2016 RTE Drama: Rebellion - no spoilers please (mod warning in post #1)

mick malones mauser wrote: »

I haven't a clue what he means Elmo

Could you explain

and "give it a rest" ??

Why the aggressive tone.
Have I been rude or aggressive towards you.?
I think not

Not sure how you can get tone from text. It was not aggressive, exasperated maybe, not aggressive.

You insist on derailing the thread, even more than it already is, with this nonsense.

We were robbed of whatever it was he was talking about before that sentence. Stop pretending like his post was gibberish. You might not agree with the point he made but it's obvious what the point was.

mick malones mauser

Anyway
Back to the Drama
Rebellion is awful rubbish,badly acted,badly researched,bad use of sets and locations,and it has an overabundance of the lesser spotted Gleeson which is never good.

That's my humble opinion,thats where I started on this thread,got distracted by some nonsensical posts so I will leave it at that.
And one last thing chaps,try and get over the old post colonial self loathing,
It can be done and you will be a better person for it.

mick malones mauser wrote: »

Anyway
Back to the Drama
Rebellion is awful rubbish,badly acted,badly researched,bad use of sets and locations,and it has an overabundance of the lesser spotted Gleeson which is never good.

That's my humble opinion,thats where I started on this thread,got distracted by some nonsensical posts so I will leave it at that.
And one last thing chaps,try and get over the old post colonial self loathing,
It can be done and you will be a better person for it.

ok on the question of locations, you do realise they had the use of most of these outdoor locations for a couple of hours at most. Its not so easy to bring places like the GPO to a complete stop at any time, you only get a few hours. The same with the other prominent locations. It wasn't a case of being able to shoot all day and take endless shoots. In this regard its pretty impressive they got any footage at all.

As others have commented, what exactly have you against the Gleesons? They are perfectly fine actors. I'd prefer one of them to yet another actor from Love/Hate (I know he had a minor role in Love/Hate).

Lisha

This thread could have been great and really useful but as usual it has been ruined by too many pompous people talking crap.
Shock horror must Irish people don't know the full facts of the rising but why'd would you try to learn when you get the nonsense that's been going on in here.
Thanks to those who recommended books I'll look those up in future.

wawaman

mick malones mauser wrote: »

Anyway
Back to the Drama
Rebellion is awful rubbish,badly acted,badly researched,bad use of sets and locations,and it has an overabundance of the lesser spotted Gleeson which is never good.

Sorry for posting this in a history forum but does anyone know if there are any Gleesons featuring in this?

[Deleted User]

Shurimgreat wrote: »

ok on the question of locations, you do realise they had the use of most of these outdoor locations for a couple of hours at most. Its not so easy to bring places like the GPO to a complete stop at any time, you only get a few hours. The same with the other prominent locations. It wasn't a case of being able to shoot all day and take endless shoots. In this regard its pretty impressive they got any footage at all.

As others have commented, what exactly have you against the Gleesons? They are perfectly fine actors. I'd prefer one of them to yet another actor from Love/Hate (I know he had a minor role in Love/Hate).

Minor actor?? He was a big part of season 1 and I would say his excellent portrayal of Hughie set the basis for the show going forward. The man is a superb talent.

Plus love/hate was a major hit with peak viewership of 1m...there is a reason their actors are in demand

KingBrian2

Shurimgreat wrote: »

Good points. 1916 was ultimately a failure. The guerilla war that followed under the direction of Collins was far more successful. We were never going to beat the Brits in a toe to toe stand off as happened in the Rising. We had a far better chance using Collins methods, hit and run, ambushes, hitting rural police barracks and so on. And it is strange how the War of Independence is not celebrated as much. I think you are right about Dev being responsible for highlighting 1916 and ignoring much of what followed. The Treaty was probably still divisive, even in 1966.

The peace treaty was essential for the long term survival of the state and it was the 1916 Proclamation issued during the rising that gave the likes of Collins, Griffith & others the legitimacy to speak for Ireland. Britain could not deny the near universal consent of the Dail Éireann to negotiate a peace agreement with the British authorities. The proclamation and the public endorsement of Sinn Féin policies gave them all the support they needed. The events at the GPO staged on Sunday April 23 was of great historical importance.

KingBrian2 wrote: »

The peace treaty was essential for the long term survival of the state and it was the 1916 Proclamation issued during the rising that gave the likes of Collins, Griffith & others the legitimacy to speak for Ireland. Britain could not deny the near universal consent of the Dail Éireann to negotiate a peace agreement with the British authorities. The proclamation and the public endorsement of Sinn Féin policies gave them all the support they needed. The events at the GPO staged on Sunday April 23 was of great historical importance.

