Eircode - its implemetation (merged)

this is interesting

https://www.google.com/maps/d/viewer?mid=zrmXDfjvem7g.k2eSAnvagEdQ&hl=en_US

this is interesting

https://www.google.com/maps/d/viewer?mid=zrmXDfjvem7g.k2eSAnvagEdQ&hl=en_US

ukoda

chewed wrote: »

Why don't Garmin or Google have a statement about implementing Eircode? The fact that there's none, leads me to believe that this won't happen in 2016.

Garmin made a public statement on twitter:

https://twitter.com/Garmin/status/630818330941763584

chewed wrote: »

Why don't Garmin or Google have a statement about implementing Eircode? The fact that there's none, leads me to believe that this won't happen in 2016.

read back through the threads, they both have made statements . I know for a fact myself ( I'm in this business) that both Garmin and Google are working in solutions, as to the implementation dates that different, neither see it " as a big thing"

chewed

Why don't Garmin or Google have a statement about implementing Eircode? The fact that there's none, leads me to believe that this won't happen in 2016.

gctest50

An Post DeliveryBox application form uses it

http://www.anpost.ie/AnPost/MainContent/Personal+Customers/Managing+Mail/Parcel+delivery+services/DeliveryBox.htm

ukoda

http://www.truckstopsrouting.com/mapmechanics-launches-truckstops-ireland/

I may have posted this before, but it's well worth a read

hans aus dtschl wrote: »

Thanks for making my point for me!

Sorry Sam, back on topic, does anyone know of any online mapping system using eircode yet, other than Eircode themselves?

Google maps in 2016 sometime. Garmin also. Several third party logistics companies will have Eircode integrated in 2016

BoatMad wrote: »

Why , do computers get tired accessing databases or something ?

Thanks for making my point for me!

Sorry Sam, back on topic, does anyone know of any online mapping system using eircode yet, other than Eircode themselves?

Sam Russell

Mod: Can we get back to discussing implementation of Eircode please.

When are Google, Garmin and TomTom joining the party?

plodder

I don't think online use of credit cards is relevant to this discussion:

a) you don't have much alternative if you want to buy stuff online.

b) consumers are quite well protected anyway, via insurance and charge-backs etc.

xband wrote: »

The example given way back up the thread was about a business that just wanted to simply list the areas it served in a static format.

If you're say doing house painting, you're not going to want or need to be verifying and checking postcodes on a website to see if you serve that area.

That's all that was being said! The idea of postcode database look ups every time you want to figure anything out about an address is a huge limitation of eircode and it will mean it's not going to be as useful as typical postcode systems .

Why , do computers get tired accessing databases or something ?

hans aus dtschl wrote: »

With respect, I was paraphrasing you rather than quoting you. I found your language was inflammatory/condescending, irrespective of who it was aimed at.

Nobody claimed that no business would want or bother with a postcode branch finder.
The exact phrase was "I don't think that you can get potential customers to key in that sort of information, when you're at first-contact (trying to win the potential customers). "
I'll happily stand over that comment. When I visit a website for the first time, I don't automatically think of giving it information. For a big-name well-known brand it's less of an issue, or not an issue at all. For small companies whose brand isn't known, whose website isn't known, it might prove more difficult. Particularly at Eircode rollout stage. When Eircode is more established it will be much easier. Let's not discuss that right now.

Do you only buy from websites of well-established brands or companies? Or do you sometimes buy from small companies whose brand isn't known? I do both and I've no problem entering my credit card or debit card details into the latters' websites, along with all the other contact information that they request to process my order.

Neither do any of the customers who place orders through my website. That's because they can see that my website has security measures, they know that their card details will only be stored temporarily and only for the purpose of processing the transaction and they're confident that I won't have access to those card details after the transaction is complete.

The fact is that much e-commerce is done through the websites of small companies with unknown brands and millions of people use their websites every day without any problems as a result.

Either you're the kind of person who needs to see a well-known company or brand name to trust a website or you're the kind of person who'll trust a small company's website even if you've never heard of them before.

