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Strong garda presence at Galway Airport amid illegal Traveller encampment

Juran

http://galwaybayfm.ie/strong-garda-presence-at-galway-airport-amid-illegal-traveller-encampment/

Amazing how the gardaí are showing a 'strong presence' when the travellers set up camp at the airport, but if it were my property or yours or the side of the road, you wouldn't see a garda go near them.

Update: They moved-on today after gardai calling in towing trucks ... this is the first time I have ever heard of gardai doing this .... amazing when it was the airport which is owned by the city council, how powerful the gardai became

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/news/standoff-between-traveller-families-and-gardai-over-camp-at-galway-airport-ends-34447378.html

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jimgoose

end of the road wrote: »

are the general public bigoted toards the average wellfare recipient? after all, some would say they "take take take"...

Maybe you would. The vast majority of social welfare recipients are fine people who find themselves temporarily short of a few shillings. In many a long day's road however I can count on one finger the number of travellers I'd trust as far as I could throw.

Banned

KERSPLAT!

jimgoose wrote: »

Yes, this is understood. It is extremely foolish to have anything to do with travellers in any sort of business or private context, because they display more traits of an in-bred, insane and pathologically narcissistic individual than the average HSE employee.

Mod

This, not OK. Enough of the traveller bashing.

[Deleted User]

Flint Fredstone wrote: »

You keep comparing travellers to social welfare recipients. SW recipients are not an ethnic group. They come from all types of backgrounds and situations.
And yes, people are very critical of the type that have no intention of working and happily pick up their free money each week.

Are Travellers an ethnic group? Serious question here. I know they're on the Census as a separate entity but ethnic group? Maybe it's a special category by themselves rather than a different ''race'', for want of a better word.

Flint Fredstone

Omackeral wrote: »

Are Travellers an ethnic group? Serious question here. I know they're on the Census as a separate entity but ethnic group? Maybe it's a special category by themselves rather than a different ''race'', for want of a better word.

Probably not but I often see them referred to as such.

Asmooh

Omackeral wrote: »

Are Travellers an ethnic group? Serious question here. I know they're on the Census as a separate entity but ethnic group? Maybe it's a special category by themselves rather than a different ''race'', for want of a better word.

Yes, my girlfriend is 'sinti' and there is a group called 'roma' but here in Ireland they just refer to both groups as travellers.

ED E

Culture is fine. You have yours I have mine.

When culture makes your lifestyle incompatible with society you leave or you change. If it were my culture to not wear clothes do you think Id last long before being locked up for indecent exposure? You can't expect society to stay in the 19th century for your benefit.

I would LOVE to see legislation enacted to immitate tokyo, if you can't prove you have somewhere to legally and permanently park a vehicle you can't have one. End of.

muppetkiller

I personally have a few negative experiences with travellers but also a few good ones with those I went to school with, at the end of the day I don't hold them responsible for many of the issues in their community.

The state provides the mechanisms for a number of the traveller issues to exist.
Large families exist because it pays for them to exist.
Leaving school early and getting married early ensures that the next generation will start having large families too. Again continuing the cycle.
Leaving school earlier tends to prevent them taking up high skilled jobs.
Being very young with children in this country actually is a disincentive to get off the dole when you factor in all the benefits associated with it. (And this is seen probably more so in the settled community). Child care costs are extortionate in this country.

With the larger families they need more homes. Like in the settled community social housing needs to be provided in these situations.

As a middle income earner who gets around half of my wages taken in tax each month it infuriates me seeing my taxes going to all young people who could be working. But then I think that if they did work they'd be less well off and not "entitled" to housing etc...I'm trying to save for a mortgage and it's killing me.

The easiest thing to do with all communities in society is that everyone should be brought into the taxation system. If you are a traveller worker or settled person working, even if you are on welfare, every penny you get from the state or earn needs to be brought through revenue. I've heard crazy stories about unemployed families on more than 50k social welfare because of large families and also getting their housing for free. I'd need to be earning nearly 85k to get 50k take home after tax and I'd still need to pay my rent.

Anyway that's my thoughts but having said all that I still think the "entitlement culture" that's present in our society needs to end and I think bringing everyone into the tax system might help that.

