount of times he has come to their attention with his cars/driving.

On the other hand, I can't help feeling that the rest of us are most fortunate that he has. The lad appears to have a bit of growing up to do, motoring-wise...

bear1

Here is what I see will happen to the car.
4 part works put on - nothing wrong with that I suppose but its a failed economy.
Light bulb for the airbag removed, back box from the scrappy put on.
Car sold and re bought to get the free months tax.
Proper bulbs put in without the alignment done.
Tracking wont be sorted as he said its barely out.
Proper plates put on till after the nct..
If the car actually passes ill salute you.

L1011

selectamatic wrote: »

Fact of the matter is though the current market value of clean e36 coupe's will continue to rise especially models from the 318is up so the potential for a return is always there.

Clean? It's a poorly/dangerously modified unroadworthy heap.

Falcon L

I have no problem with the modding scene and I like to see a car improved with a few subtle design tweaks. However, these bangers tarted up as DTM cars are usually an eyesore, literally in the case of illegal "HIDs". I laugh at the shopping list stickers on the glass as well.

Kudos to the cops for taking this one to task. Dangerous, illegal crap boxes need to be cubed IMHO.

Clareman

Getting back to the whole "legal" part of the topic, my opinion is that the backbox is to add additional sound suppression to the car, the law would be that you wouldn't need 1 once the car wasn't over 99db (which this car is by some way).

In regards to the modified car, it's my understanding that the driver of the car has a duty of care to ensure their car is road worthy, there are numbers of guidelines available as to what is and is not legal and there is a very handy service that everyone can avail of every 2 year (1 year for older cars) that'll test your car to tell you if it's legal that day or not.

By having a car that isn't road legal you a nullifying your car insurance and leaving yourself open to all kinds of legal hassles, if you deem it worthwhile to do so far play but I would imagine that if you can't afford to tax a car you wouldn't be able to cover legal or medical expenses in the event of the car being involved in an accident.

st1979

I would of said at first that he should get rid of the car. But as he is well know to the cops now he will have problems with the next. Because like it or not the next will be modified as well.
So he might be better off fixing this one getting cops to verify it is nice and legal. Then when he is at a modified car meet in the future he will be the only one there that the gardai will know is legal and above board and leave him alone.
Now the second part is attitude. Try not to act the prick with them.

First part might be easier than the second for you.

Now if he does all repairs the rest of you should be happy. As a illegal car which may be dangerous will now be safe

Falcon L

st1979 wrote: »

I would of said at first that he should get rid of the car. But as he is well know to the cops now he will have problems with the next. Because like it or not the next will be modified as well.
So he might be better off fixing this one getting cops to verify it is nice and legal. Then when he is at a modified car meet in the future he will be the only one there that the gardai will know is legal and above board and leave him alone.
Now the second part is attitude. Try not to act the prick with them.

First part might be easier than the second for you.

Now if he does all repairs the rest of you should be happy. As a illegal car which may be dangerous will now be safe

Yeah but seriously, what are the chances that, having passed inspection, the car will be made illegal again immediately? It only takes minutes to make the headlights illegal.

goz83

selectamatic wrote: »

I would say the op has a potentially appreciating asset however you or I do not know the financial specifics regarding the car in question so it is quite difficult to make assumptions on whether or not this potential asset will or will not remain as such or as you say become a liability. Fact of the matter is though the current market value of clean e36 coupe's will continue to rise especially models from the 318is up so the potential for a return is always there.
Quoting businessmen turned motivational speakers won't change this fact unless of course Robert kiyosaki has some insider info relating to Ireland's used car market.

Neither will listing guesstimates for how much the repairs will cost (Stheno).
Coming from a background deeply routed in cars I would say the OP could right the car for substantially less of an outlay if he carries out most of the repairs himself as he has alluded to. If he corrects the suspension (which is potentially only a matter of winding out coilovers) then no tyres are needed so that's 600 off your well laid out but wildly speculative list I could carry on nit picking but I won't bother.

The only potential appreciation on that heap, is if it is crushed and there is a massive increase on scrap metal. Remember how sure you were that it would pass the psv? Well, lets call it common sense rather than insider knowledge. Tarted cars don't appreciate, they depreciate.

The OPs history is a bit concerning too. He has been pulled in quite a few times and has had at least one other car seized. As I said in an earlier post, I had some modifications done to a car I have (currently declared off the road) and the onlh attention I got from the garda was one of them having a quick chat at the petrol station to tell me that "she looks lovely". An old jdm fan.

IMO, modifications should never stand out from the car. IOW, the average person shoukd not be able to tell if the car is factory, or modified. Stapling a crappy bodykit onto any old yoke is disrespectful to what might have been an asset.

st1979

Falcon L wrote:

Yeah but seriously, what are the chances that, having passed inspection, the car will be made illegal again immediately? It only takes minutes to make the headlights illegal.

If he fixes the problems he will need to keep it legal. Then he might slowly start to come off the Garda radar.
He will still have a highly modified car but a legal and safe one.
The op asked for advice and I have given it.