Not sure anything happened at the GPO on Sunday.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uJqEKYbh-LU

KingBrian2 wrote: »

The peace treaty was essential for the long term survival of the state and it was the 1916 Proclamation issued during the rising that gave the likes of Collins, Griffith & others the legitimacy to speak for Ireland. Britain could not deny the near universal consent of the Dail Éireann to negotiate a peace agreement with the British authorities. The proclamation and the public endorsement of Sinn Féin policies gave them all the support they needed. The events at the GPO staged on Sunday April 23 was of great historical importance.

In theory, yes but it's interesting that the era around the Free State coming into existence has been airbrushed out of Irish history. I bet many Irish people would struggle to identify December 6, 1922 as the day we won our independence. This was of course because there was a huge split in Irish nationalism at that time and many considered the new Irish state a form of treachery and a sell out of the men of 1916.

So it suited them in 1966 to put the Easter Rising to the forefront and to glorify it's leaders. From what I can see, the name of Michael Collins doesn't seem to have featured much in the 1966 commemorations even though we know he was in the GPO : it was all Pearse and Connolly and Clarke etc.

Stojkovic

KingBrian2 wrote: »

The Germans were not the only war nation to commit war crimes. Japan, USSR and Britain committed atrocities themselves.

Indeed.
There were more French civilians killed by the Allies in the 6 months after D-Day than by the Nazis in 4 years of occupation. Not to mention rape and pillage.

The Rape of Lucretia

Stojkovic wrote: »

Indeed.
There were more French civilians killed by the Allies in the 6 months after D-Day than by the Nazis in 4 years of occupation. Not to mention rape and pillage.

The_Morrigan

Shurimgreat wrote: »

ok on the question of locations, you do realise they had the use of most of these outdoor locations for a couple of hours at most. Its not so easy to bring places like the GPO to a complete stop at any time, you only get a few hours. The same with the other prominent locations. It wasn't a case of being able to shoot all day and take endless shoots. In this regard its pretty impressive they got any footage at all.

As others have commented, what exactly have you against the Gleesons? They are perfectly fine actors. I'd prefer one of them to yet another actor from Love/Hate (I know he had a minor role in Love/Hate).

Actually....last year RTE shut down O Connell street and brought it back in time to 1916. They called it something like the Road to the Rising. They had lots of people in costumes, stalls, the tram and other vehicles and they invited the public to attend this family day out for a few hours. For the rest of the time they had the place in lock down they were filming as all the extras were milling about with their props etc.

The_Morrigan wrote: »

Actually....last year RTE shut down O Connell street and brought it back in time to 1916. They called it something like the Road to the Rising. They had lots of people in costumes, stalls, the tram and other vehicles and they invited the public to attend this family day out for a few hours. For the rest of the time they had the place in lock down they were filming as all the extras were milling about with their props etc.

That's only one day though. The problem with shooting in real locations, particularly urban ones, is you have a limited amount of time to get your shots especially if you have a limited budget too. You may end up having to use shots you're not entirely happy with because going back and shooting again isn't possible.
I noticed that bar the one wide shot of O'Connell St. in the first episode they haven't really shown it. The camera was super tight on Pearse when he was reading the proclamation and most of the exterior shots of the GPO are the same.

The_Morrigan

TICKLE_ME_ELMO wrote: »

That's only one day though. The problem with shooting in real locations, particularly urban ones, is you have a limited amount of time to get your shots especially if you have a limited budget too. You may end up having to use shots you're not entirely happy with because going back and shooting again isn't possible.
I noticed that bar the one wide shot of O'Connell St. in the first episode they haven't really shown it. The camera was super tight on Pearse when he was reading the proclamation and most of the exterior shots of the GPO are the same.

It was over Easter weekend. The place was shut down for set up a lot.

The_Morrigan wrote: »

It was over Easter weekend. The place was shut down for set up a lot.

It's weird we haven't seen that much of it then. Like I said, other than the wide shots in the first episode and a couple of establishing shots with the tram with no tracks we've hardly seen O'Connell St.

The_Morrigan

TICKLE_ME_ELMO wrote: »

It's weird we haven't seen that much of it then. Like I said, other than the wide shots in the first episode and a couple of establishing shots with the tram with no tracks we've hardly seen O'Connell St.

True, but that was the best weekend to do the interior shots of the GPO...Good Friday through Easter Monday wouldn't have a lot of opening hours and with all the rabble outside they had the opportunity to get as much done as possible.
Plus it takes hours and hours just to get a few minutes of usable footage. There has already been mention of bad edits from footage taken.