I don't know which type of person is in the majority when it comes to using commercial websites but I know I don't have any complaints about the level of business I got through my own websites, none of which have ever sold well-known branded products and none of which have belonged to well-known companies.

I'm pretty sure that any small business that sells stuff online has much the same experience, unless it's a complete disaster of a business!

If people are willing to trust the website of small businesses with their card details and their contact details I genuinely don't think that kind of person (the kind who is comfortable using the website of a small business to buy products or services) is going to be bothered about giving their Eircode to the kind of small business that they regularly give their card and contact details to.

GJG wrote: »

Except that wasn't what was said.

The claim was made that no business would want or bother with a website postcode branch finder. I provided examples of businesses using it in various other countries, and said that there is no reason to believe that the same won't happen in Ireland.

With respect, I was paraphrasing you rather than quoting you. I found your language was inflammatory/condescending, irrespective of who it was aimed at.

Nobody claimed that no business would want or bother with a postcode branch finder.
The exact phrase was "I don't think that you can get potential customers to key in that sort of information, when you're at first-contact (trying to win the potential customers). "
I'll happily stand over that comment. When I visit a website for the first time, I don't automatically think of giving it information. For a big-name well-known brand it's less of an issue, or not an issue at all. For small companies whose brand isn't known, whose website isn't known, it might prove more difficult. Particularly at Eircode rollout stage. When Eircode is more established it will be much easier. Let's not discuss that right now.

GJG

hans aus dtschl wrote: »

Yes this is not about people knocking the design, it's about some of us saying "you know what would be an easy thing to improve now?"

And we get replies like "[you're] not such a special snowflake that..." It's really strange head-in-the-sand stuff.

Except that wasn't what was said.

GJG wrote: »

I don't think that Ireland is such a special snowflake or that conditions are so different; you can assume the same will be installed on Irish websites over time.

The claim was made that no business would want or bother with a website postcode branch finder. I provided examples of businesses using it in various other countries, and said that there is no reason to believe that the same won't happen in Ireland.

plodder

hans aus dtschl wrote: »

I don't think that you can get potential customers to key in that sort of information, when you're at first-contact (trying to win the potential customers).
IMO this comes back to the same thing about the Eircode website requiring data entry from end-users and how that's a turn-off. Why should every interaction with Eircode have to be reciprocal? It's a service, not a product.
What they currently have implemented is good for some users, who do want to enter information. It's not as good for passive users who want the information "at-a-glance". Or who don't want to or cannot interact with an online database.

or who don't see why you need to provide your own exact address, when searching for more general information about a website. They should only need your rough location not exactly where you live. You might not even be at home at the time. The ideal solution is to offer multiple ways of getting the information, perhaps including queries like that, but it should also include maps and lists of postcode areas. And hierarchical postcodes like the UK's are much better for this, especially when the basic location information is available for free.

You can see how at websites like this one (provided free of charge by some random programmer)

http://www.doogal.co.uk/UKPostcodes.php

You can enter any postcode or partial postcode eg
BT - Northern Ireland
BT21 - the Ards and Donaghadee area
BT21 XXX - some road in the above area

and you will get maps showing the area, and other useful information - all for free. This wouldn't be possible with Eircode for both technical and commercial reasons.

So, in summary I'd say that while support by google maps and satnavs will improve adoption. What will hold it back is:
- the data has to be licensed/paid for, making businesses slower to adopt it, than if it were free
- the random codes are harder to remember
- it's mostly only people in rural areas who have an incentive to actually learn them off

Given that it took decades for people to accept the UK postcode, despite the fact that efficient post delivery depended on it (and I have some sympathy for Eircode on that point), it takes a brave man (or just an anonymous poster on the internet) to make bold predictions about future adoption levels.

Like plenty of posters before me, I don't understand why this is such a red-line issue. We're not all "wrong" or "haters". It's a pretty simple observation IMO.

Indeed.

marmurr1916 wrote: »

I do it quite often in the UK - loads of websites ask for your postcode so they can provide details of your nearest branch for example.

You lost it at this first line.

If you're looking for their nearest branch, it's a vastly different scenario than the small-business locksmith described previously.

Come on, we're not talking about a theoretical scenario here, this is a real-world situation!

