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Single life as a guy...

LordNorbury

Hi folks, just thought I'd start this thread, I'm a guy in my mid 30's and single, it occurred to me to start a general discussion on single life for guys in their 20's and 30's (and upwards!)... I'm single a few years now, after a few really long term relationships, was never married and never had kids.

I don't want this to be a thread on internet dating or how to pull women as a single guy, more about the pro's and the con's of single life, the best and the worst of it, aspirations for the future, maybe regrets about the past, what you do that is important to you to have and to enjoy your life, that is generally configured very differently from many people around you, (who at this age are generally settled down with a partner and kids)...

Just interested in generating some discussion on the subject, as your man on Star Trek says, "engage!"...

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howamidifferent

I've been single for the past 3 years after 2 long failed marraiges, early 50's and loving life at the moment. Live by myself and do as I want when I want.
Have also had several short term relationships since my teens so not beaten with the ugly stick if I do say so myself. At this point in time I wouldnt have any interest in entering another relationship. I love my own company too much.

Wibbs

Deleted User wrote: »

But perhaps as I said it is merely anecdote bunching for you that you are seeing this - or some other reason you happen to be surrounded in people who have such anecdotes where I am not. I simply do not know. But I wonder if it is _as_ common as you think - or is this anecdote bunching skewing what you perceive (or what I perceive perhaps).

The weak hen pecked husband and the harpy nagging wife is an extremely stable and universal set of themes, the ancient Greeks, Romans and Chinese all wrote of it, hell Shakespeare covered it, as did Voltaire and these were times of actual patriarchy, when men were supposed to be lords and masters, so it comes from somewhere. It's too strong a meme to be just an invention of "anecdote bunching". Yes perception will play a strong part in whether you see it strongly or not at all, as will the peers around you. This includes within a relationship. EG I didn't see the crazy in some of my long termers until they were well in the rear view mirror, when I finally realised what I thought was a terrible feeling of loss, was actually a terrible feeling of relief.

TBH I don't know(nor want) too many of the hen pecked male sort in my general orbit, but of those I did know I'd reckon at least half of the men were actually content in that role. They didn't see the browbeating and if they were on this thread they'd say they were in a great marriage. I'm not sure their wives would have agreed.

Think about it, an apparently normal guy that stays in any sort of abusive relationship at some level wants/needs to stay in it. Especially before marriage and kids. That of course complicates things especially if things change after the wedding cake is scoffed. But any guy in a non married, no kids relationship that is being nagged etc is choosing to stay, or choosing not to leave. Can be for all sorts of reasons, but that's what it boils down to.

SarahMollie wrote:

My question is, have you ever thought about dating someone older? Maybe by 5-10years? You might have a different experience

He might, but I have found that people don't really change, not after around 25 anyway, or it's a rare one that does and it usually requires a major life change. They just get better at hiding the dodgy stuff.

Fukuyama

SarahMollie wrote: »

Now I may have gotten the wrong end of the stick here, but something struck me about your posts. You're early 20's and likely most of your friends are too. Some of the negative relationship you've described seem a bit dramatic, and I probably recognize some of that stuff from my relationships at that age - everything was black or white, all or nothing, and a bit prone to dramatics. Thinking about it now it sounds exhausting.

Anyhow, I digress. My question is, have you ever thought about dating someone older? Maybe by 5-10years? You might have a different experience

I know what you mean and yes, to some extent I'd say a few of these relationships are "dramatic" but just a few. None are outright abusive or anything though. But I'd say everyone of any age group knows at least a few people in relationships like this.

The majority seem absolutely, positively "normal" and I still see aspects that I just couldn't deal with.

As other posters have said my "evidence" (I'm not even really trying to present it as such) is anecdotal. But it comes from a wide range of encounters I've had, conversations I've overheard or been in, and just things I've observed from being in the company of couples.

