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Eircode - its implemetation (merged)

beveragelady

I called An Post today to try to sort out a problem with deliveries. The customer service chap was very helpful and I think it all got sorted.
The thing is, I tried to give him my Eircode because I live at a vague rural address but he said that they're not using them because the system isn't set up.
Amazed!
It's bad enough that they're no good to users of satnavs or google maps, but this is just astonishing. Can anybody explain how this could have been launched to such fanfare when it's all but meaningless?

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ukoda

For anyone who is in doubt. Here it is direct "from the horses mouth" of a sat nav company. So I've no reason to believe the same isn't true for Google maps. Have you?

https://twitter.com/garmin/status/630818330941763584

ukoda

Already in other thread but Garmin working on a solution for their sat navs

https://twitter.com/garmin/status/630818330941763584

BoatMad

ukoda wrote: »

Goes to show how reliable the claim of "eircode won't be on google maps this year" coming from a poster who doesn't even know the correct name of the postcode operator

I know who it is , I should perhaps pay more attention to how I spell it. None of this diminishes what I said , it's just a form of ad hominem attack

BoatMad

ukoda wrote: »

It shows don't believe anything you read on the Internet without a credible source.

There is evidence that Google ARE talking to capita about eircode. Google themselves confirmed it when asked at another unrelated conference last year, as have eircode themselves confirmed they are in talks with Google and other digital mapping companies

Given the two posts show both Google and Garmin are considering eircode , can you point to any error of substance in my original claim

Or would you just prefer to " play the man " rather then the ball when clearly you havent a leg to stand on

ukoda

BoatMad wrote: »

Given the two posts show both Google and Garmin are considering eircode , can you point to any error of substance in my original claim

Or would you just prefer to " play the man " rather then the ball when clearly you havent a leg to stand on

I've no issue with your posts at all? In fact I'm backing them up with evidence.

My "don't believe everything to read on the Internet" comment wasn't directed at yourself really, just a general comment that people can claim anything in an Internet forum, in this case you happen to be right and it's backed up by the posts I've made. There was no offence meant. I'm in full agreement with you. Eircode definitely will be on Google maps and sat navs

plodder

ukoda wrote: »

For anyone who is in doubt. Here it is direct "from the horses mouth" of a sat nav company. So I've no reason to believe the same isn't true for Google maps. Have you?

https://twitter.com/garmin/status/630818330941763584

"working in conjunction with" is a classic holding statement. Sure, they'd like to support it, but only if the cost is right, and the business case for Garmin will be different from google, given that google provide their services for free, whereas garmin can charge separately for additional functions like postcode support.

ukoda

plodder wrote: »

"working in conjunction with" is a classic holding statement. Sure, they'd like to support it, but only if the cost is right, and the business case for Garmin will be different from google, given that google provide their services for free, whereas garmin can charge separately for additional functions like postcode support.

And I'm sure you'll be here when I post the statement "Garmin have introduced eircode" to tell me that sur "introduced" could mean anything.

And by the way, I've asked eircode (a few times) by email "what's your product for mapping" I was kinda stonewalled as I assume they want to get the big boys sorted before entertaining anyone else. But the feeling I'm getting, in fact it's more than a feeling, I was told, it won't be a per transaction licence model. One can only assume it will be a flat annual fee for the data and the likes of Google and Garmin would just absorb the cost as an operational expense, much like they did when they bought the geodirectory. There was never a mention of productS they always spoke using the terminology our "digital mapping product" is still being worked on

L1011

GerardKeating wrote: »

Weird, for some reason, I keep thinking they are part of An Post?

That's onedirect, recently renamed Post Insurance

plodder

ukoda wrote: »

And I'm sure you'll be here when I post the statement "Garmin have introduced eircode" to tell me that sur "introduced" could mean anything.