The traveller community do need to accept though that they can't just decide to set up shop on private land and expect to stay there. If any member of the settled community did the same thing they'd be promptly and rightly moved on too.

Society doesn't exist to support Travellers needs , it exists to support all communities. So there's a queue of people needing assistance already and travellers need to join the queue like everyone else. They are no more or less deserving than anyone else.

ooops sorry that escalated quickly

[Deleted User]

ED E wrote: »

I would LOVE to see legislation enacted to immitate tokyo, if you can't prove you have somewhere to legally and permanently park a vehicle you can't have one. End of.

I would rather not see laws designed to address Japanese traffic congestion used to kill off any nomadic lifestyle in this part of the world (as in Europe), whether that be Romani, Travellers, Yenish, whatever.

seamus

Deleted User wrote: »

I would rather not see laws designed to address Japanese traffic congestion used to kill off any nomadic lifestyle in this part of the world (as in Europe), whether that be Romani, Travellers, Yenish, whatever.

I agree that Japanese rule is extreme and rather unnecessary, but at the same time laws and rules which are enacted for the good order of society should not contain exemptions and get-out clauses for culture.

There are plenty of people who live nomadic lifestyles in a self-sufficient manner without coming into conflict with the state or indeed other people. But then there are others who not only come into conflict with the state, but they make demands of the state to accommodate their personal choices.

We have this bizarre scenario where people fight for traveller equality on one hand, while on the other hand are demanding that travellers get special treatment in terms of where and how they want to live.

That's not equality. That's very far from equality.

If you cannot live a self-sufficient nomadic lifestyle, then you have to give it up. Don't expect the society to prop up your lifestyle choice with special treatment.

[Deleted User]

seamus wrote: »

I agree that Japanese rule is extreme and rather unnecessary, but at the same time laws and rules which are enacted for the good order of society should not contain exemptions and get-out clauses for culture.

And where the law requires local authorities to provide housing for travellers and yet tens of millions in funding is not drawn down, local authorities should be subject to sanction.

thadg

end of the road wrote: »

are the general public bigoted toards the average wellfare recipient? after all, some would say they "take take take"

course they would. always the excuses.

we are comparing 95% of travellers draining the country for what they can to 10% of the rest of the population in this country

how come they have plenty of money for weddings, funerals and cars???

these are facts that's speak for themselves

[Deleted User]

thadg wrote: »

how come they have plenty of money for weddings, funerals and cars???

these are facts that's speak for themselves

What are the stats on average spending on cars or weddings between travellers and others?

And what should they spend money on? Would spending money on a shoe box apartment in a city centre really be that more valid?

end of the road

thadg wrote: »

we are comparing 95% of travellers draining the country for what they can to 10% of the rest of the population in this country

ah, always in the 90s with the statistics toards the particular disliked group. anyway, that isn't what i asked. what i asked is, are people majorly bigoted toards the average wellfare recipient? and if so, would they be more or less toards them then they would be toards travelers?

thadg

Deleted User wrote: »

What are the stats on average spending on cars or weddings between travellers and others?

And what should they spend money on? Would spending money on a shoe box apartment in a city centre really be that more valid?

who knows for sure, its mainly cash transactions

where is all this money coming from?? 188 a week?

thadg

end of the road wrote: »

ah, always in the 90s with the statistics toards the particular disliked group. anyway, that isn't what i asked. what i asked is, are people majorly bigoted toards the average wellfare recipient? and if so, would they be more or less toards them then they would be toards travelers?

well if anyone is drawing after 3 years the welfare should be halfed unless they are unable to work.

I think the uk has something like that

[Deleted User]

thadg wrote: »

who knows for sure, its mainly cash transactions

where is all this money coming from?? 188 a week?

All what money?

You still haven't given any facts or stats. You made a claim about spending on certain events and referred to "the facts speaking for themselves". I'm merely wondering what the facts are.

As it stands it's as useless an anecdote as me marvelling at all those living in council estates on social welfare going for their 2 holidays in Spain each year and spending their Saturdays in the bookies ie. it is just drawing on a stereotype.

Roger Hassenforder

Deleted User wrote: »

All what money?