I have fancied and would date a slightly older woman. But, as I said, I have no drive or motivation to pursue anybody. I'm not really looking for dating advice - more so single life advice or perspectives.

For whatever reason I've lost interest in women in may ways. I'm still attracted to them and have friendships etc... But the thought of even attempting a relationship is enough to make me audibly sigh.

One thing has struck me about this thread:

There (apparently) are a lot of single women in their 30s who can't find a man. And the few single men in their 30s/40s seem to be in demand as a result (judging by the multiple posts on here). Maybe a lot of men silently have a similar mindset to myself and have taken themselves off the market. Naturally you wouldn't hear it openly discussed. I mean, there was no major war or mass emigration of males which would explain this phenomenon.

fits

Fukuyama wrote: »

There (apparently) are a lot of single women in their 30s who can't find a man. And the few single men in their 30s/40s seem to be in demand as a result (judging by the multiple posts on here). Maybe a lot of men silently have a similar mindset to myself and have taken themselves off the market. Naturally you wouldn't hear it openly discussed. I mean, there was no major war or mass emigration of males which would explain this phenomenon.

Its been a feature of Irish people for a long time. Even merriman wrote about it a few centuries ago in cuirt an mhean oiche. (apologies for lack of fadas). Just look at all the old bachelors living around the country.

I know some absolutely lovely women in their thirties. Not single by choice but it just doesn't seem to come together for them.

Cuirt an mhean oiche / written in 1700 and something.

In the first part, a young woman calls on Aoibheal declares her case against the young men of Ireland for their refusal to marry. She complains that, despite increasingly desperate attempts to capture a husband via intensive flirtation at hurling matches, wakes, and pattern days, the young men insist on ignoring her in favour of late marriages to much older women. The young woman further bewails the contempt with which she is treated by the married women of the village.

She is answered by an old man who first denounces the wanton promiscuity of young women in general, suggesting that the young woman who spoke before was conceived by a Tinker under a cart. He vividly describes the infidelity of his own young wife. He declares his humiliation at finding her already pregnant on their wedding night and the gossip which has surrounded the "premature" birth of "his" son ever since. He disgustedly attacks the dissolute lifestyles of young women in general. Then, however, he declares that there is nothing wrong with his illegitimate children and denounces marriage as "out of date." He demands that the Queen outlaw it altogether and replace it with a system of free love.

The young woman, however, is infuriated by the old' man's words and is barely restrained from physically attacking him. She mocks his inability to fulfill his marital duties with his young wife, saying that she was a homeless beggar who married him to avoid starvation. She vividly argues that if his wife has taken a lover, she well deserves one. She then calls for the abolition of priestly celibacy, alleging that priests would otherwise make wonderful husbands and fathers. In the meantime, however, she will keep trying to attract an older man in hopes that her unmarried humiliation will finally end.

Finally, in the judgement section Queen Aoibheal rules that all laymen must marry before the age of 21, on pain of corporal punishment at the hands of Ireland's women. She advises them to equally target the romantically indifferent, homosexuals, and unmarried skirt chasers who boast of the number of notches on their belts. Aoibheal tells them to be careful, however, not to leave any man unable to father children. She also states that abolishing priestly celibacy is beyond her mandate and counsels patience.

To the poet's horror, the younger woman angrily points him out as a 30-year-old, bachelor and describes her many failed attempts to attract his interest in hopes of becoming his wife. She declares that he must be the first man to suffer the consequences of the new marriage law. As a crowd of infuriated women prepares to flog him into a quivering bowl of jelly, he awakens to find it was all a terrible nightmare.

Confucius say

Fukuyama wrote: »

I know what you mean and yes, to some extent I'd say a few of these relationships are "dramatic" but just a few. None are outright abusive or anything though. But I'd say everyone of any age group knows at least a few people in relationships like this.

The majority seem absolutely, positively "normal" and I still see aspects that I just couldn't deal with.

