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Why do you hate Irish?

LeinsterDub

Given the other thread it was surprising to the level of hatred for Irish. Having been over in Wales recently the English speakers would generally be apathetic to Welsh. No one seemed to hate it. Why do people hate a language so much?

Cen faith mar is fuair a lán daoine Gaeilge?

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Dirty Dingus McGee

LordSutch wrote: »

English was by far the main form of communicatiuon in Ireland in the 1920s, surely you can't argue with that? I think you're heading down a dead end there Noddin. Del.Monte is right.

The reason for that is because Irish was actively discriminated against by the British ruling class in this country.

bmm

TG4 have the rights to show the rugby currently (Pro 12). The commentary is in Irish only . Really, really annoying when you cannot understand what is being said :mad:
On the Welsh tv channels there is an English commentary option , which seems sensible.
Why give rugby lovers another reason to hate Irish ?

Wibbs

Dirty Dingus McGee wrote: »

The reason for that is because Irish was actively discriminated against by the British ruling class in this country.

I'd say English ruling class, based in London and the Home counties. They screwed over their "own", the common Englishman often enough as well as the Scots(the land clearances were unreal and rarely enough mentioned these days) and the Welsh.

And it wasn't just the English. Guess who this is speaking;

I am sufficiently utilitarian not to regret the Irish language’s abandonment. A diversity of tongues is not of benefit; it was imposed on mankind as a curse at the building of Babel. It would be of vast advantage to mankind if all the inhabitants of the earth spoke the same language. Therefore, though the Irish language is connected with many recollections that twine around the hearts of Irishmen, yet the superior utility of the English tongue as the medium of all modern communication, is so great that I can witness without a sigh the gradual disuse of Irish.

Daniel O'Connell the Liberator. Yep. I happen to disagree with him BTW.

Regardless, it was as much economic grounds that doomed the language as the primary spoken one and that started early enough. Long before the famine. When Irish ceased to be the language of education and wider trade it was walking to the scaffold. In Tudor times Irish was both and the language of the upper classes, to the degree that Lizzie the First asked for a quick study in the language and that the gospels should be translated into it pronto. IT doesn't take that much to kill a language or injure it severely, severely enough that it ends up being a peasant language in isolated locales. There are many examples of this happening without any conspiracy required. Scots Gaelic an example. It killed off Pict and the like because it was the language of the educated and trade(mostly coming from Ireland). Cornwall is about as English a county as they come, yet Cornish is not exactly a going concern.

Dirty Dingus McGee

bmm wrote: »

TG4 have the rights to show the rugby currently (Pro 12). The commentary is in Irish only . Really, really annoying when you cannot understand what is being said :mad:
On the Welsh tv channels there is an English commentary option , which seems sensible.
Why give rugby lovers another reason to hate Irish ?

You don't need commentary to watch a sports match.

Maybe you need to lobby the Pro 12 and ask them not to sell the rights to TG4. It's an Irish language channel so they are obviously going to have commentary in Irish, it may cost them too much to have commentary in english aswell.

TheBigEvil

Dirty Dingus McGee wrote: »

Or we'd be a completely bilingual country.

I don't think we would. Knowing our lot, they would cut their nose to spite their face and outlaw the speaking of the the language of our former occupiers.

Anyway, thank fook we speak English, just go the whole hog and make Irish an optional subject, for those that would like an extra curricular activity.

Coles

TheBigEvil wrote: »

We are naturally English speaking...

'naturally'?

I thought it was in our nature to be backward, violent alcoholics with 'blinkered worldviews'?

Coles

TheBigEvil wrote: »

Anyway, thank fook we speak English...

Yeah, imagine trying to watch Sky Sports Extra Plus Plus with subtitles! And 'Celebrity Strictly Come Dancing on Ice' just wouldn't be right in anything else except English. It would be unnatural.

TheBigEvil

Coles wrote: »

Yeah, imagine trying to watch Sky Sports Extra Plus Plus with subtitles! And 'Celebrity Strictly Come Dancing on Ice' just wouldn't be right in anything else except English. It would be unnatural.

Exactly !:D

Coles

Wibbs wrote: »

" A diversity of tongues is not of benefit; it was imposed on mankind as a curse at the building of Babel. "

Daniel O'Connell the Liberator.

You actually believe that? ffs. Were you educated in Utah?

Iwasfrozen

Coles wrote: »

Yeah, imagine trying to watch Sky Sports Extra Plus Plus with subtitles! And 'Celebrity Strictly Come Dancing on Ice' just wouldn't be right in anything else except English. It would be unnatural.

I would take crap reality TV over pretentious cultural purists any day. A misplaced sense of superiority is a very unfortunate thing.

Coles

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

I would take crap reality TV over pretentious cultural purists any day.

I don't doubt that for a second.

:rolleyes:

Iwasfrozen

Coles wrote: »

I don't doubt that for a second.