You still haven't given any facts or stats. You made a claim about spending on certain events and referred to "the facts speaking for themselves". I'm merely wondering what the facts are.

it would seem travellers have a significant regard for death/funerals.
http://www.ntmabs.org/publications/policy/2013/debt-and-dying-report.pdf
skip to page 98 - not exactly statistically rigorous however.

extracts such as "the demonstration of love and respect throughout the
funeral process that can have significant financial implications.
Respondents consistently referred to the absolute desire for the
best, the importance of doing whatever you can with regard to
the funeral, of not stinting on costs." could apply to non travellers equally I'm sure.

winnie the schtink

the only time you should wink at a traveller

fergiesfolly

I googled it, but couldn't find an answer, so some one here might know..
What infrastructures in place throughout the EU for the Travelling community?
Are there halting sites or Traveller specific accommodation in Holland, Spain or Germany for example?
Also posted in the Galway forum in case you think you've seen this post before

[Deleted User]

winnie the schtink wrote: »

the only time you should wink at a traveller

It's sometimes just jaw dropping to see how blithely Irish people refer to them as "inbred" or "rapists" (as in previous posts) or refer to shooting them...and it's tolerated by so many.

But it's their fault for our references to shooting them...

Galwayguy35

Why can't they be means tested and let the ones with money buy their own land and houses like the rest of us.

I have to pay a mortgage and live on 21 k a year and I get nothing from the state, I'm damn well sure a fair few travellers who get council houses and pay no tax are a lot better off than me.

And the ones who want to go around the place in caravans should fund that lifestyle out of their own pockets.

wexandproud

Deleted User wrote: »

It's sometimes just jaw dropping to see how blithely Irish people refer to them as "inbred" or "rapists" (as in previous posts) or refer to shooting them...and it's tolerated by so many.

But it's their fault for our references to shooting them...

there is uproar when someone refers to travellers as inbred or rapists and personally i feel using those terms is a bit ott even though im no fan of the travelling communities lack of regard for society , however another poster on here on the 'pro traveller' side refers to the inhabitants of of a small village as being slightly inbred and nobody bats an eyelid

regarding the spending on weddings etc , how is it that the first thing someone asks for when this is mentioned is a link to stats .their are not stats to prove or disprove everything out there , all you have to do is open your eyes and its there in front of you ,huge weddings with all the trappings , huge funerals or even go to the graveyards and look at the huge headstones towering above the graveyard .As far as i recall the local authority here tried to put a stop to these constructions being built
in an earlier post you refer to education being a complicated issue .Whats complicated about it , your kid turns 4 or 5 and you send them to school like the settled community do ,however if you go travelling around the country and cant get your kids into a school well then who's fault is that . If i decide to up sticks and move on a regular basis what special treatment would i get. the only time teachers can expect a reasonable attendance from traveller kids is when they are being confirmed or making first communion

Graces7

thadg wrote: »

well if anyone is drawing after 3 years the welfare should be halfed unless they are unable to work.

I think the uk has something like that

Many other countries do as well..Makes sense BUT we need here the same provision if eg food banks they have in every town in the UK and in the US and Canada. No one should be forced to literally go hungry and there is no need for that.

Arbiter of Good Taste

Deleted User wrote: »

What are the stats on average spending on cars or weddings between travellers and others?

And what should they spend money on? Would spending money on a shoe box apartment in a city centre really be that more valid?

I don't know. Here's a few suggestions - tax, rent, education, rubbish removal

wexandproud

Graces7 wrote: »

Many other countries do as well..Makes sense BUT we need here the same provision if eg food banks they have in every town in the UK and in the US and Canada. No one should be forced to literally go hungry and there is no need for that.

don't think anyone has died of the hunger here since the famine and if they did it was probably because of lack of financial awareness rather than lack of money

Neyite

Galwayguy35 wrote: »

Why can't they be means tested and let the ones with money buy their own land and houses like the rest of us.

I have to pay a mortgage and live on 21 k a year and I get nothing from the state, I'm damn well sure a fair few travellers who get council houses and pay no tax are a lot better off than me.

And the ones who want to go around the place in caravans should fund that lifestyle out of their own pockets.

They would argue that buying a home would restrict their nomadic culture.

But what about this:

Hand over all halting sites to Pavee Point to run, then set up a co-operative system where all travellers pay monthly fees into a fund from which the upkeep and maintenance and potential expansion of all halting sites gets paid from, ran by their own council.