As other posters have said my "evidence" (I'm not even really trying to present it as such) is anecdotal. But it comes from a wide range of encounters I've had, conversations I've overheard or been in, and just things I've observed from being in the company of couples.

I have fancied and would date a slightly older woman. But, as I said, I have no drive or motivation to pursue anybody. I'm not really looking for dating advice - more so single life advice or perspectives.
of even attempting a relationship is enough to make me audibly sigh.

One thing has struck me about this thread:

There (apparently) are a lot of single women in their 30s who can't find a man. And the few single men in their 30s/40s seem to be in demand as a result (judging by the multiple posts on here). Maybe a lot of men silently have a similar mindset to myself and have taken themselves off the market. Naturally you wouldn't hear it openly discussed. I mean, there was no major war or mass emigration of males which would explain this phenomenon.

Well if you look online there are tonnes of women in their 30s looking for guys so it's probably 50 50. A lot seemed to have an idea of exactly what they wanted so that put me off internet dating. Like - no offence but I'm 5'7 in heels so obviously I only want guys over 6 foot etc. my favourite ones are those who say I've no particular type but if you've got a beard and tattoos get in touch!
I'm so glad I don't have a type it must be really restrictive.

[Deleted User]

Wibbs wrote: »

It's too strong a meme to be just an invention of "anecdote bunching".

But I must point out I did not think - or say - that the dynamic in question was an invention at all - quite the opposite - I am more than aware that it is a real thing.

Rather I was suggesting that the anecdote bunching of which I speak may be responsible for how prevalent a hand full of users think that the dynamic is. The tone of one user above for example suggests he thinks it to be by far the majority situation out there in the world of relationships.

But when throwing out the term "Anecdote Bunching" I did acknowledge that it is just as likely I am the victim of it myself. I happen to be in - and surrounded by people in - relationships where everyone is very supportive of each other - and each others personal life as well as home life. Perhaps I/we are the uncommon outliers. I simply do not know.

I do know that a big part of a relationship for me is not just making the other person happy - but making them proud of me. And if the relationship _ever_ went even _slightly_ down the "Nothing I do makes them happy" route others here have described - I would simply implement the most expedient but comfortable exit strategy I could for all concerned.

Wibbs wrote: »

Think about it, an apparently normal guy that stays in any sort of abusive relationship at some level wants/needs to stay in it.

A close relative of mine was in a relationship she really really wanted out of. So of course we asked her why she did not just leave him. The idea horrified her. "Be single? Anything but that!" was generally the vibe I was getting off her. Eventually she did leave him - straight into another relationship. She basically would not leave him until she had someone to leave him for.

I fear there may be a lot of _that_ in the world. People who simply want to be in _a_ relationship regardless - and if the one they are in is not up to par they will prefer to stay in it until something else comes along rather than be alone - or risk being alone forever. As if _any_ relationship is better than no relationship at all. A bit like people not leaving one job until they find another - because of the terror of having that inbetween time of unemployment that you might not get back out of.

It is a head space I myself can not get into - but one I have seen often enough in the wider world to deny. I would happily be single if the relationship I was in stopped being a happy one. Even if I ended up dying alone. But many people are terrified by the prospect.

I guess the drive to simply not be alone in our species is a rival for power with the drive to simply be happy. And quite often it wins.

Fukuyama

fits wrote: »

Its been a feature of Irish people for a long time. Even merriman wrote about it a few centuries ago in cuirt an mhean oiche. (apologies for lack of fadas). Just look at all the old bachelors living around the country.

I know some absolutely lovely women in their thirties. Not single by choice but it just doesn't seem to come together for them.

Well then you have to wonder WHY this is the case. There's loads of single men around. They weren't killed in war like in Britain after WW1 and WW2. They can't all be anti-social losers that fell out of the ugly tree.

