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Why are dole bashing threads allowed?

Clampdown

Seriously fcuk these threads why are they not just locked straight away. Most of us on the dole are having a hard enough time and can be very down and isolated from being stuck in the house, struggling with bills, being looked down on, etc. I am not on the dole because I'm lazy, I'm on the dole because there is so little jobs in the Northwest where I live and I can't afford to get the money together to move to Dublin or out of Ireland where there is more work.

Any other condition that people couldn't control would not be deemed fair game for online abuse, why do boards allow constant dole bashing threads when many of us are not on the dole by choice?

And in fairness, it's not as if we are going to cover any new ground with these threads, they all go the same way. Even if I thought all dolies were lazy scum (and sure some are, but so are some people who have jobs!), I'd be bored of these threads. Though when I had work I never begrudged anyone their dole, even the lifers, because I know how crap of a life it is.

Does anyone else think maybe it's time we just stopped having these threads? It makes me not want to use boards any more at all when I see them all the time. Or if you still want to have them around so you can stick the cyber-boot into the Dutch Gold drinking bums, would you be okay with just having a separate forum all about dole bashing and leave it out of the other parts of the site?

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RIGHTisRIGHT

Feminists Gays Travellers Muslims Jews are all out of bounds in the PC tyranny.
However the majority are fair game as in the working class who have been displaced out of the manual jobs by imported low cost labor.

And when the working class do fight their way up I have read a thread here about snobs who did not want a work van parked on their road.
Not one banker has been punished while people get locked up for not paying for the obnoxious propaganda license for the privileged folk in Montrose.

What I find most nauseating here is those that will bash the working class won't hear a word said against the Travellers yet it is the working class areas that gets the joy of all the halting sites
This is the same section of the boards that will make fun of peoples suffering.

I have yet to see an infraction handed out for bashing the working class.

Edit it is the working class that has felt the full brunt of the recession and the recovery has totally bypassed the working class too.

JustShon

RIGHTisRIGHT wrote: »

I have yet to see an infarction handed out for bashing the working class.

Jaysus that's a bit harsh: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Infarction

RIGHTisRIGHT

JustShon wrote: »

Jaysus that's a bit harsh: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Infarction

And the working class get a p**s poor education too.:D

The Raptor

I hear you OP. I was on the dole for about three years and it was soul destroying.

Interview after interview and I got nothing. I studied hard, I didn't go to college for the crack. I went to college in my late 20s so those mad drinking parties and nights out were behind me.

One interview I went for had me in for the day. A friend that worked there said they never took anyone on but would advertise again in a few months. It was a jobbridge that was advertised a few months later.

Another company advertises jobbridge postions every nine months.

You have social welfare on your back asking why you don't have work. I don't know how people in small villages and towns cope where there is little to no work. They force you into useless courses and force jobbridge upon you where you wont be kept on. And back to the same thing after your nine months of breaking your hole.

Geuze

darkpagandeath wrote: »

I often wonder why people bitch about the dole, If it's so great jack in the job and go live on the €188 PW.

The people I know who have chosen to not seek work, and receive JSA indefinitely, have not done so for the 188 pw.

It's the free uni fees and grants for 4 children that's one of the main benefits.

Fees = 3,000

Student grant =5,915

That's 8,915 pa of benefit, by 3-4 years per course, per student.

A possible benefit of 90,000, over and beyond any 188 pw.

RIGHTisRIGHT

osarusan wrote: »

Free fees and maintenance grants?

Are you sure about that?

I did not think you could get both.

Yes but it you take the two you only get one week on the Costa Del sol.:rolleyes:

[Deleted User]

In certain circumstance you could, however it is also available those who are working and under a certain income. It is not just available to those who are unemployed.

Number of dependent children Full maintenance Part maintenance (75%) Part maintenance (50%) Part maintenance (25%)

Fewer than 4 €39,875 €40,970 €43,380 €45,790

4 to 7 €43,810 €45,025 €47,670 €50,325

8 or more €47,575 €48,890 €51,760 €54,630

osarusan

Sorry, deleted my post by mistake instead of saving an edit.
I was confusing it with BTEA.

[Deleted User]

Anyone having an opinion on welfare is fine... boards can't stop debate as such, however it should be based on fact, not on hear say, a miss representation of the facts or what the poster believes is happing as opposed to what is happening, an erroneous belief that they themselves are hard done by, and everyone else is getting away with it!!! nor should the opinion be the product of pandering to the worst of human behaviour i.e bullying and nastiness.

