Shrap wrote: » Nobody would object to that, if they did it in their own time and not at the expense of hours upon hours of my kids' education.
lazygal wrote: » Is there any belief or set of beliefs parents shouldn't be allowed to indoctrinate their children in?
kylith wrote: » So the schools should remain sectarian and discriminatory because parents don't care enough to put in the effort to do it themselves? And they don't have time, but somehow non-religious/non-Christian parents are supposed to have the time to drive children hours out of their way on a daily basis to go to a secular school? Schools should remain in religious control because "[parents] don't want to take the time and they have no interest in a church run system outside school hours"? Parents couldn't give a sht about their child's religious upbringing if they have to put any effort in, but it's SOOOO important to them that they get all pissy if secular education is mentioned? Tough noogies to them so. If they can't be bothered to put the effort in themselves then it's obviously not that important to them, after all, they make time for piano lessons and ballet classes and football clubs and none of those are supplied by the schools.
One eyed Jack wrote: » If I break my leg, there's not much use in sending me to a maternity hospital! Hospitals discriminate all the time on who they will and won't admit for treatment.
RainyDay wrote: » How did she get a faith as a toddler without 'any interference' from parents? Did she lick it off the stones? Of course she got the faith from her parents. Just curious - do you avail of the state subsidy to help COI families with school fees?
Swanner wrote: » You're incorrect. She didn't get from me or her mother. She may have had some influence from other family members and school but not enough for it to be a major factor. We noticed early on that she loved asking probing questions about the nature of things. Same way all kids ask questions but she just always seemed to gravitate towards some kind of spirituality. Obviously age appropriate. We responded and gave her all the facts we had to give her. Again age appropriate. As she got a bit older it became clear she was forming a faith and that has continued to strengthen over the years. She's 17 now and appears to have a strong faith of her own. That may change, it may not. She's not tied to any particular religion and she doesn't go to church or mass but she has a definite faith that neither I nor her mother have.
lazygal wrote: » Really? This is discrimination? :rolleyes::eek::D
This is nearly as hilarious as OEJ's attempts on a thread in AH to tell women how to breastfeed properly, which mainly involved not breastfeeding in front of anyone because you don't need to breastfeed in public and it's selfish to do so, and did we not know breastpumps could be used instead if we absolutely had to feed our babies in public.
One eyed Jack wrote: » It's about as discriminatory as claims that children are being discriminated against in schools with a religious ethos, because their parents who choose to enrol their children in the school, don't support it's ethos. Trapped in an online echo-chamber of emotion?
Mary63 wrote: » The Government really needs to deal with this issue and provide more schools in areas where schools are oversubscribed.
I also wish non believers would just look after their own family and get off their high horse regarding their fellow school parents.It is absolutely none of your business how other parents rear their children
lazygal wrote: » Was this a specifically Christian spirituality? What faith did she end up forming? Was it a Christian faith or did she end up gravitating towards Scientology or Buddism or something else?
One eyed Jack wrote: » I think it's more a case of those parents who have everything their own way saying tough noogies to everyone else tbh. It's unfair on those parents who are in a minority of course, but parents aren't likely to compromise their own children's education for the benefit of other parent's children.
kylith wrote: » But they are compromising their children's education! Taking half an hour a day and hours and hours during 2nd and 6th class away from teaching actual subjects in order to teach opinion is compromising their child's education! Not only that but it's been shown that children who are raised religiously have difficulty telling fact from fiction so it's also damning their critical faculties.
xband wrote: » What really gets me though is that Ireland had a history of the Church of Ireland / Anglican Church being the established church and attempting to coerce people into falling into line by controlling access to services like education and access to jobs and the establishment. Catholics and other Protestants were basically on the outside all the time. We then faught for religious freedom, equal rights and what happens? The Catholic Church jumps into exactly the same role the Anglican church had during the bad old days. The bullied becomes the bully and the society behaves exactly like pre Victorian Britian by excluding minorities from basic services. It just proves that the word "republic" was only old nonsense lip service to keep some notion of being all radical, freedom loving types alive as part of our nationalist mythology. The positions Ireland taken on this and many other issues are an utter disgrace for a so called republic about to go off waffling on about 1916. In 2016 Ireland excludes religious minorities and the non religious from public education. That's the reality of it. It's basically passive (and sometimes active) sectarianism that we accept because that's just how things always have been. Bunch of hypocrites!
Cabaal wrote: » Actually it is, its our tax money after all so we have every right to decide and to try and dictate how its spent. Only a complete idiot is ok with their tax money being spent in a manner that discriminates against children of any race, colour, religion etc.
kylith wrote: » Not only that but it's been shown that children who are raised religiously have difficulty telling fact from fiction so it's also damning their critical faculties.
Swanner wrote: » Have you a source for this kylith ?
lazygal wrote: » Nah, just more of the same 'arguments' that aren't really valid at all. Carry on posting, the points are hilarious! I'm sure there'll be advice on how we should do atheism 'properly' shortly. :pac:
One eyed Jack wrote: » As far as they're concerned though, they're not compromising their children's education as they see it, and who's opinion do you think they're more likely to go with - yours, or their own? There are plenty of posters here attended schools with a religious ethos, and it doesn't appear to have done their critical facilities any harm as adults. It's possible that this may have had something to do with the fact that children don't remain children indefinitely, and as adults are perfectly capable of making decisions for themselves and their children.
Shrap wrote: » She does. I think the study was posted in the "Hazards of Belief" thread not long ago, but I'm sure she'll find it for you.
Swanner wrote: » Fair enough. Thanks. I was researching while on the Santa thread a few weeks ago and found studies that would directly contradict this. Happy to dig them out again but the lack of clarity would certainly indicate the level of subjectivity and complexity around this topic.
Swanner wrote: » It's everyone's tax money so everyone should have a say surely ? Even those with opposing views to you.. Of course the majority will always win out in the end but that's life. No one ever said it would be fair. Sometimes we just have to suck it up and move on.
Cabaal wrote: » You don't appear to understand minority rights do you? Maybe come back when you do :rolleyes: It isn't ok for a "majority| to just just discriminate at the detriment of a minority group and thinking they can and its alright makes you a very foolish person indeed.
ABC101 wrote: » Kylith.... that must be one of the most ridiculous comments around. If you seriously believe that... then perhaps it is you who is having difficulty in separating fact from fiction / blinkered bias!
The presence versus absence of a religious education is associated with children’s conviction that ordinarily impossible events can or cannot occur in a realistic story. Thus, secular children, who had no exposure to such an education, systematically concluded that the protagonist in fantastical stories is pretend and justified that decision by reference to the impossibility of the story events. By contrast, children who had been exposed to religion via church or parochial schooling did not systematically conclude that the protagonist was pretend, and made fewer appeals to the impossibility of the story events.