:rolleyes:

Aand you prove my point. A misplaced sense of superiority is a very unfortunate thing.

Wibbs

Coles wrote: »

You actually believe that? ffs. Were you educated in Utah?

Can you actually read or is the spittle of indignation obscuring your screen? Try READING. Just to help you out as clearly there is some issue with comprehension going on, this is what I said;

Me, earlier wrote:

I happen to disagree with him BTW.

I happen to disagree with him. That's three times now. How many more repetitions will it require before it sinks in?

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

Ferris_Bueller wrote: »

How would it effect the kids and their education? I don't think it would effect their education at all, if anything I would guess it would only further their education. Maybe as some of you are saying it isn't worth the hassle of trying to revive the language to the majority, and for this reason it will probably never happen, but to say it would effect their education is untrue.

If it has no effect why do it?

Also, would the state not have a right to do that? At the moment Irish is compulsory in schools so they are already 'forcing them' to learn it.. If I stated they don't have a right to force my kids to speak English would I have a leg to stand on?

No, it wouldn't. At least it has no right to do it and call itself a free state. I don;t think it should be compulsory at all, as I've said all along, nor should any other subjects after the Junion Cert. You set up your education in the most functional and practical langauge possible, and that, I'm sorry, is English.

Do you force English on your children? You tell me - if so, why?

Coles

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

A misplaced sense of superiority is a very unfortunate thing.

You've said that twice now. Is it because you feel silly for saying that Irish is inferior to English?

Coles

Wibbs wrote: »

I happen to disagree with him. That's three times now. How many more repetitions will it require before it sinks in?

What?! Why did you quote him if you disagree with him?!

Coles

Princess Consuela Bananahammock wrote: »

English is a lifeskill [sic], irish [sic] is not. When a country is pretty muhc [sic] 100% fluent English speaking, place [sic] emphasis on a different lanaguge [sic] is impractical.

What would France be without French?

LeinsterDub

ToddyDoody wrote: »

I'm sure this has changed a bit in the last while but generally the perception has been that no-one in Dublin has any time for Gaeilge.

Based on what? There's numerous Gael schools in Dublin, clubs and Gaelic nights in Dublin.

Wibbs

Coles wrote: »

You've said that twice now.

Given your apparent lack of reading comprehension concerning other folk's clearly stated positions, I'm not surprised people have had to repeat themselves in their dealings with you.

What?! Why did you quote him if you disagree with him?!

Christ. *bangs head off desk*. For god's sake man it's called illustrating a point. You do realise that a quote may be used to illustrate an opposing position one does not agree with? Surely? Have I stumbled onto some oddball forum version of the Joe Duffy show here? And you feel you can claim some sense of superiority? *facepalm*

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

Coles wrote: »

What would France be without French?

Now a 100% fluent English speaking place...?

Beyond that, I have no idea what you mean.

Wibbs

Coles wrote: »

What would France be without French?

Try reading some history there. A good start would be around the standardisation of the French language and how so many native languages were actively killed off. Spain had similar. No English involved either.

Wibbs

Princess Consuela Bananahammock wrote: »

I have no idea what you mean.

You're not truly Irish. That's all you need to understand from this kind of Gaelgoir.

Coles

Wibbs wrote: »

Christ. *bangs head off desk*. For god's sake man it's called illustrating a point. You do realise that a quote may be used to illustrate an opposing position one does not agree with? Surely? Have I stumbled onto some oddball forum version of the Joe Duffy show here? And you feel you can claim some sense of superiority? *facepalm*

Now I'm confused. You don't agree with the quote? And you were using it to undermine your argument? Ok. I got it.

Coles

Wibbs wrote: »

Try reading some history there. A good start would be around the standardisation of the French language and how so many native languages were actively killed off. Spain had similar. No English involved either.

I'm well aware of the history, thanks. in the 19th Century less than 20% of French people spoke French. The language became an essential part of unifying the country during the Third Republic.

Wibbs

Coles wrote: »

Now I'm confused.

OK now I got it. At least you're honest. Seriously though if you show scant comprehension for how basic conversation within a debate goes then what's the point engaging with you? It's a waste of time, because you simply don't understand the basics, so it's like trying to herd cats. The thread has gone full retard for me. Though this topic inevitably does.

[Deleted User]

Anyone would.think coles was a candidate for membership of a subclass with learning difficulties eh?

Coles

Wibbs wrote: »

At least you're honest.

Thank you.

Coles

Deleted User wrote: »

Anyone would.think coles was a candidate for membership of a subclass with learning difficulties eh?

Hang on! I'm not the one who couldn't speak a language after 14 years of learning it.

:P

[Deleted User]

Coles wrote: »

Hang on! I'm not the one who couldn't speak a language after 14 years of learning it.

:P

A very specific measure of intelligence that, another would be ability to comprehend and engage in a simple online debate.

kefir32

I wonder if Coles is annoying and sanctimonious in real life as he comes across here because he's a serious wreck the head