La Fenetre wrote: » What right has anyone to prevent already existing human life from further brain development, never mind terminating it ?
Delirium wrote: » Well for a start, if all foetus are not to be impeded from developing that means all frozen embryos must be implanted ASAP. That is not something that I can support, much like I don't support forcing a woman to carry a pregnancy against her will. One consequence of this is that it means it stops a person coming into existence. But until we can transplant embyros to another womb, I can't see any way of avoiding that scenario.
La Fenetre wrote: » You've jumped back from 26 weeks, to 13 weeks, to 5 weeks, and now to frozen embryo's. The actual question you were asked, and keep avoiding, is about all unborn children : Again, what right has anyone to prevent already existing human life from further brain development, never mind terminating it ?
La Fenetre wrote: » Again, what right has anyone to prevent already existing human life from further brain development, never mind terminating it ?
Delirium wrote: » Freedom of conscience. Not everyone agrees that a fertilized egg is a person, so why should we impose one groups perspective on the other? I'm merely advocating that people, be they pro-life or pro-choice, have the freedom to follow their own conscience with regards to having an abortion. And what does it matter what stage of development I reference given that you view them all as the same with regard to abortion?
130Kph wrote: » A pregnant woman is 100% sovereign (well, she is in a civilised society).
La Fenetre wrote: » And when society also see's through the medieval practice of abortion for what it is, the extermination of unborn children and human life, then it'll be truly civilized.
frag420 wrote: » Been happening long before the medieval period....
La Fenetre wrote: » Human life is human life, it doesn't matter when you try to get away with terminating it for doing nothing wrong other than daring to exist, or how you dress it up. Either you respect others rights to human life or you don't.
Delirium wrote: » and yet ironically as nations become more civilized, they remove restrictions to abortion. Would seem to contradict your notion that it's the uncivilzed that engage in abortion.
MrPudding wrote: » What someone should do (I don't have time right now, but might tomorrow) is compile two lists of countries. One list where abortion is allowed and one where it isn't. Then we can look at those lists and see which one we think is more civilised. Not very scientific, I know, but could be interesting. I suspect that, with a few exceptions Ireland won't be in exalted company. MrP
La Fenetre wrote: » So you define "personhood" as citizenship ?
La Fenetre wrote: » So why does that make something ok ?
Delirium wrote: » A 1 day old foetus is not an "other", it has yet to develop into an "other". People disagree with your assertion that a human being exists from fertilisation, and you don't respect their right to Freedom of Conscience. You want all pregnant women to be compelled to life according to your worldview. How is that respecting those women's human rights
Delirium wrote: » you don't respect their right to Freedom of Conscience.
Delirium wrote: » How is that respecting those womens human rights?
La Fenetre wrote: » Human life factually and biologically exists from fertilisation, it doesn't matter who tries to deny and / or hide that biological reality and biological fact.http://www.biologyreference.com/La-Ma/Life-Cycle-Human.html
How do you truthfully respect the right of any human life, when you aren't prepared to respect them at all stages of their life ?
La Fenetre wrote: » And yet we all know that abortion is nothing new in the history of the world, As nations evolved to becoming more civilized they brought in laws against killing unborn children in their mothers womb, as they slip back towards eventual destruction, they'll remove them. There's no better way for a warped civilisation to self exterminate, than to start insidiously promote the extermination of their own young when they are at their most vulnerable and defenceless. It'll make a good history lesson when it has to be explained in the future to a more developed human civilization, that previous human civilizations used to actually advocate killing their young in the womb.
That isn't correct, what is correct is I'm honest enough to acknowledge that there are two human lives involved not one, and freedom of conscience doesn't endow the right to kill another human life.
Delirium wrote: » We haven't established that a human being exists from fertilisation. That is part of the reason that I don't believe a human being exists from fertilisation. Can you explain to me why the above is to be considered a human being? If not, then when did it stop being a human being
ABC101 wrote: » All humans start their existence as a fertilised human egg. From those who are conceived naturally to those eggs fertilised via IVF. There is no other way for a human to commence their existence other than as a fertilised human egg. Therefore I believe a fertilised human egg is human, it is a human being in its most basic undeveloped state.
volchitsa wrote: » So should we close down all IVF clinics immediately then? Or at least force them to stop selecting from among the embryos any particular cycle has given, and instead make them implant all of them into women rather than choosing to pour any superfluous embryos down the drain? Why don't all IVF embryos have a right to life?
or suggested that women be impregnated against their will.
Overheal wrote: » That's how many would view an unplanned pregnancy.
Delirium wrote: » And does that mean then that you think the embryo/foetus should be protected from fertilisation? What is your stance on IVF?
ABC101 wrote: » If you accept the fact that a fertilized human egg is a human in its most basic form physically, then technically it stands to reason it should be protected by law.
Delirium wrote: » I'd dispute that it is 'fact'. Anyways, does that mean you think IVF ,the morning after pill, abortion pill should all be illegal since a fertilised egg should be protected by law?
