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Eircode - its implemetation (merged)

beveragelady

I called An Post today to try to sort out a problem with deliveries. The customer service chap was very helpful and I think it all got sorted.
The thing is, I tried to give him my Eircode because I live at a vague rural address but he said that they're not using them because the system isn't set up.
Amazed!
It's bad enough that they're no good to users of satnavs or google maps, but this is just astonishing. Can anybody explain how this could have been launched to such fanfare when it's all but meaningless?

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plodder

Irish Steve wrote: »

Mods,

Can we PLEASE either close or lock these incredibly tortuous and circuitous Postcode threads for at least the next 6 months, on the basis that they're as boring and off topic as hell right now, and becoming increasingly vacuuous in their content. I find it slightly incredible that with a general election imminent, and the number of issues that are becoming clearer by the day, the most pressing issues to discuss in Infrastructure seems to be to navel gaze about how badly or otherwise the Eircode system has been implemented.

I think it would be better to have only one Eircode thread. It's too difficult to separate the different discussions, and/or they are too easily disrupted.

People who are genuinely not interested in it, can more easily ignore one thread, and those who just want to shut all discussion on the subject down, would have less of an excuse to achieve that.

clewbays

There are quite distinct ways of implementing Eircodes. Five implementation uses that spring to mind are: as part of your address; to capture and validate your address; location finding; for analysis; and for data consistency.

The most visible implementation is on a website where you have to provide your address with a specific question looking for your Eircode – this use can be blurred if the website uses the term Postcode which is more likely if it is an international transaction. The real implementation measure is whether the Eircode appears on the item despatched to you as some websites allow you to give it but do not use it as to write to you. Use of an Eircode as part of your address can be problematic in relation to the address line placement of the Eircode. An Post’s preference is to use it as the last address line but before any country line. This may not be consistent with international norms (if such exist) hence the website may place the Eircode in a confusing position e.g. D04 A9B9 Dublin 4. December/January is probably a peak period for online purchases so An Post and couriers should be seeing increased use of Eircodes on written post.

A more intensive use is where you are asked to provide your Eircode and it is used to capture or validate your address. In this case, ECAD or its equivalent (the GeoDirectory) are being used. The validation could be done interactively as you provide your details or subsequently within the company. Examples here are for register completeness and duplication checking. This is really full use of the unique relationship between an Eircode and an address line in ECAD. The electoral register for the upcoming election to ensure that a person is only on the register once may provide an important example of the use of this functionality.

The Eircode can be used for location finding by using tools like Eircode finder or the X/Y coordinates from ECAD. The need may be to find one address or to batch and sequence deliveries. The big win here will be when Eircodes can be directly used with Google Maps. It is unfortunate that the Google Maps facility was not available at launch. An important implementation for this use is when ambulances, fire brigades, taxis etc. are using them. Some courier companies have complained that a hierarchical code would have facilitated delivery routing. Using IT software to link individual Eircodes to Electoral Divisions in the ECAD file would permit such use.

A less direct use is when the Eircode is used for market research and statistical purposes. It may have been collected for correspondence purposes but is also used for this purpose. The company here may be examining where their customers come from by using other information in ECAD such as small areas or Electoral Divisions. Maps may also be created using the X/Y coordinates in ECAD to better illustrate the data. Many organisations could use Eircodes in this manner and the more successful companies in the future may be the ones that make such use of their data.

Linking files is the area where the Data Protection Office have a requirement to ensure that any such register matching is lawful as there are temptations to do such matching to identify unlikely pairings e.g. high-value vehicles owned by social welfare recipients. The public sector will probably be the main user for this method with the DPC monitoring any such activity. This use will be innovative and create the possibility for new insights by linking data on areas such as health, education, and socio-economic background.

marmurr1916

Sam Russell

Mod: Can we leave Loc8 out of this. It is off topic by a long way.

marmurr1916

GerardKeating wrote: »

I suppose for fairness and equality, we should really have a thread bashing the Loco-8 code thingy.

Used by millions. Ask any Irish person for their Loc-8 code and they'll rattle it off as easy as their date of birth.

ukoda

GerardKeating wrote: »

Weird, for some reason, I keep thinking they are part of An Post?