Cessna_Pilot

goz83 wrote: »

The only potential appreciation on that heap, is if it is crushed and there is a massive increase on scrap metal. Remember how sure you were that it would pass the psv? Well, lets call it common sense rather than insider knowledge. Tarted cars don't appreciate, they depreciate.

The OPs history is a bit concerning too. He has been pulled in quite a few times and has had at least one other car seized. As I said in an earlier post, I had some modifications done to a car I have (currently declared off the road) and the onlh attention I got from the garda was one of them having a quick chat at the petrol station to tell me that "she looks lovely". An old jdm fan.

IMO, modifications should never stand out from the car. IOW, the average person shoukd not be able to tell if the car is factory, or modified. Stapling a crappy bodykit onto any old yoke is disrespectful to what might have been an asset.

I remember the OP posting on another car owners forum a few years back. Exactly the same stuff, and he had cars seized then. Some people never learn.
I drove modified Hondas for years, was never stopped once by the Gardaí.

foggy_lad

Daaryl wrote: »

That's what i want to do is get it fixed anyway, Like it's all stupid small jobs that would take a hour to fix it all, But they're just being awkward about the whole thing

It is becoming apparrent that the Gardai feel you are a menace on the roads in your ****box cars. Maybe if you sell that box of bits you might make enough for a small decent 1litre car like a polo or micra and then you can start over with the Gardai but forget about modifications because you obviously don't have the funds to do it legally!

Daaryl wrote: »

I know but the problem is they're being ****ers about getting it towed out!

When i get it back, It's going into a shed for a few months and i'll get a loan of a car for a while

No completely different car! Considering i only have this car a month

THey are being ****ers because they want to keep you off the roads. They will keep stopping you when they see you in ****boxes until they have you behind bars or in a decent safe and legal car.
http://i3.mirror.co.uk/incoming/article1751441.ece/ALTERNATES/s615/Citroen%20C1.png

Stheno wrote: »

I wonder what happened to the other seized car?

Hopefully This

selectamatic wrote: »

friends with trailers can come in handy

I do hope they have their car in order as that Sergeant seems the sort to check their vehicle for defects and also check the trailer for road-worthiness and safety chains etc

bear1

For the craic I decided to see other threads by Daaryl.

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=94231828

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2057352378

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2057315839

These show why the Guards are hounding you specifically.

And this is my absolute favourite:

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2057337363&page=2

Page 2, post 18, 25, 32 and 38.
And this from someone who has illegal HIDs and a constantly on brake light.

selectamatic

Few points to clear up regarding my post which were based on the op's telling of events. The part of my first post relating to the cars potential condition on inspection was as follows: Chances are it may pass the db test since it has the cat and first silencer still fitted, if lowered correctly you should be sound aswell as long as it can get over the ramp onto the lift you're ok it may be an issue if the rear tyres are rubbing however if as you say it only happens with weight in the back you should be alright. They may warn you over the number plate. Since the diff isn't welded you should be fine as I'd say the primary reason the car was lifted was to try and catch you with an arc spec diff.

Since the psv test was carried out we have learned car was rubbing badly, tracking off, hids, airbag light, break light on constant and poorly routed and secured exhaust. None of these points were alluded to befor the psv test results were posted so again my views weren't in "fairyland" as they were based on what we were told prior to the psv results. Had the car been as described it could very well have passed a psv however it wasn't as there was a list of previously unheard problems included in the results post had they been posted before the result then my view point would have been very different however fact is they weren't.

The term "clean" refers to interior and exterior of a car only and going by the pictures the car is indeed clean. I've never heard anyone say that car had clean mechanicals so I do not see why the mechanical condition is being used to counter my point of the car being clean. There is no law requiring a backbox as long as the tips or axle back pipe is routed and exits in a suitable place and is properly secured. Some cars pass db tests with axle back pipes when the rest of the exhaust system is left intact some don't a lot depends on engine size and how good the first silencer is. OP did it pass or fail db test?
Also I really can't see anyone going to tow a car from the impound with a dodgy car or trailer that'd take a special breed of stupid so I doubt that will be an issue if the smallest bit of common sense is used.
I defended the op as many modified cars are needlessly persecuted by the general public (not in fact the guards), people see a lowered car and instsantly think death trap but if unlike on this occasion the mods are done to a proper road legal standard then the car it just as safe and road legal as any other car on the road and should thus be treated as such.

Supergurrier

You are doing something wrong to keep getting pulled.

I've had some obviously modified cars and some quite loud and never gotten hassle once.

Show respect and take it handy instead of making a thread about how to wriggle out of the consequences of not doing so.

Kat1170

This thread is running longer and further than the OP's car

:D:D

stefan.kuntz

Great thread, OP. Keep her betwixt the ditches. If you ever get back on the road, that is.

goz83

@selectamatic

You defended the op blindly when it had already been established that he was not being honest about...well.....anything really. For most everyone else, it was quite clear that the car was a death trap. Even when the op knew he was doing the wrong thing, he tried wriggle his way out of it. Look at his previous threads and you'll see a level of immaturity, which is dangerous for anyone else on the road near him. Someone with an attitude to safety nowhere near as flippant as the OP rammed into the back of me causing me serious injuries i'm still recovering from nearly 2 year later. IMO, he should not be allowed on a bicycle, let alone a modified car.