plodder wrote: » I disagree and there is a simple explanation. Eircode could have been designed in such a way that it does everything that it does today, but with a hierarchical structure exposing small areas as part of the code. Please show me some use case that would not be covered by this. Any use case that does not suit the area structure directly provided by the code, does exactly what it has to do today with the ECAD/ECAF
xband wrote: » From that I hear "weird, technically complex system in small country. "
Sam Russell wrote: » I was talking to a guy in An Post and I asked if they use Eircode. He said they were trialling the sorting bit but the random design meant the average postie would not be able to memorise all the codes and so would be useless for that. He also said a structured code would have been much better. I also contacted Garmin and they said: From that, I think the collaboration is not with Captiva but Navteq, I presume.
GJG wrote: » The Eircode design has taken extraordinary steps to make sure that properties with similar addresses have starkly different Eircodes. A one- or even two-character differentiation just isn't enough in real-world settings where things get mumbled, mistaken or scribbled down. This covers all houses in the same street or townland, but also cases like having five Warrentowns (or similar) in Co Meath. Each address in all of them has a starkly different Eircode. It means that when a bank statement is sent out to J Murphy, Old Bog Road, it goes to the Johnny like it should, not Jimmy down the road a bit. If you genuinely can't see an advantage in that that outweighs the needs of an insurance company trying to re-invent the wheel on the cheap, then there is little more to say. We disagree.
Read what gctest50 says above and think which side of history you are on. Do you really think that all these computers and smartphone yokemebobs are just a passing fad?
Sam Russell wrote: » I also contacted Garmin and they said: From that, I think the collaboration is not with Captiva but Navteq, I presume.
plodder wrote: » I disagree and there is a simple explanation. Eircode could have been designed in such a way that it does everything that it does today, but with a hierarchical structure exposing small areas as part of the code.Please show me some use case that would not be covered by this. Any use case that does not suit the area structure directly provided by the code, does exactly what it has to do today with the ECAD/ECAF
Sam Russell wrote: » I was talking to a guy in An Post and I asked if they use Eircode. He said they were trialling the sorting bit but the random design meant the average postie would not be able to memorise all the codes and so would be useless for that. .......
Speeding charge dropped after court hears five people had same name as accused John Boyce says 22 families share his surname in single Donegal townland He told Judge Alan Mitchell there was an issue with letters sometimes getting mixed up in the area as there were 22 families with the same surname as him living in the same townland. To make matters even more complicated, up to five different people also had the same first name as him .http://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/courts/district-court/speeding-charge-dropped-after-court-hears-five-people-had-same-name-as-accused-1.2391779
GJG wrote: » Plodder, I'm acknowledging that the scenario that you outline is correct, but I don't think that you are giving reasonable weight to how narrow the case you outline is, and how broad the implications for the system would be if you sacrificed other features to meet this very narrow requirement. First, the only advantage that the UK system has (as you see it) is grouping up to 26 properties in a cluster that is rational for post delivery, not necessarily anything else. There is nothing to stop Irish operators from collecting Eircodes in their own database too, just the clustering information isn't evident. Changing the Irish system to accommodate the subset of insurance companies that won't fork out a few grand to licence the database would mean that (be it with a sequential or hierarchical system) increasing proximity would mean increasing similarity of postcode, to the point that side-by-side addresses have identical postcodes as in the UK. To me, it is blindingly obvious that is a bad idea in a country with 40 per cent of addresses otherwise non-unique. The reasons have been thrashed out at great length on the other thread, I won't go through them again. Maybe you don't accept them, that's fine, but a decision had to be made and, to me, it would have been grossly perverse to make it any differently. But the bottom line is that it's not possible for a multi-use system to be optimised for all uses. Finding a single narrow example of a change that would suit one application is not proof of a mistake in the design.
Does my automotive device support the new Eircode postal code system in Ireland? 08/27/2015 Garmin is aware of Ireland’s new postal code system, called Eircode. This system has not yet been incorporated into City Navigator mapping. We are working to establish a solution in order to provide the Eircode search capability in our devices. Eircodes are formatted and structured differently than postal codes in other countries. Garmin is collaborating with our map data provider to determine how we can best offer the use of Eircodes to our customers.
plodder wrote: » This is what's so frustrating about this, as I've explained this several times before. A UK insurance company can build up a database of its own customers' postcodes without having to license anything. I really mean nothing at all. Nothing whatsoever, of any description. You do not have to pay anyone to keep a list of postcodes. Then the company gets claims in the door. If a large pattern of claims emerge from the same postcode, or from higher level areas, these can be assessed and risk levels established for setting future premiums. You can't do this with Eircode without licensing the ECAD (or ECAF) because :- a) Eircodes are unique per property b) they are random meaning the patterns aren't discernible without having the database But you can do it in the UK without having to license anything. You don't need to know the locations or anything else about the postcodes. You can glean all of this from the structure of the code and the codes themselves.
