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Problem with Garo RCD.

Gautama

There is a Garo RCD in the consumer unit in my garage and it does not appear to be working (no power in sockets either). At present the switch is in the middle position i.e. halfway between On and Off. When I put the switch into the on position or into the off position it will not remain there and it returns to this middle position. Pressing the test button has no effect either.
Does this suggest that the RCD is faulty?

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Randyleprechaun

Push it down fully and then up and that should sort it unless of course you have a permanent fault, in which case it will trip again

Gautama

I've tried this a few times. Pushing it down gives more resistance than pushing it up, ie the "spring back" is stronger on the down position than the up. There are three double sockets on the circuit and two MCBs. Nothing is plugged into any socket and I don't think anything was plugged in when I noticed the problem.

I've tried attaching a picture but I believe attachments are an issue with Boards.ie at the mo'?

2011

It should not reset if there is a fault present.

If I were testing this I would disconnect the cables from the load side of the unit (because I am a qualified electrician). If it can be reset when this is done it would suggest a fault downstream of the RCD is preventing the unit from resetting. If it was still not possible to reset I would conclude that the RCD is faulty.

By the way Garo are not known for producing quality components.

meercat

2 quick checks

1 make sure the rcd isn't fitted upside down

2 turn off main switch fuse and all mcbs and see does it reset now(turn on all mcbs one by one)this may not identify neutral-earth faults.

MackMack

You also mightn't be pushing it down far enough. Push it down untill it clicks into position and then push it back up. Sounds unusual but had me stumped before untill I rang a sparky

jonnner

2011 wrote: »

It should not reset if there is a fault present.

If I were testing this I would disconnect the cables from the load side of the unit (because I am a qualified electrician). If it can be reset when this is done it would suggest a fault downstream of the RCD is preventing the unit from resetting. If it was still not possible to reset I would conclude that the RCD is faulty.

By the way Garo are not known for producing quality components.

Good advice. In fairness though Garo MCB's and RCD's are made in Germany these days and have a 5 year warranty. The older types may have had some problems alright.

Gautama

meercat wrote: »

2 quick checks
1 make sure the rcd isn't fitted upside down

The RCD is right side up. We moved into the house 13 months ago and all was going well 'til about a month ago. I don't use the garage sockets much but noticed they were dead a couple of week ago.

meercat wrote: »

2 quick checks
2 turn off main switch fuse and all mcbs and see does it reset now(turn on all mcbs one by one)this may not identify neutral-earth faults.

I tried this but still no good.

Thanks for the suggestion.

meercat

Ok
Make sure immersion is turned off and double check everything is unplugged (wash machine etc)
Is your heating system turned off too
Most likely n-e fault so you may need an electrician.

Bruthal

Usually if main switch into house is off, and it still won't reset, the RCD is faulty. Not completely certain to be if house is not neutralised though.

An electrician should remove the outgoing cables from the RCD, and check then. Still won't reset, new RCD needed.

If it does reset, a fault on wiring is present. Neutral to earth fault probably.

Gautama

Some good news:

The middle position is not labelled at all, whereas the On and Off positions are labelled (I and O respectively). This is the reason I'm confused by the behaviour of the RCD.
I'd made the (incorrect) assumption that the trip position would be the same as the Off position (as is the case with every MCB I've ever dealt with), and that this middle position was a fault.

I pushed the switch down to the Off position (for the umpteenth time) but I pressed it with much more force this time. Sure enough, it clicked into that position and remained there. Then flicked it up into the On position and everything is hunky-dory again.

I'd have felt like some tool had I called an electrician.

2011

Everyday is a school day

mick111112

just wonder lads does the position of the switch on a RCBO indicate what type of fault it is, like say switch half way down earth leakage and switch fully down current overload. Or is it used to indicate if the RCBO has been intently switched off (switch fully down ) or RCBO tripped (switch half Down). Thanks

Tuco88

Some makes of RCBO's do have such feature to indicate a Earth Fault over a Short Circuit/Overload. I know that the schneider models in the square D panels offer this feature, usually by the flag indicator or the position of the switch down 3/4 ways...

Can anyone clear this up for me? I can never get to the bottom of it I'm not really a domestic Electrician, You are to upgrade an old fuse board lets say it's DZ fuses so on. Main supply is 16mm² cable from 80amp ESB HRC fuse next to the board. You install a new consumer unit do you have an 63Amp MCB or Switch Fuse as your main over-current protection?