As I said, I may be in the minority. But it wouldn't surprise me if they actively just felt like relationships weren't for them for reasons similar to mine or others. I find it very easy to be totally alone for extended periods of time. I'm often the object of pity (even in this thread) for wanting to be alone but I save my sympathy for those who panicked and jumped on the next train that came along.

I hope I'm not making bad choices and sending myself down the wrong path. But I guess you have to go with your gut feeling on these kind of issues.

fits

Fukuyama wrote: »

Well then you have to wonder WHY this is the case. There's loads of single men around. .

I could say the same for the single fellows you know.

Confucius say

fits wrote: »

I could say the same for the single fellows you know.

Yeah but far more guys are undateable than women in general. Like a good few lads I know from childhood just turned out a bit odd and have never had girlfriends and might be nearly 40 now. You don't see it really with any of the girls I grew up with.

Fukuyama

fits wrote: »

I could say the same for the single fellows you know.

Well judging by some in this thread I'll turn 30 and have a hoard of horny women baying at my door. :eek:

Confucius say

Fukuyama wrote: »

Well judging by some in this thread I'll turn 30 and have a hoard of horny women baying at my door. :eek:

No, it's the same for me anyway, 35 and 25. Just were all a bit more haggard looking now

fits

Confucius say wrote: »

Yeah but far more guys are undateable than women in general. Like a good few lads I know from childhood just turned out a bit odd and have never had girlfriends and might be nearly 40 now. You don't see it really with any of the girls I grew up with.

Well there you are. There's a hell of a lot of undateable men out there and then so many people, (pretty much all my college class) are working abroad. These women would work in female dominated jobs as well, and wouldn't be big into partying so that probably contributes in terms of opportunities for meeting people.

howamidifferent

Confucius say wrote: »

Just were all a bit more haggard looking now

Speak for yourself son. :pac:

[Deleted User]

Fukuyama wrote: »

Well then you have to wonder WHY this is the case. There's loads of single men around.

I guess it is little more than social mathematics and probability. Some people are simply going to take longer than others to pair off - and some simply never will. And often not for want of trying. It just is what it is. There are many single people of all sexes and sexualities lamenting their singlehood - would that it were as simple as "You are single - he is single - just get it on already would you?".

Sometimes it can be really heart breaking too. I have a few single friends - but one of each sex are particularly dear to me and my friends as a whole. We love them to bits. Both of them lovely people and both of them quite attractive. And both of them are very down about being single. They have both done the speed dating - on line dating - and blind dates set up by friends and all.

_All_ of us find ourselves saying what a wonderful couple they would make. By any measure you could think of. But they simply do not connect on _that_ level with each other. They will forever be friends and nothing else.

So it really is pure maths and probability I guess. Some people will meet someone they connect with on that level quickly - some will takes a long time - and some will simply run out of time.

And - as the thread shows - some simply do not want to in the first place.

Confucius say

howamidifferent wrote: »

Speak for yourself son. :pac:

Well actually someone thought I was 27 the other day 😬

silverharp

Fukuyama wrote: »

One thing has struck me about this thread:

There (apparently) are a lot of single women in their 30s who can't find a man. And the few single men in their 30s/40s seem to be in demand as a result (judging by the multiple posts on here). Maybe a lot of men silently have a similar mindset to myself and have taken themselves off the market. Naturally you wouldn't hear it openly discussed. I mean, there was no major war or mass emigration of males which would explain this phenomenon.

I had a quick look at the stats and more men have emigrated than women since 2009 so that would have created a minor gap. but the same "shortage" is happening in the US and Britain and its down to things like the relative numbers of men and women going to college and factors like women leaving it too late , the advice seems to be (assuming they want to) is to make it a goal in their early to mid twenties. But yeah I think more guys are opting out possibly because of economic uncertainty or because of a fear of divorce which is a disaster for men although in fairness its rare enough in my circles anyway here

SarahMollie

Confucius say wrote: »

Well actually someone thought I was 27 the other day 😬

You lucky duck.