That's silly. If garmin release a product, then nobody is going to claim they haven't. It's just that you and another poster (the one who is calling people Eircode begrudgers) are calling for people to backup claims made about third party support for Eircode, and your last post said:

Eircode definitely will be on Google maps and sat navs

Not hopefully, or even subject to license discussions, which could actually come to nothing, but definitely.

ukoda

plodder wrote: »

That's silly. If garmin release a product, then nobody is going to claim they haven't. It's just that you and another poster (the one who is calling people Eircode begrudgers) are calling for people to backup claims made about third party support for Eircode, and your last post said:

Not hopefully, or even subject to license discussions, which could actually come to nothing, but definitely.

It's an Internet forum, everything we say is our opinion unless we have a source of proof.

It's my opinion that it definitely will be on Google and sat navs, that opinion is based on the FACT that mapping / sat nav are in talks with eircode, something I can prove from an official source.

The fact they are talking means there's definitely a deal to be done

Sam Russell

Mod: @Plodder and @ukoda - Cut it out.

xband

Until it's on Google maps, Apple Maps, Garmin and others it will not see much use at all.

Google maps is key as so many websites and other applications hang off it for mapping.

plodder

xband wrote: »

Until it's on Google maps, Apple Maps, Garmin and others it will not see much use at all.

Google maps is key as so many websites and other applications hang off it for mapping.

I agree. It doesn't exist today. That is a fact. We can speculate all we like, but it doesn't exist today.

Garmin is probably an easy case for them. It is a closed system only used for satnav. google is more problematic given that maps is a complete platform for applications of its own, with its own APIs, commercial and free licenses etc.

petronius

What % of people use the eircode?
what % of post is processed using eircode?

I did not use an eircode on any Christmas card I sent, and christ accounts form maybe three quarters of the mail I send.

gizmo555

petronius wrote: »

what % of post is processed using eircode?

At the moment, 0%.

TheChizler

gizmo555 wrote: »

At the moment, 0%.

Link?

gizmo555

TheChizler wrote: »

Link?

Read the thread.

TheChizler

gizmo555 wrote: »

Read the thread.

I have from the start. There's been no official An Post source saying they're not used at all to process post.

GerardKeating

ukoda wrote: »

Already in other thread but Garmin working on a solution for their sat navs

https://twitter.com/garmin/status/630818330941763584

that post is from August, one would think it be ready by now ?

Bray Head

You would think that Google Maps should get a pretty good deal on licensing from Capita, for the first few years of course.

I can't think of anything that would spur eircode adoption faster than its availability on Google Maps. In the long run of course it's in Capita's interest that usage is as widespread as possible.

xband

If you consider how long it took the UK's postcodes to be fully adopted, I'd say eircode has a bit of time.

I've heard a bit of confusion already about the word 'eircode' though. A lot of people seem to think it has something to do with the phone as it sounds like an eircom product.

Poor choice of TM.

my3cents

xband wrote: »

If you consider how long it took the UK's postcodes to be fully adopted, I'd say eircode has a bit of time.

I've heard a bit of confusion already about the word 'eircode' though. A lot of people seem to think it has something to do with the phone as it sounds like an eircom product.

Poor choice of TM.

Don't agree, I was in the UK when it was first introduced and the take up was very quick. You were told your postcode and told to use it. Also told that if you didn't your mail would have to be sorted by hand and be delayed so there was an incentive to use it.

ukoda

my3cents wrote: »

Don't agree, I was in the UK when it was first introduced and the take up was very quick. You were told your postcode and told to use it. Also told that if you didn't your mail would have to be sorted by hand and be delayed so there was an incentive to use it.

I think they mean other areas of use not just postal addresses, the U.K. Postcode now is asked for everywhere for a wide variety of reasons, it took that level of familiarity decades to achieve

my3cents

ukoda wrote: »

I think they mean other areas of use not just postal addresses, the U.K. Postcode now is asked for everywhere for a wide variety of reasons, it took that level of familiarity decades to achieve

afaik the postcode came in with automated sorting. Even Blue Peter had stuff about it on the program, it was all over the news and there was a massive advertising campaign.

At the time there was no internet and communication was by phone or mail so not a lot of other opportunity for use. Your address included your postcode so of course when you phoned up to order something you were asked for your postcode.

plodder

my3cents wrote: »

afaik the postcode came in with automated sorting. Even Blue Peter had stuff about it on the program, it was all over the news and there was a massive advertising campaign.