I know the method is 63amp MCB in an IP enclosure to an Isolator in the consumer unit for a new install this is not the case tho.

I am aware it states that 533.3.5 states it must be an MCB(which I am stating) personally id rather the Switch fuse. I only ask this because there is a number of us have different views on it and id like to set the record straight. The job will be RECI inspected we are due one so we don't want to give them an inch.

gctest50

Gautama wrote: »

Some good news:

The middle position is not labelled at all, whereas the On and Off positions are labelled (I and O respectively). This is the reason I'm confused by the behaviour of the RCD.
I'd made the (incorrect) assumption that the trip position would be the same as the Off position (as is the case with every MCB I've ever dealt with), and that this middle position was a fault.

I pushed the switch down to the Off position (for the umpteenth time) but I pressed it with much more force this time. Sure enough, it clicked into that position and remained there. Then flicked it up into the On position and everything is hunky-dory again.

I'd have felt like some tool had I called an electrician.

no, no , is new standard

Risteard81

Tuco88 wrote: »

Can anyone clear this up for me? I can never get to the bottom of it I'm not really a domestic Electrician, You are to upgrade an old fuse board lets say it's DZ fuses so on. Main supply is 16mm² cable from 80amp ESB HRC fuse next to the board. You install a new consumer unit do you have an 63Amp MCB or Switch Fuse as your main over-current protection?

I know the method is 63amp MCB in an IP enclosure to an Isolator in the consumer unit for a new install this is not the case tho.

I am aware it states that 533.3.5 states it must be an MCB(which I am stating) personally id rather the Switch fuse. I only ask this because there is a number of us have different views on it and id like to set the record straight. The job will be RECI inspected we are due one so we don't want to give them an inch.

If the tails are more than 3m long then you must have an MCB in IP rated enclosure in the Pirelli Box as the main overcurrent protective device. As you say a switch fuse is better to ensure discrimination/selectivity but unfortunately that's what you have to do.

Tuco88

Risteard81 wrote: »

If the tails are more than 3m long then you must have an MCB in IP rated enclosure in the Pirelli Box as the main overcurrent protective device. As you say a switch fuse is better to ensure discrimination/selectivity but unfortunately that's what you have to do.

There less than a meter, looks like it's an MCB so.

Risteard81

Tuco88 wrote: »

There less than a meter, looks like it's an MCB so.

Why? I said it's only required if they are >3m (not less than!).

Although RECI Inspectors generally like to see it done anyway, but there is no requirement if <3m.

Tuco88

Risteard81 wrote: »

Why? I said it's only required if they are >3m (not less than!).

Although RECI Inspectors generally like to see it done anyway, but there is no requirement if <3m.

I might have put you off a bit my mistake. Basically as per ETCI 533.3.5 page 108 must my main overcurrent device now be an mcb fitted in the panel.. So the good old switch fuse is gone?

Risteard81

Tuco88 wrote: »

I might have put you off a bit my mistake. Basically as per ETCI 533.3.5 page 108 must my main overcurrent device now be an mcb fitted in the panel.. So the good old switch fuse is gone?

As I said, only if the tails exceed 3 metres.

Otherwise a switch fuse can be used in the distribution board.

Tuco88

Risteard81 wrote: »

As I said, only if the tails exceed 3 metres.

Otherwise a switch fuse can be used in the distribution board.

Ok cheers Risteard81, it looks like anther rule I can't understand that makes no sence to me... says mcb but not an mcb...

Risteard81

Tuco88 wrote: »

Ok cheers Risteard81, it looks like anther rule I can't understand that makes no sence to me... says mcb but not an mcb...

It doesn't state MCB except for if the tails exceed 3 metres though.

Tuco88

Risteard81 wrote: »

It doesn't state MCB except for if the tails exceed 3 metres though.

Sorry it's page 106, does it not state at the very start of 533.3.5 no? I'd say I'm taking it wrong.

Risteard81

The bit you are quoting only relates to where the main overcurrent protective device is to be located within the meter cabinet.

Tuco88

Risteard81 wrote: »

The bit you are quoting only relates to where the main overcurrent protective device is to be located within the meter cabinet.

Well that clears up a lot, I miss understood if for domestic dwellings in general. I guess you can use either or. Thank you good sir...