So, are you going to ask that woman on a date or is the kid a dealbreaker?

Confucius say

SarahMollie wrote: »

You lucky duck.

So, are you going to ask that woman on a date or is the kid a dealbreaker?

Well yeah we said we'd see each other again but I don't think we'll have a chance for a while with work this week and Xmas and I'm off to Copenhagen for a few days next week. I'm awful at this. If we can't meet for 2 weeks how do you stay in touch and how often? You never know I might meet the ice cool blonde girl of my dreams in Denmark

Wibbs

Deleted User wrote: »

Eventually she did leave him - straight into another relationship. She basically would not leave him until she had someone to leave him for.

It has been my experience that this is extremely weighted towards women. In my life I've known quite a few women, certainly before 30, who have dumped one guy with another on the horizon or already in play. Quite the number have even overlapped. I've had it happen to me a couple of times, both as the overlapped and the overlappee(should be a word

). I used to think it was a gender thing and it is, but for a less obvious reason. Women, young attractive women have more choice, so there's more likely to be overlap(Extremely good looking men are more likely to have this overlap too). Women are more judged for being single too which plays into it. Actually someone who is an overlapping type who has never been single is a major red flag for me. The boyfriend is something to have, a box to tick, a cardboard cutout for her ego. They're playing relationship musical chairs and just make sure you're not the guy she decides is The One(™) when she hits 35 and the music stops.

Confucius say wrote: »

Yeah but far more guys are undateable than women in general. Like a good few lads I know from childhood just turned out a bit odd and have never had girlfriends and might be nearly 40 now. You don't see it really with any of the girls I grew up with.

Nature of a sellers market. Women have more choice. However good choices are just as difficult for them, if not more. Men have a lot of advantages. For a start we can approach women. We've more years to play with to start a family and we can earn attractiveness.

Deleted User wrote: »

I guess it is little more than social mathematics and probability. Some people are simply going to take longer than others to pair off - and some simply never will. And often not for want of trying. It just is what it is.

Aye. Plus I would say that people vary in selection/fussiness[delete as applicable]. Some have a very narrow set of criteria that signal attraction for them, others much wider. I've a friend that if you sat him down with ten women he'd be into five of them, I might be into one sorta thing. And some people are just more attractive to more people so have more choice and usually can make better choices because they don't have the desperation vibe and think "oh god I must hang onto her/him, because I'll never get anyone else".

SarahMollie

Confucius say wrote: »

Well yeah we said we'd see each other again but I don't think we'll have a chance for a while with work this week and Xmas and I'm off to Copenhagen for a few days next week. I'm awful at this. If we can't meet for 2 weeks how do you stay in touch and how often? You never know I might meet the ice cool blonde girl of my dreams in Denmark

Tricky one. I'd say if you actually want to pursue her, then make a date even if its only Jan and tell her you'll see her then. Don't cut all contact, but don't get sucked into a texting loop that only as a person can only seem interesting via text for so long. Keep it light until you can meet in person

Or ya know, good luck with your future Danish Ice Queen!

SarahMollie

Confucius say wrote: »

Yeah but far more guys are undateable than women in general. Like a good few lads I know from childhood just turned out a bit odd and have never had girlfriends and might be nearly 40 now. You don't see it really with any of the girls I grew up with.

This is true. I have two uncles who are whats referred to down the country as bachelors. They live together and I don't think its don't either any favours.
One had a bit of a wobble in his mid twenties and the other took care of him. They've both effectively self disqualified from the singles market long ago, even though technically they're both single. They're both beyond the point of adapting to any other way of life at this stage. I doubt it was intentional, I think its just the way life worked out.

Sleepy

Fukuyama wrote: »

Well then you have to wonder WHY this is the case. There's loads of single men around. They weren't killed in war like in Britain after WW1 and WW2. They can't all be anti-social losers that fell out of the ugly tree.