KomradeBishop

Permabear wrote: »

This post had been deleted.

In the US, Corporate Profits are hovering around an all time high:
http://i.imgur.com/W7bv464.jpg

Finance gets what amounts to free money through the effects of Quantitative Easing (as well as a big portion of the rest of better off sections of society, due to the effects this has on markets).

These groups of society are pretty much insulated from unemployment, and they gain a lot of power/profits from it - they don't have to give a toss about less well off parts of society, they in fact benefit from the hardship of the rest of society.

Many financiers love bad debt, when they can personally make a profit off of it - it's called 'Accounting Control Fraud', and 'Financial Innovation' (i.e. hiding the risk within financial instruments) plays a big part in it, and it makes the higher ups in an organization very very rich, so they can jump-ship and let other people deal with the damage later on - known as "I'll Be Gone, You'll Be Gone".

Even though I disagree with many aspects of the film, The Big Short describes parts of the process.

Permabear wrote: »

When people oppose corporate welfare, such as government subsidies to loss-making corporations, they generally believe that those corporations would be better liquidated so that employees could be more productively employed elsewhere.

Wanting people to be employed more productively elsewhere is not remotely the same thing as wishing they were unemployed. And yet this is your "proof" of your claim?

You're grasping at straws here in your endless campaign to vilify people in business and finance.

No, this is my claim, like from my previous post - you brought up corporate welfare, not me:

Yes pretty much all economic conservatives - predominantly and most politically influentially represented by business/finance and other well-off/powerful sections of society, who stand to benefit power-wise from unemployment - always lobby against any possibility of government propping up employment in bad times, and actively lobby for cuts in employment in existing government programs, through funding cuts.

So they actively lobby against policies that would reduce unemployment, they actively lobby for policies that would hold down Aggregate Demand - helping to keep employment from recovering in the private economy - and they actively lobby for policies that would cut existing public employment.
...
Oh, and lets not forget part of that group creating the crisis that caused the unemployment in the first place - and managing to offload such a huge debt burden onto government, that - at the time - it would cripple any existing government ability to alleviate unemployment.

You don't 'more productively' employ people elsewhere in the economy, when there is massive unemployment, by creating more unemployed people...

That's a new one though, I've never heard anyone claim that creating more unemployed people, is actually 'more productively' employing them elsewhere in the economy (and remember, we're talking about a high unemployment economy - I can see that you're going to try and bait-and-switch this, with the example of a full employment economy).

Permabear

This post has been deleted.

One More Toy

Is this a ranting thread now?

Cool!

I fcuking hate when you order a roll in centra and random bits that you didn't ask for end up I your roll.

KomradeBishop

Permabear wrote: »

This post had been deleted.

No, you are ignoring what I have said:

Yes I've given you a ton of examples through actual policy lobbying plus other actions - actions speaking louder than words - showing it in action on the scale of entire industries...

I'm not going to give you a platform to act perpetually 'unconvinced' though, so feel free to provide a counterargument if you disagree.

I don't have to answer on your terms - and I won't. I've provided plenty of arguments describing how the actions of such sections of society betray intent - I don't have to provide words, actions speak far louder than words, so I won't provide that (it's a bit of a stupid request too - like asking a financier to give a quote admitting fraud).

Billy86

RIGHTisRIGHT wrote: »

Feminists Gays Travellers Muslims Jews are all out of bounds in the PC tyranny.
However the majority are fair game as in the working class who have been displaced out of the manual jobs by imported low cost labor.

Someone's projecting. :pac:

Permabear

This post has been deleted.

MEGA BRO WOLF 5000

Hello op.
There are jobs.
Delivery drivers, shop workers, fast food servers are always needed. These are unskilled jobs, there is always a need for them. You're on the dole because you don't want to do this type of work. You'd rather collect 188 for free than work 39 hours for 350.

I will never ever accept "there are no jobs waaah cry cry"

Dyr

VinLieger wrote: »

Welcome to After Hours, you know the entirety of Boards.ie isnt located in this one sub forum yeah?

Indeed, you can find many anti-dole rants in the various politics fora also

JustShon

The Honey Monster wrote: »

Hello op.
There are jobs.
Delivery drivers, shop workers, fast food servers are always needed. These are unskilled jobs, there is always a need for them. You're on the dole because you don't want to do this type of work. You'd rather collect 188 for free than work 39 hours for 350.

I will never ever accept "there are no jobs waaah cry cry"

The jobs you listed are often purely part time work, so it's more like they'd rather collect 188 for free than work 20 hours a week for approximately the same amount of money.