TICKLE_ME_ELMO wrote: »

It's weird we haven't seen that much of it then. Like I said, other than the wide shots in the first episode and a couple of establishing shots with the tram with no tracks we've hardly seen O'Connell St.

Looks like they only got a portion of O'Connell Street closed down that day, about 150 yards or so around the GPO. They did manage to get a CGI version of Nelson's Pillar in : we saw it behind May as she walked past the GPO on the way to work.

The Rape of Lucretia

jmcc wrote: »

pro-British revisionists like Cruise O'Brien, Harris, Ruth Dudley Edwards and by the Dublin media (RTE/Irish Times/Malta Independent).

revisionist "British" propagandists like Conor Cruise O'Brien, Eoghan Harris, Ruth Dudley Edwards and their ilk and have no understanding of Irish history and do not even realise how offensive RTE's Down Town Abbey really is to people outside the Montrose fundament.

Regards...jmcc

Dont think I have read any of these, let alone twice.

And certainly dont have a bee in my bonnet about them.

Why the hostility ? And the 'offence' (usually a handy warning word that there are a few truths causing uncomfortable cognitive dissonances that the hearer would rather not acknowledge) ? Maybe revisionism is indeed correct in its analysis, and improves on the biased orthodoxy created by those far from impartial on the events ?

The TV series is pretty balanced I think, with all the limitations of budget, time, and medium. It certainly doesnt have a particular axe to grind, whether deifying the martyrs giving birth to a free nation, or vilifying terrorists, murderers, and traitors diverting the future of millions of people by force.

TCDStudent1

The_Morrigan wrote: »

It was over Easter weekend. The place was shut down for set up a lot.

Pretty sure it said in one of the extras pieces they only had O'Connell Street for 1 day. They mentioned it because it poured rain on the day they had it while in 1916, there was a heat wave during Easter week.

TCDStudent1 wrote: »

Pretty sure it said in one of the extras pieces they only had O'Connell Street for 1 day. They mentioned it because it poured rain on the day they had it while in 1916, there was a heat wave during Easter week.

Yes, you can see in these two photos of British Army barricades in Dublin that the weather appears to be warm and sunny :

http://cf.broadsheet.ie/wp-content/uploads/2014/08/143.jpg

http://www.irishtimes.com/polopoly_fs/1.1885072.1406905434!/image/image.jpg_gen/derivatives/box_620_330/image.jpg

There's been a number of outdoor scenes though. Dublin Castle featured in several scenes. Mount Street. GPO. Trinity College. And several other areas, all pretty popular with Dubliners and tourists alike. I'd imagine a lot of these scenes were rushed and they didn't have scope for endless takes to get it right.

Hippo

Of course they didn't have time for extra takes, but that doesn't explain the laboured script and sheer lack of drama throughout the series. It's just a poor piece of work and a badly missed opportunity to produce something really worthwhile on the subject.

The Black Oil

I enjoyed the fourth episode, seemed closer to the mark. However, I still have trouble naming some of the characters and have to recheck IMDB. In contrast, this is generally not something I experience with subtitled dramas such as The Bridge.

Hippo wrote: »

Of course they didn't have time for extra takes, but that doesn't explain the laboured script and sheer lack of drama throughout the series. It's just a poor piece of work and a badly missed opportunity to produce something really worthwhile on the subject.

Another docu-drama you mean? Focusing mainly on the leaders of the Rising and their motives?

Hippo wrote: »

Of course they didn't have time for extra takes, but that doesn't explain the laboured script and sheer lack of drama throughout the series. It's just a poor piece of work and a badly missed opportunity to produce something really worthwhile on the subject.

RTE's managing director pointed out this week that Rebellion has done far better in the ratings than the first series of Love Hate.

Certainly it could have been better, but I wouldn't agree at all that this is a poor or bad drama series.

jmcc

The Rape of Lucretia wrote: »

Why the hostility ?

To quote Edmund Burke, the only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.

Well good men and women did something. They did something in 1916 to right the wrongs of an unjust and parasitical society. Some paid for it with their lives. But Cruise O'Brien, Harris and Edwards were intent on pushing their own anti-Irish views and they were facilitated by a corrupt, modern day Dublin media no different to that, apart from the names, of William Martin Murphy era.

And the 'offence' (usually a handy warning word that there are a few truths causing uncomfortable cognitive dissonances that the hearer would rather not acknowledge) ? Maybe revisionism is indeed correct in its analysis, and improves on the biased orthodoxy created by those far from impartial on the events ?

History is History and at the centre of these events are people. But what has been pushed over the last fifty years or so has been a politically motivated bunch of lies where History was replaced by propaganda.