At the time there was no internet and communication was by phone or mail so not a lot of other opportunity for use. Your address included your postcode so of course when you phoned up to order something you were asked for your postcode.

I would imagine that even with very primitive IT systems, insurance companies and others would have made extensive use of the UK postcode, right from the start and not just for addressing mail. They would have collected statistics relating to claims and organised it by postcode which allowed them to assess different kinds of risk for other households in the same areas.

ukoda

plodder wrote: »

I would imagine that even with very primitive IT systems, insurance companies and others would have made extensive use of the UK postcode, right from the start and not just for addressing mail. They would have collected statistics relating to claims and organised it by postcode which allowed them to assess different kinds of risk for other households in the same areas.

I would imagine the insurance companies here will do the same pretty quick too, the ECAD has the small areas in it allowing this kind of functionality. But this will all be done behind the scenes and we as general public will probably not know much about it

plodder

ukoda wrote: »

I would imagine the insurance companies here will do the same pretty quick too, the ECAD has the small areas in it allowing this kind of functionality. But this will all be done behind the scenes and we as general public will probably not know much about it

except they have to pay to license the ECAD, whereas this kind of analysis using an open postcode like the UK's costs nothing.

ukoda

plodder wrote: »

except they have to pay to license the ECAD, whereas this kind of analysis using an open postcode like the UK's costs nothing.

Except that kind of use incurs a licence fee in the UK too.

http://www.poweredbypaf.com/getting-started/find-a-ready-made-solution/

http://www.poweredbypaf.com/faqs/

As you know, the only thing that's free with the U.K. Postcode is the code and it's geo. nothing else. Commercial companies pay, some charities and gov agencies qualify for free PAF. But insurance companies would need to licence a product as per above.

plodder

ukoda wrote: »

Except that kind of use incurs a licence fee in the UK too.

http://www.poweredbypaf.com/getting-started/find-a-ready-made-solution/

http://www.poweredbypaf.com/faqs/

As you know, the only thing that's free with the U.K. Postcode is the code and it's geo. nothing else.

This is what's so frustrating about this, as I've explained this several times before. A UK insurance company can build up a database of its own customers' postcodes without having to license anything. I really mean nothing at all. Nothing whatsoever, of any description. You do not have to pay anyone to keep a list of postcodes.

Then the company gets claims in the door. If a large pattern of claims emerge from the same postcode, or from higher level areas, these can be assessed and risk levels established for setting future premiums. You can't do this with Eircode without licensing the ECAD (or ECAF) because :-

a) Eircodes are unique per property
b) they are random meaning the patterns aren't discernible without having the database

But you can do it in the UK without having to license anything. You don't need to know the locations or anything else about the postcodes. You can glean all of this from the structure of the code and the codes themselves.

ukoda

plodder wrote: »

This is what's so frustrating about this, as I've explained this several times before. A UK insurance company can build up a database of its own customers' postcodes without having to license anything. I really mean nothing at all. Nothing whatsoever, of any description. You do not have to pay anyone to keep a list of postcodes.

Then the company gets claims in the door. If a large pattern of claims emerge from the same postcode, or from higher level areas, these can be assessed and risk levels established for setting future premiums. You can't do this with Eircode without licensing the ECAD (or ECAF) because :-

a) Eircodes are unique per property
b) they are random meaning the patterns aren't discernible without having the database

But you can do it in the UK without having to license anything. You don't need to know the locations or anything else about the postcodes. You can glean all of this from the structure of the code and the codes themselves.

So then Royal Mail must make preciously zero income from their licenced products. Like why would anyone pay for it so? Why do they even have a product you licence.

The frustrating part is how simplistic you try to make it.

They could have a dedicated person or system in house to build their own - that costs them money

They could buy a "off the shelf" solution - that costs them money

Where exactly does this UK it's free to do it part actually come in?

Are their people who go into organisations and work these things out for free?

How exactly is a company better off money wise with the U.K. postcode than the Irish?