And the answer is a simple image of the code areas! Everyone has a vague idea of the counties of Ireland, because they're available in an image.

Think about it, you don't type "Galway" into Google, you go to google maps and move in that direction. When you're really lost, you use the lookup.

Eircode can do exactly the same thing really easily. The map can be free-to-all and teachers can put it up in their classrooms and everything. We're talking about a really simple, virtually no-cost piece of PR here.

Am I really that far in the wrong, or making massively unreasonable demands?

my3cents wrote: »

I support Eircode and think its a good idea but I also think that a big opportunity to promote it when the codes went out was missed.

Yes this is not about people knocking the design, it's about some of us saying "you know what would be an easy thing to improve now?"

And we get replies like "[you're] not such a special snowflake that..." It's really strange head-in-the-sand stuff.

my3cents

marmurr1916 wrote: »

Once it's on Google Maps its adoption will be much more rapid. People will get used to asking other people for their Eircode instead of asking for detailed directions and that'll spur its adoption for other purposes. We've already seen that it's going to be used by Electric Ireland. Nearly everybody gets an electricity bill regularly so most people are going to be receiving post with their Eircode on it regularly, making it more likely that people will remember it and use it.

I support Eircode and think its a good idea but I also think that a big opportunity to promote it when the codes went out was missed.

oscarBravo wrote: »

I just did an IP lookup, and the location it came up with is about 30km from me.

IP lookup is useless for me too - it generally puts me about 30 miles (ca. 50km) from where I actually live.

my3cents wrote: »

The UK had its postcode roll out in 1971 and it was very different from the Irish mess. Basically there was loads of advertising and because the Royal Mail were using the postcode for sorting, it was made quite clear that any mail from then on without a postcode could take longer to deliver because it would need to be hand sorted.

What happened here? Here's your postcode but don't worry no one needs to use it.

As a result I think it will take much longer than necessary for the Irish to accept and start using Eircode.

Once it's on Google Maps its adoption will be much more rapid. People will get used to asking other people for their Eircode instead of asking for detailed directions and that'll spur its adoption for other purposes. We've already seen that it's going to be used by Electric Ireland. Nearly everybody gets an electricity bill regularly so most people are going to be receiving post with their Eircode on it regularly, making it more likely that people will remember it and use it.

my3cents

marmurr1916 wrote: »

I do it quite often in the UK - loads of websites ask for your postcode so they can provide details of your nearest branch for example.

It takes a couple of seconds to type the postcode into a little box.

Perhaps people in Ireland aren't as familiar with such simple website interactions yet but I don't see why there should be any strong resistance to a website that asks potential customers to enter their Eircode so they can either find out if the company serves their area at all or get information about their nearest branch or whatever.

It seems to me that a lot of posters on this thread don't have experience of living in countries where requests for postcodes are routine and unproblematic.

The UK had its postcode roll out in 1971 and it was very different from the Irish mess. Basically there was loads of advertising and because the Royal Mail were using the postcode for sorting, it was made quite clear that any mail from then on without a postcode could take longer to deliver because it would need to be hand sorted.

What happened here? Here's your postcode but don't worry no one needs to use it.

As a result I think it will take much longer than necessary for the Irish to accept and start using Eircode.

oscarBravo

Carawaystick wrote: »

Why would acompany add an eircode lookup when google location services or ip lookup do almost the same job now?

I just did an IP lookup, and the location it came up with is about 30km from me.

Carawaystick

Why would a company add an eircode lookup when google location services or ip lookup do almost the same job now?

Carawaystick

Why would acompany add an eircode lookup when google location services or ip lookup do almost the same job now?

hans aus dtschl wrote: »

I don't think that you can get potential customers to key in that sort of information, when you're at first-contact (trying to win the potential customers).
IMO this comes back to the same thing about the Eircode website requiring data entry from end-users and how that's a turn-off. Why should every interaction with Eircode have to be reciprocal? It's a service, not a product.
What they currently have implemented is good for some users, who do want to enter information. It's not as good for passive users who want the information "at-a-glance". Or who don't want to or cannot interact with an online database.