No they were started by an Irish entrepreneur and then sold to RSA, then the same guy went on to start PrePay Power. Anyway this is off topic

On topic, I believe there is some sort of legislation that requires insurance companies to validate a customers postal address? I see notes on some insurance sites about this and I notice nearly all of them use address validation (geodirectory) when getting a quote, eircode will be very attractive to them for this

GerardKeating

ukoda wrote: »

I know you're joking here, but for the record, 123.ie isn't a subsidiary of An Post, it's part of RSA Group

Weird, for some reason, I keep thinking they are part of An Post?

GerardKeating

Deleted User wrote: »

There isn't really much more to be said anyway, except for the implementation by various organisations & individuals.

I suppose for fairness and equality, we should really have a thread bashing the Loco-8 code thingy.

ukoda

GerardKeating wrote: »

This cannot be true, 123 is a subsidiary of An Post, and we call know (according to the Loco-8 folks) that AN Post do not use EirCode.

I know you're joking here, but for the record, 123.ie isn't a subsidiary of An Post, it's part of RSA Group

[Deleted User]

Curb your enthusiasm there bud,

many of us don't have curbs. :P

GerardKeating

ukoda wrote: »

Found another company using address validation

https://www.123.ie/insurance/car-insurance/quote.123#/quote-form

When you get down to the address part they ask "do you know your eircode" if you click yes, then you fill it in and it validates your address, if you click no, you manually type your address and it tries to validate it and if you get a match, it includes the eircode at the end

This cannot be true, 123 is a subsidiary of An Post, and we call know (according to the Loco-8 folks) that AN Post do not use EirCode.

gctest50

I think our shiny new Eircodes should be painted on the kerbs

this sorta craic :

http://www.123curbs.com/

BowWow

Was in Revenue Online today and noticed my Property Tax details now include my Eircode.

(Apologies if this info posted previously, cant remember seeing that).

ukoda

gizmo555 wrote: »

Minister Alex White answered a written question from Deputy Michael McGrath on December 3 last, which asked inter alia, "if the [Eircode] system is being fully used by An Post".

Minister White stated "Both the CEO and Mails Operations Director of An Post have stated publicly that An Post will use Eircodes in their mail operations." (My emphasis.)

Civil servants drafting written answers are very careful and precise in their use of language, because they cannot put their ministers in the position of misleading the Dáil. I have no doubt that if Minister White had been able to say that An Post is currently using Eircodes he would have done so. Instead, he used the future tense, which would seem to indicate that An Post isn't yet using them.

https://www.kildarestreet.com/wrans/?id=2015-12-03a.789

Well there you have your answer, if they haven't already then they will. Question answered.

Have you anything to show that this has changed? Have you anything to show it hasn't happened?

Because I've provided plenty of proof that they are using eircode in their correct address website, they are publicly stating its useful via Twitter, they actively encourage people on Twitter to add it to their address.

Like I said, neither of us have insider knowledge of their mail sorting. But basing it on:

They said they will (maybe are by now)
They updated their website
They promote it on Twitter
They are a reseller of eircode solutions

I think there are definitely clear signs of use and support of eircode by An Post.

gizmo555

ukoda wrote: »

the ONLY way to know for sure if a company does or does not use something is to ask them. as I've said, both the top guy of An Post and the Ops Director of An Post have publicly stated that they DO use eircode in their mail sortation process.

Minister Alex White answered a written question from Deputy Michael McGrath on December 3 last, which asked inter alia, "if the [Eircode] system is being fully used by An Post".

Minister White stated "Both the CEO and Mails Operations Director of An Post have stated publicly that An Post will use Eircodes in their mail operations." (My emphasis.)

Civil servants drafting written answers are very careful and precise in their use of language, because they cannot put their ministers in the position of misleading the Dáil. I have no doubt that if Minister White had been able to say that An Post is currently using Eircodes he would have done so. Instead, he used the future tense, which would seem to indicate that An Post isn't yet using them.

https://www.kildarestreet.com/wrans/?id=2015-12-03a.789

marmurr1916

Sam Russell wrote: »

If you need another Eircode thread then start one. Just because it says Eircode in the title does not make it the place to dump the same old stuff as has appeared in all the Eircode threads already.

I've no interest in starting another Eircode thread - I'm quite happy with the Implementation thread.

Sam Russell wrote: »

Google and Garmin have not implemented Eircode and there is no sign of An Post using it. What more can be said?

There are plenty of signs that An Post use it. ukoda has listed them.

marmurr1916

ukoda wrote: »

the ONLY way to know for sure if a company does or does not use something is to ask them. as I've said, both the top guy of An Post and the Ops Director of An Post have publicly stated that they DO use eircode in their mail sortation process.

is this whole thread dedicated to calling these 2 people liars?