Now in an ideal world people would take the job anyway, and contribute something to society but there's definitely something wrong when doing ****e all earns you the same money as working a 20 hour week.

KomradeBishop

Permabear wrote: »

This post had been deleted.

I've provided substantial backing for my claim, showing how the direct actions and policy lobbying of such sections of society, aim for precisely what I've described - that they precisely result in keeping unemployment high.

You say my claim is 'baseless', and you are wrong, as I've provided substantial backing - you are trying to discount what I've provided, because you want to restrict 'valid' examples, to your very narrow request.

In the US, corporate profits hit and are hovering around an all time high, finance is benefiting from enormous amounts of effective free money through QE - you ignore this, because it completely debunks your claim that unemployment is bad for the sections of society controlling business/finance:
http://i.imgur.com/W7bv464.jpg

There is no reason for these sections of society to give the slightest toss about unemployment, when the increased power/profits far far outweigh any negatives - they actively "lobby against any possibility of government propping up employment in bad times, and actively lobby for cuts in employment in existing government programs, through funding cuts.".

Hell, we're talking about one of the industries that "[created] the crisis that caused the unemployment in the first place - and managing to offload such a huge debt burden onto government, that - at the time - it would cripple any existing government ability to alleviate unemployment".

That's massive substantiation of what I've claimed.

Why would a banker give a toss if people have less to spend, when QE is flooding finance with effectively free money? They don't give the slightest toss about the public, so long as the people working there are individually profiting in salaries and other payments.

The banks actively made sure that many people would not be able to repay their loans pre-crisis - as I said, the people giving out those loans didn't give the slightest toss, so long as they personally reaped the rewards through inflated payments personally, and didn't have to care about the aftermath.

"I'll Be Gone, You'll Be Gone".

KomradeBishop

The Honey Monster wrote: »

Hello op.
There are jobs.
Delivery drivers, shop workers, fast food servers are always needed. These are unskilled jobs, there is always a need for them. You're on the dole because you don't want to do this type of work. You'd rather collect 188 for free than work 39 hours for 350.

I will never ever accept "there are no jobs waaah cry cry"

There are not enough jobs. When you have 20:1 or more unemployed people per job, there are not enough jobs to go around, and there will definitely be a large number of unemployed in that situation.

JustShon

How many people are unemployed at the moment? at 8.9% we're looking at a couple hundred thousand.

There is no way that there are a couple hundred thousand jobs available in Ireland right now.

Permabear

This post has been deleted.

KomradeBishop

Permabear wrote: »

This post had been deleted.

My argument hasn't shifted - I've shown directly, through the actions of these sections of society, that they aim for keeping unemployment high - and that they aim for this based on policy on a macroeconomic scale - all you can show, are 'fig leaf' policies on a small scale.

Finding employment for 100,000 people? Heh - yea that'll make a big dent in the ~7,800,000 people unemployed there - 1.28% of them... - and over 3 years too, and partially utilizing internships.

Pushing for macroeconomic conditions which perpetuate high unemployment long term, with 'fig leaf' initiatives which barely do a thing.

How about a real initiative: Given the record level of corporate profits, they could divert a huge chunk of that money into raising employment massively - but why would they do this, when there are profits to be made? :pac:

They don't give a toss - their macroeconomic lobbying, i.e. their main actions, signify that they actively want unemployment kept high - as this plays a part in their record corporate profits (given that worker bargaining power is smashed by high unemployment).

Permabear

This post has been deleted.

KingMonkey

The Honey Monster wrote: »

Hello op.
There are jobs.
Delivery drivers, shop workers, fast food servers are always needed. These are unskilled jobs, there is always a need for them. You're on the dole because you don't want to do this type of work. You'd rather collect 188 for free than work 39 hours for 350.

I will never ever accept "there are no jobs waaah cry cry"

what bulls.hite,hahaha when there is 40 people competing for half a job in mcdonalds that might get u 10 hours a week just when they are busy

get into the real world u fkn troll its easy to sit at home behind a computer screen and come off high and mighty :pac:

mynamejeff

Clampdown wrote: »

Seriously fcuk these threads why are they not just locked straight away. Most of us on the dole are having a hard enough time and can be very down and isolated from being stuck in the house, struggling with bills, being looked down on, etc. I am not on the dole because I'm lazy, I'm on the dole because there is so little jobs in the Northwest where I live and I can't afford to get the money together to move to Dublin or out of Ireland where there is more work.