This incentivises the occupants to address a lot of anti-social elements within their own communities. But this way, as they have membership of all sites in the co-op, they can move to any halting site in keeping with their nomadic heritage that they like, within guidelines (such as giving notice etc) set down by their own people.

And anyone who has had such anti-social behaviour to the extent that they are evicted from a community site by their own, then they should be put at the very bottom of the County Council's housing list. (Actually that should apply to anyone who destroys a dwelling, private or council rental)

fergiesfolly

Neyite wrote: »

They would argue that buying a home would restrict their nomadic culture.

But what about this:

Hand over all halting sites to Pavee Point to run, then set up a co-operative system where all travellers pay monthly fees into a fund from which the upkeep and maintenance and potential expansion of all halting sites gets paid from, ran by their own council.

This incentivises the occupants to address a lot of anti-social elements within their own communities. But this way, as they have membership of all sites in the co-op, they can move to any halting site in keeping with their nomadic heritage that they like, within guidelines (such as giving notice etc) set down by their own people.

And anyone who has had such anti-social behaviour to the extent that they are evicted from a community site by their own, then they should be put at the very bottom of the County Council's housing list. (Actually that should apply to anyone who destroys a dwelling, private or council rental)

That's a really well thought out and practical idea. I'd actually vote for a political party that came up with that solution.
Looks like I won't be voting so.

Galwayguy35

Neyite wrote: »

They would argue that buying a home would restrict their nomadic culture.

But what about this:

Hand over all halting sites to Pavee Point to run, then set up a co-operative system where all travellers pay monthly fees into a fund from which the upkeep and maintenance and potential expansion of all halting sites gets paid from, ran by their own council.

This incentivises the occupants to address a lot of anti-social elements within their own communities. But this way, as they have membership of all sites in the co-op, they can move to any halting site in keeping with their nomadic heritage that they like, within guidelines (such as giving notice etc) set down by their own people.

And anyone who has had such anti-social behaviour to the extent that they are evicted from a community site by their own, then they should be put at the very bottom of the County Council's housing list. (Actually that should apply to anyone who destroys a dwelling, private or council rental)

That is a good idea, pay for the upkeep of the place you live in like the rest of us.

But sure why would they do that when the council keeps footing the bill and cleaning up the rubbish they throw around for free?

Corvo

Neyite wrote: »

Hand over all halting sites to Pavee Point to run, then set up a co-operative system where all travellers pay monthly fees into a fund from which the upkeep and maintenance and potential expansion of all halting sites gets paid from, ran by their own council.

This incentivises the occupants to address a lot of anti-social elements within their own communities. But this way, as they have membership of all sites in the co-op, they can move to any halting site in keeping with their nomadic heritage that they like, within guidelines (such as giving notice etc) set down by their own people.

And anyone who has had such anti-social behaviour to the extent that they are evicted from a community site by their own, then they should be put at the very bottom of the County Council's housing list. (Actually that should apply to anyone who destroys a dwelling, private or council rental)

This is not really aimed at you Neyite, because reading that, it seems like a decent proposition. However I think you have to factor in that most if not all the travelling community (not so much the settled travellers perhaps) are more than bloody aware among their group of who is at what.

They are already self governing. And I would wager my salary that Pavee Point know it too, yet I doubt they will be turning in any of their own any time soon.

All that would happen is that it would give them a solid base from which they can fund their lifestyles in one area, before moving onto the next. The only difference is that because Pavee Point will now be over it, they would be even more untouchable than they were before.

On another note, seperate to this post. I had to laugh this week at the Dublin gangster being buried and the outrage at the €15,000 coffin he was buried in. Well we all know where that money came from. Yet when a traveller receives a grave from the Tutankhamun selection that cost the same if not more, theres barely a word said from their supporters. They may not murder for it like our Dublin Scarface wanna-be, but you can be damn sure they didn't fund it from a 40 hour week in Supervalue.

BMJD

[Deleted User] wrote: »

It's sometimes just jaw dropping to see how blithely Irish people refer to them as "inbred" or "rapists" (as in previous posts) or refer to shooting them...and it's tolerated by so many.

*some Irish people

You should know better than anyone about generalising.....