That would appear to be the case. Unless people on this thread have some insider knowledge of An Post's operations which prove that they're not using it, it should be closed down.

ukoda

the ONLY way to know for sure if a company does or does not use something is to ask them. as I've said, both the top guy of An Post and the Ops Director of An Post have publicly stated that they DO use eircode in their mail sortation process.

is this whole thread dedicated to calling these 2 people liars?

ukoda

gizmo555 wrote: »

For the purposes of sorting and delivering mail, which after all is the raison d'être of postcodes, they are.

and have you been into their sorting offices to check this? or basing it on speculation and here say?

both the CEO of An Post and their Operations Director have told us they do use it

gizmo555

ukoda wrote: »

their official twitter account telling everyone that eircode is useful, another sign?

Useful how? Not so far as faster or more accurate delivery of mail is concerned, because An Post don't use it for that purpose.

ukoda

ukoda wrote: »

Well there is a sign of An Post using it, they've updated their address checker to use it, so they aren't ignoring it really

http://correctaddress.anpost.ie/pages/Search.aspx

that shows they are telling everyone "your correct address has an eircode in it"

https://www.eircode.ie/business/feature

Also, An Post GeoDirectory is a reseller of eircode solutions, another sign?

https://twitter.com/Postvox/status/626039703842762753

their official twitter account telling everyone that eircode is useful, another sign?

gizmo555

ukoda wrote: »

Well there is a sign of An Post using it, they've updated their address checker to use it, so they aren't ignoring it really

http://correctaddress.anpost.ie/pages/Search.aspx

For the purposes of sorting and delivering mail, which after all is the raison d'être of postcodes, they are.

ukoda

If you want Siro broadband from Vodafone, they want your eircode

http://comingsoon.vodafone.ie/register/lightspeed-broadband

ukoda

Sam Russell wrote: »

If you need another Eircode thread then start one. Just because it says Eircode in the title does not make it the place to dump the same old stuff as has appeared in all the Eircode threads already.

This thread is about An Post not using Eircode but there has been few meaningful posts on this topic for some time. The debate has been falling significantly below the standard expected.

Google and Garmin have not implemented Eircode and there is no sign of An Post using it. What more can be said?

Well there is a sign of An Post using it, they've updated their address checker to use it, so they aren't ignoring it really

http://correctaddress.anpost.ie/pages/Search.aspx

Sam Russell

marmurr1916 wrote: »

Another Eircode thread set to be closed? I guess we'll end up with just the Eircode Implementation thread...

If you need another Eircode thread then start one. Just because it says Eircode in the title does not make it the place to dump the same old stuff as has appeared in all the Eircode threads already.

This thread is about An Post not using Eircode but there has been few meaningful posts on this topic for some time. The debate has been falling significantly below the standard expected.

Google and Garmin have not implemented Eircode and there is no sign of An Post using it. What more can be said?

marmurr1916

Deleted User wrote: »

There isn't really much more to be said anyway, except for the implementation by various organisations & individuals.

Indeed. Eircodes are here, they're not going away and their use is gradually increasing.

Sin é.

marmurr1916

Eventually being asked for your Eircode will become routine, just as being asked for your postcode is routine in the UK.

This will spur people to check their Eircode, further increasing its use.

It's obviously going to be a gradual,organic process.

I look forward to the 'Nobody uses Eircode' threads five years from now...

[Deleted User]

marmurr1916 wrote: »

Another Eircode thread set to be closed? I guess we'll end up with just the Eircode Implementation thread...

There isn't really much more to be said anyway, except for the implementation by various organisations & individuals.

marmurr1916

Sam Russell wrote: »

Mod: I think this thread is up for closing as it is off topic. Most posters are not aware of the charter in the sticky at the third post. It should be read prior to posting.

This is ignored by those zealous posters both for and against Eircode.

This is part of the above. If you have said it once, do not repeat it too soon after. We read it the first time, and it gets tiresome very quickly.

I will close this thread and infract the problem posters. if the level of discussion does not improve.

Another Eircode thread set to be closed? I guess we'll end up with just the Eircode Implementation thread...

BoatMad

Look eircode for better or for worse is merely a hash into the GeoDirectory, in essence its a hyper link to that address record.

That was its design brief.

In that regard it has fulfilled its design brief.

Usage will come over time. I'd say a 10 year timeframe of the more correct review period l not 6 months or a year