Like plenty of posters before me, I don't understand why this is such a red-line issue. We're not all "wrong" or "haters". It's a pretty simple observation IMO.

I do it quite often in the UK - loads of websites ask for your postcode so they can provide details of your nearest branch for example.

It takes a couple of seconds to type the postcode into a little box.

Perhaps people in Ireland aren't as familiar with such simple website interactions yet but I don't see why there should be any strong resistance to a website that asks potential customers to enter their Eircode so they can either find out if the company serves their area at all or get information about their nearest branch or whatever.

It seems to me that a lot of posters on this thread don't have experience of living in countries where requests for postcodes are routine and unproblematic.

I'm not sure how entering a simple Eircode (which wouldn't be compulsory anyway - there are other methods available via the UK websites I've used for checking their service areas or finding out branch locations that don't involve use of postcodes) involves 'interacting with a database' in any meaningful sense for a customer, at least not in a way that would bamboozle someone who is able to use the web.

You can choose to type a few characters into a box and the information you're looking for comes up on your screen. If you don't want to enter your Eircode you can probably get the information you're looking for using a map search (f the company's website has this set up) or by browsing through the website to see if there's pages about the company's geographical coverage.

Allowing (not compelling) potential customers to put in their postcode to find out information about the geographical extent and nature of your company's services is not that big a deal really and, with the right software, should be affordable for even very small businesses and could provide them with useful information about where their potential customers live.

As a previous post said, you might end up getting a lot of queries from people with Eircodes that are just outside your existing area of coverage, useful information if you want to consider expanding that area. Even if the Eircodes are within your existing area of coverage, mapping them will allow you to see if there are any particular sub-areas that have a higher rate of queries and for what products/services, which you can assess from how your website is browsed.

plodder

GJG wrote: »

The first three chainstore websites that I took of the top of my head in neighbouring countries Carrefour in France, Lidl in Germany and Argos in the UK, had a feature to enter your postcode and find your closest branch. They were either directly linked from their front page, or in most cases actually on their front page.

I don't think that Ireland is such a special snowflake or that conditions are so different; you can assume the same will be installed on Irish websites over time.

This conversation started out in the context of small businesses though. It was the example of a lock-smith in fact, who came up with this list of postcode areas that they cover. You can't really compare businesses like that with enormous concerns like Carrefour or Lidl, who have huge flexibility and resources at their disposal.

So, rather than Ireland being 'a special snow flake' it's simply a distinction between large businesses and small ones. You would probably find similar small businesses in the UK which cover a limited area, and who just list postcode areas rather than having a query like that on a website. It also remains to be seen how long it takes the Lidls and Argos's to implement it here as well. (7 months later and no sign yet). I also agree with the poster who says forcing people to enter information which they have to go looking for is a turn-off.

GJG

hans aus dtschl wrote: »

I don't think that you can get potential customers to key in that sort of information, when you're at first-contact (trying to win the potential customers).
IMO this comes back to the same thing about the Eircode website requiring data entry from end-users and how that's a turn-off. Why should every interaction with Eircode have to be reciprocal? It's a service, not a product.
What they currently have implemented is good for some users, who do want to enter information. It's not as good for passive users who want the information "at-a-glance". Or who don't want to or cannot interact with an online database.

Like plenty of posters before me, I don't understand why this is such a red-line issue. We're not all "wrong" or "haters". It's a pretty simple observation IMO.

The first three chainstore websites that I took of the top of my head in neighbouring countries Carrefour in France, Lidl in Germany and Argos in the UK, had a feature to enter your postcode and find your closest branch. They were either directly linked from their front page, or in most cases actually on their front page.

I don't think that Ireland is such a special snowflake or that conditions are so different; you can assume the same will be installed on Irish websites over time.

TheChizler

hans aus dtschl wrote: »

IMO this comes back to the same thing about the Eircode website requiring data entry from end-users and how that's a turn-off. Why should every interaction with Eircode have to be reciprocal? It's a service, not a product.

I may not be fully understanding you, but short of them providing you with the entire database to sift through, how else are you supposed to get the Eircode for an address or look up an Eircode without providing information on what you're looking for?