Don't discount the social pressure on women to "marry up" either tbh.

I know quite a few women in their 30's who bemoan their single status despite it being clearly obvious why they're single: they turn their nose up at guys who don't tick enough of the boxes of the dream man they believe they're entitled to. Were these same women prepared to lower their standards to more realistic levels they would be far more likely to find a partner.

In some cases it seems to be simply a case of having watched too many Hollywood rom-coms and expecting a successful, handsome, childless, six foot two and built like an adonis chap to fall into their lives and declare their undying love with huge public displays of affection. Others are a little more realistic but rather over-value what they have to offer themselves (e.g. the single mother who won't date men with children).

It's usually far more likely to be the result of their support network than an inherent arrogance in themselves in my experience. Put a group of women together and they're far more likely to tell each other that prince charming is out there and that "what's for you won't pass you by" etc. than to encourage a friend that maybe the short, unfashionably dressed lad she's smiling at across the bar might be worth going over to chat to.

raze_them_all_

Genuinely love being signle, Friday night was with a girl and saturday night was with a different two girls, Not many women in a relationship would be for that, Also I like being able to do what I want, disappear for a few days without having to explain myself

SarahMollie

raze_them_all_ wrote: »

Genuinely love being signle, Friday night was with a girl and saturday night was with a different two girls, Not many women in a relationship would be for that, Also I like being able to do what I want, disappear for a few days without having to explain myself

Nothing like a bit of anonymous self praise/spoofing/whatever on the internet!

:):)

Confucius say

SarahMollie wrote: »

This is true. I have two uncles who are whats referred to down the country as bachelors. They live together and I don't think its don't either any favours.
One had a bit of a wobble in his mid twenties and the other took care of him. They've both effectively self disqualified from the singles market long ago, even though technically they're both single. They're both beyond the point of adapting to any other way of life at this stage. I doubt it was intentional, I think its just the way life worked out.

That's bloody heartbreaking for some reason :'(

raze_them_all_

SarahMollie wrote: »

Nothing like a bit of anonymous self praise/spoofing/whatever on the internet! :):)

Not self praise, Someone asked for pro's cons, The ability to have random things like that is a big plus for me. I've been in relationships and I can't disappear for no reason or it's selfish, I can't hook up with girls I want to hook up with.

In college I hooked up with a girl who kept showing up to my door when I made it clear I didn't want anything more, that is also a con more likely to run into people who are odd

Peist2007

Fukuyama wrote: »

Well then you have to wonder WHY this is the case. There's loads of single men around. They weren't killed in war like in Britain after WW1 and WW2. They can't all be anti-social losers that fell out of the ugly tree.

Interesting how the reason why is thrown back on men to answer

Fukuyama

Peist2007 wrote: »

Interesting how the reason why is thrown back on men to answer

I feel like some of the female posters are misinterpreting what I and others are saying about women. This isn't an issue to be solved or one that can even be fully understand. It's just the way people's lives can go by choice or not, and for better or worse.

Thread is titled "Single life as a guy" not "Lets figure out why people are single and tell them whats wrong with it".

kunst nugget

SarahMollie wrote: »

Nothing like a bit of anonymous self praise/spoofing/whatever on the internet! :):)

If you're happy to accept what I say at face value, then why not raze_them_all_? If that's what makes him happy, that's great for him.

Peist2007

Fukuyama wrote: »

I feel like some of the female posters are misinterpreting what I and others are saying about women. This isn't an issue to be solved or one that can even be fully understand. It's just the way people's lives can go by choice or not, and for better or worse.

Thread is titled "Single life as a guy" not "Lets figure out why people are single and tell them whats wrong with it".

Indeed. Is it terrible to point out that most women are just unbelievably disappointing to talk to? It genuinely gladdens my heart when i meet a truly interesting lady. But i can count on one hand the amount of times it happens. Most of the time it is gym, night out, the girls, x-factor / strictly on a loop