Any other condition that people couldn't control would not be deemed fair game for online abuse, why do boards allow constant dole bashing threads when many of us are not on the dole by choice?

And in fairness, it's not as if we are going to cover any new ground with these threads, they all go the same way. Even if I thought all dolies were lazy scum (and sure some are, but so are some people who have jobs!), I'd be bored of these threads. Though when I had work I never begrudged anyone their dole, even the lifers, because I know how crap of a life it is.

Does anyone else think maybe it's time we just stopped having these threads? It makes me not want to use boards any more at all when I see them all the time. Or if you still want to have them around so you can stick the cyber-boot into the Dutch Gold drinking bums, would you be okay with just having a separate forum all about dole bashing and leave it out of the other parts of the site?

posting scutter on those threads give EOTRs life meaning , dont take that from him man !!

KomradeBishop

Permabear wrote: »

This post had been deleted.

I've shown substantial stats of how certain sections of society benefit from these conditions - and have shown how they actively engage in lobbying for policies that perpetuate these circumstances; showing directly through their actions, that they say one thing, and lobby for another.

It's like the example of many of the prominent banks committing Accounting Control Fraud in the lead up to the crisis - they weren't going to say they actively wanted to do something so reprehensible, you judge them by their actions.

Also - a total of half (~23,000) of those businesses closed, were in construction - i.e. related to the above Accounting Control Fraud type activity:
http://i.imgur.com/GUP7Rne.gif

Loads of people made an absolute killing off of the construction boom - the aftermath of the construction industry is exactly the kind of example of "I'll Be Gone, You'll Be Gone" behaviour I'm talking about - the finance industry and well-off/high-up folk in construction/development, didn't give a toss for the people cast off due to that, many of the higher ups there still made their profits before it came crashing down - so a good half of your example actually works in my arguments favour.

Deep Six

JustShon wrote: »

How many people are unemployed at the moment? at 8.9% we're looking at a couple hundred thousand.

There is no way that there are a couple hundred thousand jobs available in Ireland right now.

My brother in law with not a single work experience to list on his cv, recently got employed in McDonald's. He's working 38 hours a week. Explain to me how he got a 38 hour a week job if there's none out there. Some people need to lower their expectations, some just need a swift kick up the arse. This rabble rabble of there being no jobs doesn't wash any longer.

KomradeBishop

Deep Six wrote: »

My brother in law with not a single work experience to list on his cv, recently got employed in McDonald's. He's working 38 hours a week. Explain to me how he got a 38 hour a week job if there's none out there. Some people need to lower their expectations, some just need a swift kick up the arse. This rabble rabble of there being no jobs doesn't wash any longer.

There are not enough jobs out there. It doesn't matter if some people can find a job, when there are 20:1 or so unemployed people for every available job.

fin12

Clampdown wrote: »

Seriously fcuk these threads why are they not just locked straight away. Most of us on the dole are having a hard enough time and can be very down and isolated from being stuck in the house, struggling with bills, being looked down on, etc. I am not on the dole because I'm lazy, I'm on the dole because there is so little jobs in the Northwest where I live and I can't afford to get the money together to move to Dublin or out of Ireland where there is more work.

Any other condition that people couldn't control would not be deemed fair game for online abuse, why do boards allow constant dole bashing threads when many of us are not on the dole by choice?

And in fairness, it's not as if we are going to cover any new ground with these threads, they all go the same way. Even if I thought all dolies were lazy scum (and sure some are, but so are some people who have jobs!), I'd be bored of these threads. Though when I had work I never begrudged anyone their dole, even the lifers, because I know how crap of a life it is.

Does anyone else think maybe it's time we just stopped having these threads? It makes me not want to use boards any more at all when I see them all the time. Or if you still want to have them around so you can stick the cyber-boot into the Dutch Gold drinking bums, would you be okay with just having a separate forum all about dole bashing and leave it out of the other parts of the site?

Couldn't agree more, I'm thankfully working now full time but it's to cover maternity, I think you really see what society is like when ur an employed person, ur treated like sh1t and made to feel like a worthless piece of crap even though u feel like that all already and then u really find out who real friends are as well, I can't understand people who are happy in their jobs why there so concerned about people on the dole, I know when I'm working I just get on with my day go to work and get through life, it's not an unemployed person fault that u have to pay tax, I've been unemployed and worked in the social welfare office and it's the minority who have or never will want a job, most people are doing something and want work..... I wouldn't even entertain people anymore that have a go about unemployed people at the end of the day if anybody got into that position they would be glad to have that money available to them.