The events in the North allowed such anti-Irish propagandists free rein in the Dublin media and it was facilitated by the subversion of RTE by Harris and his Workers Party gang (the Ned Stapleton cumman) pushing an extremist interpretation of Section 31 so that any mention of Irish independence was removed and any Irish journalists who didn't follow the pro-British line were fired or bullied out of the RTE so that the malignant pus of the "revisionist" propagandists and zelebrity churnalists and "commentators" could ooze out to an unsuspecting Irish population who expected accurate reporting and journalism. A free press is essential for democracy and Ireland did not have a free press.

The TV series is pretty balanced I think, with all the limitations of budget, time, and medium.

That's your opinion and you are entitled to it. This is a republic, after all. The series is more Down Town Abbey than any attempt to treat the Rising fairly. It is not well written. It is cliche ridden and the "limitations of budget, time and medium" are just excuses.

It certainly doesnt have a particular axe to grind, whether deifying the martyrs giving birth to a free nation, or vilifying terrorists, murderers, and traitors diverting the future of millions of people by force.

Eoghan Harris, in a laughable interview on TV3, used much the same line when describing the people of 1916 as "suicide bombers". The problem with the writing of Down Town Abbey is that its plot and characters could be reapplied, with a quick costume change, to a drama about flooding or an incident in Carrickstown without anyone really noticing.

Regards...jmcc

jmcc wrote: »

To quote Edmund Burke, the only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.

Well good men and women did something. They did something in 1916 to right the wrongs of an unjust and parasitical society. Some paid for it with their lives. But Cruise O'Brien, Harris and Edwards were intent on pushing their own anti-Irish views and they were facilitated by a corrupt, modern day Dublin media no different to that, apart from the names, of William Martin Murphy era.

History is History and at the centre of these events are people. But what has been pushed over the last fifty years or so has been a politically motivated bunch of lies where History was replaced by propaganda.

The events in the North allowed such anti-Irish propagandists free rein in the Dublin media and it was facilitated by the subversion of RTE by Harris and his Workers Party gang (the Ned Stapleton cumman) pushing an extremist interpretation of Section 31 so that any mention of Irish independence was removed and any Irish journalists who didn't follow the pro-British line were fired or bullied out of the RTE so that the malignant pus of the "revisionist" propagandists and zelebrity churnalists and "commentators" could ooze out to an unsuspecting Irish population who expected accurate reporting and journalism. A free press is essential for democracy and Ireland did not have a free press.

That's your opinion and you are entitled to it. This is a republic, after all. The series is more Down Town Abbey than any attempt to treat the Rising fairly. It is not well written. It is cliche ridden and the "limitations of budget, time and medium" are just excuses.

Eoghan Harris, in a laughable interview on TV3, used much the same line when describing the people of 1916 as "suicide bombers". The problem with the writing of Down Town Abbey is that its plot and characters could be reapplied, with a quick costume change, to a drama about flooding or an incident in Carrickstown without anyone really noticing.

Regards...jmcc

So you want a hagiography of the Rising and the leaders?

We are in Ireland here, not Russia. The writers are free to give any view they want, and in particular free to give a nuanced view of it.

Unfortunately a lot of people don't share your idyllic view of the Rising. Some are more balanced in their assessment.

The Rising leaders, while noble in their aspirations, were foolish in their method of execution. It was all a big PR stunt and in truth they ultimately won the PR battle but at the cost of hundreds of innocent lives. There wasn't a hope in hell of securing liberty for Ireland the way they acted.

The only thing that turned it in their favour was their own execution, creating martyrs out of them. The British hardly covered themselves in glory here too.

Altogether an unbiased view of it was the Rising was anarchic, poorly executed and both the rebels and British made a lot of silly mistakes. Rebellion pretty much captures this well, which is something ultra nationalists like yourself can't accept.

Do you know what I'd love to see done?

A what if the British hadn't executed the leaders version of Ireland but maybe set in the present day, or even the 50's.

I know TV3 are doing the what if they were put on trial aspect but I doubt they'll go too far beyond a trial.

Leaders aren't executed, tide of opinion doesn't shift towards the rebels. War of Independence isn't supported, Bloody Sunday (Croke Park) doesn't happen, maybe no treaty, maybe different terms?

Maybe the British realise they have to change how they deal with Ireland. Maybe they crack down, maybe they ease up. Maybe home rule followed by civil war. Maybe everything that happened in Northern Ireland still happens but with the roles reversed? Catholic nationalists oppress Protestant Unionists, Ian Paisley is organising Civil Rights marches instead of forming opposition to them.

Maybe we just slowly become British and end up having a Scottish style referendum in 2014 to decide if we want to leave the Union or not. We panick about what currency we'll use if we do leave the union and end up staying in it.

Yeah... I want to see that program.