plodder wrote: » .........a) Eircodes are unique per property b) they are random meaning the patterns aren't discernible without having the database But you can do it in the UK without having to license anything. You don't need to know the locations or anything else about the postcodes. you said it yourself - Eircodes identify individual properties - 21st century stuff that plodder wrote: » You can glean all of this from the structure of the code and the codes themselves. how quaint, we have smartphones and nice things here: The figures indicate that we use our smartphones for internet activity more than any other western country........ The proportion of web traffic on phones here is almost a third higher than the European average.It is also a quarter higher than in the UK. It is even higher than mobile-mad Finland, home of Nokia and a birthplace of smartphones.https://bit.ly/1NVTJN2 Anyway back to future implemetation by An Post and others land Revenue.ie finding shadowy landlords : In the first four months of this year the rental sector (€10 million) was responsible for the biggest source of unpaid tax,The availability of new sources of data, such as the property tax register and the home renovation incentive scheme, is helping Revenue to target those most likely to have tax liabilities.http://www.irishtimes.com/business/revenue-targets-rental-sector-as-part-of-crackdown-1.2316446
plodder wrote: » You can glean all of this from the structure of the code and the codes themselves.
The figures indicate that we use our smartphones for internet activity more than any other western country........ The proportion of web traffic on phones here is almost a third higher than the European average.It is also a quarter higher than in the UK. It is even higher than mobile-mad Finland, home of Nokia and a birthplace of smartphones.https://bit.ly/1NVTJN2
In the first four months of this year the rental sector (€10 million) was responsible for the biggest source of unpaid tax,The availability of new sources of data, such as the property tax register and the home renovation incentive scheme, is helping Revenue to target those most likely to have tax liabilities.http://www.irishtimes.com/business/revenue-targets-rental-sector-as-part-of-crackdown-1.2316446
plodder wrote: » The same companies will license the PAF for different things like address validation. But, not all usages of a postcode require address validation. So, why should you have to license something you don't want or need? The whole point is not aimed at big commercial entities like insurance companies clearly. It's more for small businesses (who in the UK don't likely license the PAF) or voluntary organisations etc.
ukoda wrote: » So then Royal Mail must make preciously zero income from their licenced products. Like why would anyone pay for it so? Why do they even have a product you licence. The frustrating part is how simplistic you try to make it.
ukoda wrote: » Except that kind of use incurs a licence fee in the UK too.http://www.poweredbypaf.com/getting-started/find-a-ready-made-solution/http://www.poweredbypaf.com/faqs/ As you know, the only thing that's free with the U.K. Postcode is the code and it's geo. nothing else.
plodder wrote: » except they have to pay to license the ECAD, whereas this kind of analysis using an open postcode like the UK's costs nothing.
ukoda wrote: » I would imagine the insurance companies here will do the same pretty quick too, the ECAD has the small areas in it allowing this kind of functionality. But this will all be done behind the scenes and we as general public will probably not know much about it
plodder wrote: » I would imagine that even with very primitive IT systems, insurance companies and others would have made extensive use of the UK postcode, right from the start and not just for addressing mail. They would have collected statistics relating to claims and organised it by postcode which allowed them to assess different kinds of risk for other households in the same areas.
my3cents wrote: » afaik the postcode came in with automated sorting. Even Blue Peter had stuff about it on the program, it was all over the news and there was a massive advertising campaign. At the time there was no internet and communication was by phone or mail so not a lot of other opportunity for use. Your address included your postcode so of course when you phoned up to order something you were asked for your postcode.
ukoda wrote: » I think they mean other areas of use not just postal addresses, the U.K. Postcode now is asked for everywhere for a wide variety of reasons, it took that level of familiarity decades to achieve
my3cents wrote: » Don't agree, I was in the UK when it was first introduced and the take up was very quick. You were told your postcode and told to use it. Also told that if you didn't your mail would have to be sorted by hand and be delayed so there was an incentive to use it.
xband wrote: » If you consider how long it took the UK's postcodes to be fully adopted, I'd say eircode has a bit of time. I've heard a bit of confusion already about the word 'eircode' though. A lot of people seem to think it has something to do with the phone as it sounds like an eircom product. Poor choice of TM.
ukoda wrote: » Already in other thread but Garmin working on a solution for their sat navshttps://twitter.com/garmin/status/630818330941763584
gizmo555 wrote: » Read the thread.
TheChizler wrote: » Link?
gizmo555 wrote: » At the moment, 0%.
petronius wrote: » what % of post is processed using eircode?
